Hey all, this is the 2nd time I've had this problem, 1st time it occured was from under training
before entering a 10km race. Went to the doctor he said I shouldn't worry about it?
Anyways my problem is this, my left forefoot (i think that's what it's called) is experiencing some
inflamation and pain. I dont notice it when I run, but after my run I do and when on the days I dont
run it's noticiable at times.
I started running again a month ago and just run my 4km loop (various terrain, hills, etc.). I
havent increased my mileage or added stress to my routine, but my foot is hurting again.
What could cause this? Maybe I need to replace my shoes? I have had them since april 2001 but I
have had long periods of no running (5 months off). And the longest runs I go on are the
aforementioned 4km.
The shoes Im using are NB 763 which I purchased at a running store.
I've attached a picture of my foot indicating exactly where the pain is occuring.
http://geocities.com/vanbiesbrouck34/pain.jpg
try to copy and paste the link if it doesnt show.
Any input much appreciated!
PS: first time I went to the doctor, he said it wasnt mortons neuroma
In article <1ea69vgg44bavh87g1018d560hi2br5mc6@4ax.com>, vanbiesbrouck34
<vanbiesbrouck34@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> http://geocities.com/vanbiesbrouck34/pain.jpg
If y ou are landing on the back of the heel of the shoe, you could be slapping the ball of the foot
down with each step causing the pain you describe.
Or it may be something completely different.
Here are some thoughts from a previous post.
In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Adalio,
Hope this gives you some assistance. Oz
Summary: Understand and Prevent Plantar Fascia Injury
Here's some ideas on how to understand the plantar fascia and the muscles that effect it. Then some
hints on how to prevent injury to the plantar fascia by using some exercises for better balance
Bruce Abrams wrote:
> Thursday night I did 6 miles at roughly a 9:00 minute pace. Took Friday &
Saturday off and did 4 on Sunday at about a 10 min pace (there was a light coating of snow on the
ground.) I felt great yesterday morning and worked out on the cross trainer at the gym for 40
minutes. About 10 yesterday morning I got up to get some water andhad a very sharp pain in the
bottom of my foot, kind of where the front of my heel meets the back of my arch. It hasn't gone
away or gotten worse and doesn't hurt if I'm just sitting, and doesn't hurt if I walk on my
forefoot only. But, as soon as there's any weight placed on my whole foot, it feels like a knife
cutting. Any ideas?
Some Folklore on Understanding and Preventing Injury to the Plantar Fascia
c.2000, 2002 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.
Dedicated to Doug, Mike, Denny, Robert and You Friends who continue to question the answers of
answered questions and unquestioned beliefs.
1. The Stirrup Muscles (Peroneus and the Posterior Tibialis) Are There to Protect the Plantar Fascia
When the peroneus longus and medius on the outside of the lower leg and the posterior tibialis along
the inside of the lower leg, behind the shin bone become weakened or chronically tight, these
muscles, often called the stirrup muscles since they invert and evert the foot, don't act as they
should. This problem with these muscles can allow the plantar fascia-which is suppose to hold the
arch of the foot in place-to take the pressure because the stirrup muscles aren't working.
This is one reason some coaches have runners balance on one foot on a two by four or perpendicular
to a step and bending the knee a inch or two. This is the reason you see all the balance boards and
balance tubes being advertised.
Some coaches won't have their students even think of doing speed training until they can balance on
one foot with no vibrations or trembling of the ankle.
Other coaches have the individual lift off the heels about an inch and balance on the ball of the
big toe and the next two toes. They then while keeping the body erect bend the knees and lower
themselves as far as comfortably able and then back up. They do several repetitions. Gradually they
are able to balance as they go all the way down and then back up.
The plantar fascia is taking the slack when the stirrup muscles are not working correctly
and properly.
The above is folklore. If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't work, then give it neither energy
or added thought just find someone who makes sense and whose folklore works for you....and use it.
Or create your own and share it on rec.running to see it stands the test of being questioned.
