fluid replacement and electrolytes

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When we go on our extended trips I carry powdered Gatorade. Last year when I
did the 1700kms in 17days with panniers I went through loads of this stuff
just to feel better during the day. Mind you the temp was around 30 - 32
each day so we were sweating profusely. My liquid intake somedays was around
6litres (one day I failed to pee until it was almost evening which was a bit
of a concern.) What I want to know is what else do people use? Gatorade
seems to help me but it weighs a ton and when you have to carry up to a
weeks worth of food as well the mind starts to boggle. I was given a couple
of "Motor Tabs" to try but I looked on the net and they are very expensive
(around $1 a pill) which over 3 weeks in the heat would work out to be
dearer then petrol LOL. Will give them a go on a 75kms ride tomorrow to see
if I even like the taste etc.
So what suggestions? Thanks
Kathy

Good grief! I just found an aussie site that sells them online and the
Motortabs are $3.50 each! That makes petrol way cheaper lol.

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:04:46 +1000
just us <kilpatsnojunk@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> weeks worth of food as well the mind starts to boggle. I was given a couple
> of "Motor Tabs" to try but I looked on the net and they are very expensive
> (around $1 a pill) which over 3 weeks in the heat would work out to be
> dearer then petrol LOL. Will give them a go on a 75kms ride tomorrow to see
> if I even like the taste etc.
> So what suggestions? Thanks


Well.. back in the very old days, people drank water, and maybe popped
a salt tab.

Plus ate vegetables and fruit.

So maybe don't worry about the modern fancy stuff, just drink lots,
eat well and possibly pop a salt tablet if worried?

Zebee

"just us" wrote:

> When we go on our extended trips I carry powdered Gatorade. Last year when
> I did the 1700kms in 17days with panniers I went through loads of this
> stuff just to feel better during the day. Mind you the temp was around
> 30 - 32 each day so we were sweating profusely. My liquid intake somedays
> was around 6litres (one day I failed to pee until it was almost evening
> which was a bit of a concern.)

When drinking this quantiy of water, hyponatremia is a very real concern
http://geo-outdoors.info/hyponatremia.htm

Seems drinking Gatorade would be one of the better options, to mirror the
bod's electrolytes lost through perspiration and kidney functions.

Take care

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfvebvv.o7b.zebeej@gmail.com...
> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:04:46 +1000

>
> Well.. back in the very old days, people drank water, and maybe popped
> a salt tab.
>
> Plus ate vegetables and fruit.
>
> So maybe don't worry about the modern fancy stuff, just drink lots,
> eat well and possibly pop a salt tablet if worried?
>
> Zebee

yeah I know Zebee and I used to try to think like that but I have seen what
a difference proper rehydration can make. I am talking about remote riding
where you cant carry fresh fruit and veg. I dry all our food for these
trips, which includes heaps of fruit and veg (also extended bush walks) and
we do very well . Interesting to see after 25 days bushwalking with dried
food (carrying up to 20kgs each and walking 8hr days with no fresh food
along the way) the weight loss was not that extreme, 21 days riding with
panniers with dried food and we are still able to go each day so the dried
food/fruit/vegs must be ok but - I have seen people just collapse in a heap
and after proper rehydration and electrolytes they can at least get up and
make it to camp. Maybe it is the heat factor of Far North Qld but eat and
drinking water just doesnt replace the salts lost. Maybe I have been
brainwashed to believe that I need electrolytes but I do know that I feel
100% better if I take it. Over Easter we did a particularly hard ride out
bush and the only person who wasnt using an Electrolyte Replacement actually
went down in a heap and we left her by the road to camp on her own
overnight - she was stuffed. Next time we will encourage her to actually
rehydrate properly, she ate very well, drank litres of water, but it was hot
hot hot and she just crumbled into a crying heap.
Anyway, I feel I need some sort of Electrolyte replacement :)
Tomorrow I am going to do a Tableland circuit and I know for sure after
climbing the Herberton Range and the hills that follow my bit of Gatorade
sure makes me feel a lot better than when I used to do it and struggle
without it :)
Thanks Kathy

just us wrote:

> When we go on our extended trips I carry powdered Gatorade. Last year when I
> did the 1700kms in 17days with panniers I went through loads of this stuff
> just to feel better during the day. Mind you the temp was around 30 - 32
> each day so we were sweating profusely. My liquid intake somedays was around
> 6litres (one day I failed to pee until it was almost evening which was a bit
> of a concern.) What I want to know is what else do people use? Gatorade
> seems to help me but it weighs a ton and when you have to carry up to a
> weeks worth of food as well the mind starts to boggle.

