any fastish marathoners with not-so-high mileage?
View Full Version : any fastish marathoners with not-so-high mileage?
Once again, I guess I have to define "fastish" somehow,...for the sake of my question here, let's
say a marathon pace under 7:30, so something like 3:15 or faster finishing time...
Assuming a a fairly typical 'medium difficulty' course,
I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
a) practically unheard of
b) possible but quite unlikely
c) fairly common
d) happens all the time
I know lots of people tend to stress quantity over quality, but at the same time, I don't seem to
ever hear about fast marathoners who don't put in some pretty serious mileage. I assume that's
probably not a coincidence...
Is there such a thing as a decent general guideline as to how many mpw one should expect to run in
order to run a certain range of finishing times? Obviously this can't apply to everyone, as we're
all different, but something that is likely to apply to the 'average' semi-serious, non-competitive,
non-gifted runner.
Or does average training volume just vary way too much from person to person, even amongst those
runners who finish in very similar times?
TIA
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com (http://www.uncensored-news.com/) <><><><><><><>
The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><
I've run 9 marathons in the 3:07 to 3:20 range on an average of 30 miles per week. My "high" mileage
weeks are in the low 50's, but for the 3-4 months before most marathons my overall average is
usually right around
30.
Any faster and I know I will need more mileage and, probably more importantly, a major lifestyle
change to find enough time for it.
jake lee wrote:
>
> I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
>
> a) practically unheard of
> b) possible but quite unlikely
> c) fairly common
> d) happens all the time
Last year, my typical training week was somewhere around 30mpw (3 runs - 1 fast, 1 long, 1
something), year total about 1250miles (had two months off running). I finished marathon in October
in 3:04. Then, statement A is incorrect. I do also some crosstraining (biking, xc-skiing and
swimming) and i'm a bike commuter (about 12miles per day). Thus, high running mileage is not the
_only_ way to "fastish" marathons.
hampi (male, 34yrs)
"jake lee" <none@nope.com> wrote in message news:<3e934502$1_2@news5.uncensored-news.com>...
> I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
> a) practically unheard of
> b) possible but quite unlikely
If the 40mpw is not the average, but the maximum, IŽd say
a) or b).
> c) fairly common
If it is the average, IŽd have to pick c) - after some hesitation; "certainly not uncommon" wouldŽve
been an obvious choice.
I have it on reliable anecdotal evidence that sub-3 times have been done on as low as a 55km average
- but including several 80+km weeks and one 100+km week. (The person in question did have a number
of training years and three marathons, two of them in sub-3, already behind him.)
> Is there such a thing as a decent general guideline as to how many mpw one should expect to run in
> order to run a certain range of finishing times?
I vaguely remember seeing one, but I can only recall the part that interested me at the time:
70-80km to have a realistic go at a sub-3.
ThereŽs also a rule of thumb for a minimum mileage at competitive (IŽd assume 2:50 and below) level:
somewhere between 2x26 and 3x26 miles.
> Or does average training volume just vary way too much from person to person, even amongst those
> runners who finish in very similar times?
Above three hours, IŽd certainly think so; youŽll have "sub-3 quality" runners doing well with
little and "over
3:30 runners" doing PBs with a lot of miles etc.
Anders
PS you might like to calculate the mileage of the "non-mega- mile" training program(s) for 3:00
marathons youŽll get at http://www.runirina.com (http://www.runirina.com/)
jake lee wrote:
> I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
>
> a) practically unheard of
> b) possible but quite unlikely
> c) fairly common
> d) happens all the time
If you looked at a volume of runners you would find the answer is b. Of course you will find
anecdotal reports to show it is not impossible. Much of this depends on raw talent and speed plus
the quality not just the number of miles. A friend on mine at age 51 ran 2:59 on 30 per week of
quality miles. I ran 3:0n's on 45 per week but they hurt like hell and I took many weeks to recover.
--
Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben Doug Freese
dfreese@hvc.rr.com
"jake lee" <none@nope.com> wrote in message news:<3e934502$1_2@news5.uncensored-news.com>...
> Once again, I guess I have to define "fastish" somehow,...for the sake of my question here, let's
> say a marathon pace under 7:30, so something like 3:15 or faster finishing time...
>
> Assuming a a fairly typical 'medium difficulty' course,
>
> I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
>
I've broken 3 on around 55 mpw. But I wouldn't call a 3 hour marathon fast.
>
> I know lots of people tend to stress quantity over quality, but at the same time, I don't seem to
> ever hear about fast marathoners who don't put in some pretty serious mileage. I assume that's
> probably not a coincidence...
No not a coinsidence. If you don't do the mileage you don't get results.
>
> Is there such a thing as a decent general guideline as to how many mpw one should expect to run in
> order to run a certain range of finishing times?
The guidline for everybody is not to train that you can't recover. The better you can recover the
more you can run and the more you can run the faster you become (that's kinda poetic).
> Obviously this can't apply to everyone, as we're all different, but something that is likely to
> apply to the 'average' semi-serious, non-competitive, non-gifted runner.
I'd make the break between those who want to finish a marathon vs. those who want to finish a
marathon as fast as they can. In my own case I never ran a marathon as fast as I could so there is
always a gray area.
> Or does average training volume just vary way too much from person to person, even amongst those
> runners who finish in very similar times?