2. Some Folklore to Relieve the Pain in the Arch
Next, I would get a piece of water hose about 2 feet long. While standing with your feet straight
ahead i.e. | | and not \/ easily move from one foot to the other with the hose ---|--|---- in the
middle of the arch. Step on it so as to not create pain but to see how tender the arch/plantar
fascia is.
Start behind the ball of the foot and stepping from foot to foot, work down slowly so that foot
starting behind the ball while stepping on the hose works its way down so that the foot is stepping
on the hose just in front of the heel
With socks on, stand on a stair with the balls of the feet over the edge. (you are facing down
stairs) Slowly commence wiggling the toes and slide one foot slowly down the edge of the step. As
the foot slides down the edge of the step you can put more pressure on the outside of the arch but
just enough to feel the tightness...and NOT to create any pain.
As the arch slides down the edge of the step, the toes will be pointed toward the step below at a 45
to 60 degree angle.
|
-\ Side view of the foot sliding down the edge of the step.
These are two pieces of folklore that have created numerous miracle cures from extreme
tightness and pain.
Let us know if they are of help to you.
If you check out http://www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp the same sliding downward motion of the calf can
help loosen the calf muscles and alleviate the pain experienced by many in the Achilles Tendon.
Remember this is GAPO folklore. If it works for you use it. If it doesn't work, or doesn't make
sense, then don't give my folklore any energy, time or consideration. Find someone that makes sense
and whose folklore works for you...when you use it.
3. Some Exercises to Strengthen the Stirrup Muscles and Protect the Plantar Fascia
Here's an exercise to help work these muscles Posterior Tibialis and Peroneus (stirrup muscles)
which help stabilize the ankle and are suppose to be working so that the plantar fascia doesn't have
to take any excessive strain.
Stand with feet about four inches apart so that the feet are || and not \/.
Bend knees and place left foot so it is straight ahead and left heel is about 6 to 10 inches ahead
of the right toe...and still maintaining the four inches apart.
| =left foot
...| =rt. foot
Allow your legs to straighten and shift weight so that weight is between the two feet.
Lift onto the balls of the feet so that the heels are off the ground three-quarters of an inch.
While on the balls of the feet, you should be able to wiggle your toes to prove you're balanced on
the ball of the foot. (That leaning forward so that the toes have to dig in can be one of the causes
of hammer toes.)
Keep your body erect, hands resting at the sides of the body, eyes ahead and on the horizon, and
head erect.
Keeping your body erect and balanced between the two feet, slowly lower the body as far as
comfortable. At first you may need to touch the back of a chair, or wall, or table with one hand
to maintain balance. At first you may not be able to go down very far because of tightness in
the knees.
Do 10 bends with the left foot forward and then 10 bends (as far down so that there is no knee
strain) with the right foot forward.
Do twice a day.
Each day add another single bend of the knees until you get to twenty. Great little exercise while
waiting in lines.
As you get better you'll find that you can go down deeper and that also you don't wobble as much.
The muscles you're using are the two muscle groups which keep you from overpronating: the peroneus
and the posterior tibialis. You are also working the shin and calf plus the bending of the knees
with the body erect allows for the elasticity of the knee joints and the flexibility of the thighs.
See the Mensendieck post at the bottom to purchase one of the reference books I've used for the
past 20 years.
Here's another reference book for your running library that you will use for years to come. If you
want to purchase a copy of one of the books that I still use as a guide to answering questions and
understanding running problems, send $15 which covers the price of the book and shipping/handling.
The book is: Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention and Correction, for Running Athletes and Joggers
c. John Jesse, 1977.
Make out the $15 check or money order to: IAM or Int'l Assoc. of Marathoners
d/o Ozzie Gontang 2903 29th Street San Diego, CA 92104
John Jesse was a team mate at USC with Payton Jordon who was the US Olympic head track and field
coach in 1968. John wrote this book for you and me, so that we could understand through popular
language, and with scientific and technical language kept to a minimum but using diagrams,
illustrations or short glossaries so we the laymen could understand should we want to delve deeper.