The powdered Gatorade (or similar) is the cheapest by far for the effort you
have to put in. I did my sums, and it roughly replaces everything you need
for the ride (carbs, salts, water etc).
You might be able to DIY cheaper, but most certainly NOT worth the effort.
I tried that route, and was too much trouble for my inherit laziness.

> I was given a couple
> of "Motor Tabs" to try but I looked on the net and they are very expensive
> (around $1 a pill) which over 3 weeks in the heat would work out to be
> dearer then petrol LOL. Will give them a go on a 75kms ride tomorrow to see
> if I even like the taste etc.

Dunno how they perform, but at that price, who cares? I'll never find out.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

On Apr 5, 8:37 pm, John Tserkezis
<j...@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:
> just us wrote:
> > When we go on our extended trips I carry powdered Gatorade. Last year when I
> > did the 1700kms in 17days with panniers I went through loads of this stuff
> > just to feel better during the day. Mind you the temp was around 30 - 32
> > each day so we were sweating profusely. My liquid intake somedays was around
> > 6litres (one day I failed to pee until it was almost evening which was a bit
> > of a concern.) What I want to know is what else do people use? Gatorade
> > seems to help me but it weighs a ton and when you have to carry up to a
> > weeks worth of food as well the mind starts to boggle.
>
> The powdered Gatorade (or similar) is the cheapest by far for the effort you
> have to put in. I did my sums, and it roughly replaces everything you need
> for the ride (carbs, salts, water etc).
> You might be able to DIY cheaper, but most certainly NOT worth the effort.
> I tried that route, and was too much trouble for my inherit laziness.
>
> > I was given a couple
> > of "Motor Tabs" to try but I looked on the net and they are very expensive
> > (around $1 a pill) which over 3 weeks in the heat would work out to be
> > dearer then petrol LOL. Will give them a go on a 75kms ride tomorrow to see
> > if I even like the taste etc.
>
> Dunno how they perform, but at that price, who cares? I'll never find out.
>
> --
> Linux Registered User # 302622
> <http://counter.li.org>

If you are lucky and have an Aldi store nearby, they sell an
equivalent for about half the price. I have looked on both labels and
reckon they are the same


Owen

"just us" <kilpatsnojunk@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:47f73568@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnfvebvv.o7b.zebeej@gmail.com...
>> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:04:46 +1000
>
>>
>> Well.. back in the very old days, people drank water, and maybe popped
>> a salt tab.
>>
>> Plus ate vegetables and fruit.
>>
>> So maybe don't worry about the modern fancy stuff, just drink lots,
>> eat well and possibly pop a salt tablet if worried?
>>
>> Zebee
>
> yeah I know Zebee and I used to try to think like that but I have seen what
> a difference proper rehydration can make. I am talking about remote riding
> where you cant carry fresh fruit and veg. I dry all our food for these
> trips, which includes heaps of fruit and veg (also extended bush walks) and
> we do very well . Interesting to see after 25 days bushwalking with dried
> food (carrying up to 20kgs each and walking 8hr days with no fresh food
> along the way) the weight loss was not that extreme, 21 days riding with
> panniers with dried food and we are still able to go each day so the dried
> food/fruit/vegs must be ok but - I have seen people just collapse in a heap
> and after proper rehydration and electrolytes they can at least get up and
> make it to camp. Maybe it is the heat factor of Far North Qld but eat and
> drinking water just doesnt replace the salts lost. Maybe I have been
> brainwashed to believe that I need electrolytes but I do know that I feel
> 100% better if I take it. Over Easter we did a particularly hard ride out
> bush and the only person who wasnt using an Electrolyte Replacement actually
> went down in a heap and we left her by the road to camp on her own
> overnight - she was stuffed. Next time we will encourage her to actually
> rehydrate properly, she ate very well, drank litres of water, but it was hot
> hot hot and she just crumbled into a crying heap.
> Anyway, I feel I need some sort of Electrolyte replacement :)
> Tomorrow I am going to do a Tableland circuit and I know for sure after
> climbing the Herberton Range and the hills that follow my bit of Gatorade
> sure makes me feel a lot better than when I used to do it and struggle
> without it :)
> Thanks Kathy

If you ride less than an hour, water is best. Beyond that, some food and some
electrolytes, and some water will keep you in the moment. Gatorade powder
was mentioned as the best value for electrolyte, and I agree. Commuting
needs nothing but a drink of water.

Rules of thumb:

After the first hour you need about a litre of water an hour on a cool day, or
double on a hot day. You use up about 600 to 800 Kcal PER HOUR (more if
heavyweight), so budget for that, too. Don't consider replacing the Kcals
during the ride, just during the day or so. NB couch potatoes rate (basal rate)
is 1200Kcal to 1600Kcal (depending on weight), cycling is additional.