Variety is the spice of life. This is more true (what laws of logic did I just break?) for shorter
distances. But you'll find the longer the race the more weekly miles put in. There is probably more
variety in the length of the long run.
my $0.02 Andy
>
> TIA
I ran 2:52 on a high of 63 mpw. People who run sub-3 on low mileage are people who have a lot of
underdeveloped potential, not people who have some sort of miracle low-mileage training plan...that
just doesn't work for the marathon. As evidence, when I kicked the mileage up to 70-80 avg with a
high week of 93 I ran mid-2:29. Andy Hass
On 8 Apr 2003 21:54:10 GMT, "jake lee" <none@nope.com> wrote:
>Once again, I guess I have to define "fastish" somehow,...for the sake of my question here, let's
>say a marathon pace under 7:30, so something like 3:15 or faster finishing time...
>
>Assuming a a fairly typical 'medium difficulty' course,
>
>I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
>
>a) practically unheard of
>b) possible but quite unlikely
>c) fairly common
>d) happens all the time
>
>I know lots of people tend to stress quantity over quality, but at the same time, I don't seem to
>ever hear about fast marathoners who don't put in some pretty serious mileage. I assume that's
>probably not a coincidence...
>
>Is there such a thing as a decent general guideline as to how many mpw one should expect to run in
>order to run a certain range of finishing times? Obviously this can't apply to everyone, as we're
>all different, but something that is likely to apply to the 'average' semi-serious,
>non-competitive, non-gifted runner.
>
>Or does average training volume just vary way too much from person to person, even amongst those
>runners who finish in very similar times?
>
>TIA
Looking at this from a slightly different perspective, are you speaking of running as your
only workout? If yes than I suspect some/many people may be able to run a low 3'ish on 30-40
miles a week. However as some other people stated they are probably closer to the upper end
of the gifted runner and would probably go much faster with more training. On the other hand
I know a few people that have a much larger training volume, do alot of biking and swimming.
These same people only do roughly 30 miles a week and can fairly consistantly run
3:15-3:30 at the end of an Ironman. I suspect these people's other training suports the aerobic
system needed to run a fast marathon. The minimal running they do simply "toughens" the muscles
for the pounding. Many of these people spend 5-7 hours on long bike rides at a fairly high aerobic
zone, get of the bike and feel fine because of the lack of pounding. This also allows them to
recover much quicker than from a 2.5-3 hour run and move onto another workout.
~Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com (http://www.uncensored-news.com/) <><><><><><><>
>The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><
"jake lee" <none@nope.com> wrote:
>I'm curious if finishing in the low 3:00's (or faster) on close to 40mpw is:
>
>c) fairly common
Hahaha! Fairly Steve Common in any case :-D Is 48 close to 40?
Here are the stats for the 12-week schedule leading up to the marathon
(2:55) on November, 24.
Runs Rests Hrs/w km mi Av. km/h 7 1 7:15 87 54 12,0 6 2 6:40 81 50 12,0 5 2 5:30 69 43 12,5 (21k
race Sun: PB 1:21:59) 8 1 8:00 97 60 12,0 (10k race Sun: PB 36:41) 5 2 5:30 71 44 13,0 4 3 6:10 72
44 11,5 (2h15 easy on Sat + LSD 2h10 Sun) 6 1 7:15 89 55 12,0 (hilly 18k race, Sun: 3rd overall) 4 3
3:50 52 33 13,5 6 1 7:25 93 58 12,5 5 2 5:05 66 41 13,0 (9k+ race Sun: ~=36:20 for 10k) 6 1 6:10 75
47 12,0 5 2 5:50 75 46 12,5 (marathon Sun: 2:55:00)
---------------------
6 2 6:15 77 48 12,5 (averages)
Typical weeks comprised:
2 or 3 "speed" sessions:
- hill repeats (first 3 weeks) or vVO2max on Tuesday
- threshold on Thursday
- accelerating from LSD to 10k pace over 50'-60', on Saturday
2 or 3 recovery runs (5'30/km=8'50/mi):
- Monday and Wednesday
One "long" run (max 2h40, min 1h40), at 12-13km/h.
Any use?
I agree with many other posters that cross training will play a large roll in the "how many miles"
question. There was a time when I only biked. Hadn't really run in 2 years or so. Woke up 1 morning
and ran 17 miles. It hurt like hell by the end, but point being, the biking obviously played a role.
It seems like most of the elite have high mileage, but do absolutely nothing else but run (seems a
bit boring to me).
Also, don't get too obsessed with weekly mileage. What about weekly time running? Example: a fast
runner may do 70 miles in 7 hours of weekly training. Where as someone else may do 70 miles in 11
hours of training. I think my point is clear. Dan Barger, ultra running elite, says he never runs
"junk" miles - quality not quantity is a better measure of being able to run FAST.
ahass@dontspamumich.edu wrote:
>I ran 2:52 on a high of 63 mpw. People who run sub-3 on low mileage are people who have a lot of
>underdeveloped potential, not people who have some sort of miracle low-mileage training plan...that
>just doesn't work for the marathon. As evidence, when I kicked the mileage up to 70-80 avg with a
>high week of 93 I ran mid-2:29.
Wow! It would me nice if a 2:55 on 48mpw would equate to a 2:29 for me too, if I bump up to 70mpw
:-)) Oh well. Back to the land of dreams.
Very possible. Every knows the "gifted" runners in school who do well without practicing.
I think it more amazing that at least half the population could run a marathon given enough resolve.
We stories of the hundred pound overweight grandmas who shape-up and complete a marathon. Or myself,
a former sissy, completing marathons.
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by
vBSEO 3.3.0