Excerpt from the Intro:
"Three of the four hidden factors (of injury) - muscular imbalance, postural faults, and foot faults
- are so common among the general population that it is doubtful whether any young athlete enters
the field of athletic competition without being affected to a lesser or greater degree by one or
more of them."
"The writer (John Jesse) believes a more detailed and complete discussion of these factors and of
the methods of correcting them or preventing their further development will enable the coach,
trainer, and athlete to cope with them early in the young athlete's career. It will enable the
athlete to reduce to a minimum the number of roadblocks and setbacks he(she) suffers during training
and in pursuit of his(her) goals."
"The information presented here should be of great value to the several million physical fitness
joggers and runners in the population, because the book is aimed at providing understandable answers
to all injuries that interrupt their progress toward attainment of an increased level of
cardiovascular fitness, or that interfere with the psychological satisfactions obtained from
engaging in such activities."
"The human body supports itself against gravity, segment upon segment, relying on the muscles and
ligaments that cross the joints, along with postural reflexes, to maintain an erect position and
proper body alignment. Hence, there has to be a total or "holistic" approach to prevention and to
correction of the hidden factors mentioned above. The reader must integrate his/her thinking to a
total body concept."
Adalio,
This post about the Mensendieck may be of helpfrom a few days ago may also obe of help:
[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for
details. ]]
In article <3C73625D.7060108@ithics.com>, Nic Wiseman <nw@ithics.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> some of you may remember me asking about shin splints on this service a couple of weeks ago. Well,
> I did my first 10K in 1:02:50, quite a slow time, but was my first in five years--and I've only
> been running again since October.
>
> Anyway, last night I visited a podiatrist who videoed me in bare feet and in my Nike shoes. She
> came to the conclusion that I have . Apparently my feet roll so much that the shin pains I get are
> due to overly stretching the muscle at the front of the shin, it also expalins my niggly knees!
>
> One thing she also said was that Mitzuno shoes are rubbish, as are Puma, and Fila. So, it was a
> relief to get some kind of diagnosis, even though I had just purchased a new pair of Nike Air,
> which she said would do very nicely as a pair of slippers.
>
> Just thought you might be interested in my little tale. Thanks to Ozzie for his help, your tips
> help also.
>
> Nic
Nic,
So, Oz, with that title: "Diagnosis without Understanding is Sharing Ignorance" tell us how you
really feel about this issue?
Just a dialogue with my self-righteousness, Nic. Just making visible my biases and assumptions. As
I've repeated numerous times here at rec.running, my mentor, Pat Murray's words continually ring in
my ears: "Oz, you can only educate yourself. The better you educate yourself, the more it allows
others to educate themselves."
That's why the folklore and sharing of Denny, Sam, Patrick, Tim, Doug and so many others plus the
great questions from so many other rec.runners makes rec.running such a great place to hang
around....and educate myself. So many here have driven into the heart, fabric and culture of
rec.running: Above and beyond answering questions, we're here to question answers....no matter
who gives it.
As a longtime friend Gautama Buddha said recently:
Don't believe in anything merely because it is said, nor in traditions because they have been handed
down to us from ancient times. Don't believe in rumors that you hear. Don't believe in the writings
of wise men and women because these sages wrote them. Don't believe in whatever fancies even when we
suspect they were inspired in us by God. Don't believe in some inferences from some half-baked
assumption we made. Don't believe is what seems to be of analogical necessity. Don't put your belief
in the mere authority of our teachers and masters.
Rather believe when the writing, doctrine, or what they say is corroborated by reason and
consciousness.
With that being said, here's a suggestion to help you corroborate through your own reason and
consciousness.
A great book is by a mother/daughter team who both graduated from the Mensendieck Institute
in Holland.
You can purchase their book:
Mensendieck Your Posture and Your Pains Ellen B. Lagerwerff and Karen Perlroth
The book is $14+ $3 for shipping and handling In CA there's sales tax. Send your check or
money order to:
Mensendieck Enterprises
d.A. Box 19450 Stanford, CA 94309-9450
In this book Mensendieck Technique 11: Ankle Conditioners Supination and Pronation Plantar Flexion
and Dorsiflexion Mensendieck Technique 14: Standing Erect on the Bases of the Big Toes Mensendieck
Technique 15: Ankle Carriage
As stated on the dustcover blurp: "This volume shows how to shape up your posture, and release your
muscular discomforts, through the application of plain common sense." Mensendieck takes the idea
that no matter where anyone is from rehabilitation to world class Olympian, these simple movement
patterns and exercise techniques can be practiced to achieve the grace that the body can have.
Mensendieck talks about stirrup muscles (the peroneus and the posterior tibialis) and shows through
the exercises how to strengthen those muscle groups.
The book delivers, and has for me since I discovered in back in the late 70's.
If anything, this is a gift to rec.runners whose orthopedists and podiatrists say: "You have severe
pronation and need to use motion control shoes." "Your pronation problem is so bad. You need to
never run again."
Rec.running is about mindful and mindless running First being mindful that running as a movement can
be graceful and not destructive. Mindless that once one continues to play and practice good form and
style it becomes a habit...a lifelong habit.
Not giving my power away, but I do get upset at professionals that tell us this is the diagnosis,
but are unable to give us the insight/story to understand what's going on. To say that the answer
is "use motion control shoes" in my mind begs the question: What can I do to my body to correct
the over pronation issue? The other part of the equation is that most of us would rather have
someone tell us what's wrong and get some panacea they prescribe, than to create the folklore to
prove them wrong.
Give a man a fish and he can survive for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can survive for
a lifetime.
Give a man a motion controlled shoe and he can run until the problem can't be corrected and he must
stop running. Teach a man the motions to control his running body and the muscles and posture
required, and he can run injury-free barefoot or racing flatted for a lifetime
. It's not the recipe, it's the cook. Lee Thayer
--
In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
Thanks for the article Ozzie, but how should I be concerned then?
I dont think it's the back heel landing first because if it was, then shouldn't both my feet be
experiencing the same pain?
On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 02:55:00 GMT, Ozzie Gontang <gontang@electriciti.com> wrote:
>In article <1ea69vgg44bavh87g1018d560hi2br5mc6@4ax.com>, vanbiesbrouck34
><vanbiesbrouck34@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> http://geocities.com/vanbiesbrouck34/pain.jpg
>If y ou are landing on the back of the heel of the shoe, you could be slapping the ball of the foot
>down with each step causing the pain you describe.
>
>Or it may be something completely different.
>
>Here are some thoughts from a previous post.
>
>In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
>Clinic, est. 1975
>
>Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Ozzie wrote:
>1. The Stirrup Muscles (Peroneus and the Posterior Tibialis) Are There to Protect the Plantar
> Fascia
>
>When the peroneus longus and medius on the outside of the lower leg and the posterior tibialis
>along the inside of the lower leg, behind the shin bone become weakened or chronically tight, these
>muscles, often called the stirrup muscles since they invert and evert the foot, don't act as they
>should. This problem with these muscles can allow the plantar fascia-which is suppose to hold the
>arch of the foot in place-to take the pressure because the stirrup muscles aren't working.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Oz, I read this with a great deal of interest. You know about my forefoot problem. I
have never heard of forefoot pain caused by the plantar fascia. The plantar fascia can explain heel
pain, but, forefoot pain? I would love it if this could unlock some answers for me (my problem
continues to get worse, with no running and only minimal activity). It has been more than 7 months
since my "morton's neuroma" surgery, and I am far worse than I was before surgery. Anyway, I read
your post with interest, and I tried this balancing act. I could hold my balance on the left side
for a minute--on the right side, it was futile. Thus, my muscles aren't working? There definitely
was a huge difference. Might this be connected to my forefoot problem? Mary