1 tablespoon of sugar is about 100 Kcal (a can of soft drink is twice this).
Check the label. An orange is about 80 Kcal. A banana is a bit more. A
sandwich is 150 to 250Kcal depending on what's in it (a BigMac is 500 Kcal).
Chocolate bars are whatever is on the label. Etc.

If you are choosing weight loss, don't target more than 500Kcal less than
your daily Kcal usage, or you get into a stressed mode which works against
weight loss.

To lose weight, if your Kcal deficit is about 7500 Kcal (in a fortnight or a month),
you lose 1Kg. A safe level of loss is 1Kg in 2 weeks or slower (Biggest Loser is
bullshite). [Science: 1Kg of fat is about 9000 Kcal, but body weight is both fat
and supportive tissue, so 7500 Kcal loses 1Kg body mass. Also, cycling or
running raises the basal rate a bit].

Summary:

Drinking water and some Gatorade (etc) on long ride is ideal. Eat according
to feeling hungry. If you ever starve yourself, better to pig out soon after
the event. I've cycletoured on water plus pasta meals, and so have millions
of other humans.

Adjustments to Zebeedom stated wizdom:: Gatorade is better than salt tabs.
In the third world, the ideal replenisher (and diarrhoea supplement) is 1 litre
of water with one table spoon of suger and one teaspoon of salt. This treats
high demand situations (like disease and long term exertion) optimally.

T.

Owen wrote:
> On Apr 5, 8:37 pm, John Tserkezis
> <j...@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:
>> just us wrote:
>>> When we go on our extended trips I carry powdered Gatorade. Last year when I
>>> did the 1700kms in 17days with panniers I went through loads of this stuff
>>> just to feel better during the day. Mind you the temp was around 30 - 32
>>> each day so we were sweating profusely. My liquid intake somedays was around
>>> 6litres (one day I failed to pee until it was almost evening which was a bit
>>> of a concern.) What I want to know is what else do people use? Gatorade
>>> seems to help me but it weighs a ton and when you have to carry up to a
>>> weeks worth of food as well the mind starts to boggle.
>> The powdered Gatorade (or similar) is the cheapest by far for the effort you
>> have to put in. I did my sums, and it roughly replaces everything you need
>> for the ride (carbs, salts, water etc).
>> You might be able to DIY cheaper, but most certainly NOT worth the effort.
>> I tried that route, and was too much trouble for my inherit laziness.
>>
>>> I was given a couple
>>> of "Motor Tabs" to try but I looked on the net and they are very expensive
>>> (around $1 a pill) which over 3 weeks in the heat would work out to be
>>> dearer then petrol LOL. Will give them a go on a 75kms ride tomorrow to see
>>> if I even like the taste etc.
>> Dunno how they perform, but at that price, who cares? I'll never find out.
>>
>> --
>> Linux Registered User # 302622
>> <http://counter.li.org>
>
> If you are lucky and have an Aldi store nearby, they sell an
> equivalent for about half the price. I have looked on both labels and
> reckon they are the same
>
>
> Owen

A replacement for the "Motor Tabs" at half the price or a replacement
for powdered Gatorade at half the price Owen?


G-S

Kathy asks -

> What I want to know is what else do people use? Gatorade ...>

On a Adelaide to Melb ride a while back the popular recovery drink in the
evening oddly enough was litre bottles of supermarket bought tonic water
(keep the lemon, lose the gin...)

Sounds odd but try it one evening when your legs are fried and tomorrow's
another long day - goes really well with a mix of salted nuts and dried
fruit

For those that take the road less travelled -

best, Andrew

In article <47f725cf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
"just us" <kilpatsnojunk@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> Good grief! I just found an aussie site that sells them online and the
> Motortabs are $3.50 each! That makes petrol way cheaper lol.

Kathy,

You need to do some reading to get some accurate background information.

For a start, do a google search for oral rehyration salt (ORS) or oral
rehydration therapy (ORT). Starting here is as good as anything:
<http://rehydrate.org/ors/index.html> [go to the rehydrate page and read
the formula for ORS]

For general reading, and a number of very interesting articles on eating
and drinking before and during exercise, I can recommend Monique Ryan
(nutritionist and author of 'Sports Nutrition for Endurance Athletes'):
<http://www.velonews.com/monique-ryan>

Sports drinks vary in quality and fitness for purpose. Gatorade, Endura,
Staminade, Powerade, etc all can assist with rehydration but beware of
sugar content. You can buy it made up (in which case you are mainly
paying for water and a container to carry it in) or as powder (much
better if you have regular access to potable water).

Severe dehydration, caused by diahorrhea or vomiting, is better treated
using something like Gastrolyte - as it is much more concentrated.

To assist with the replacement of salts lost through sweating you can
also take tablets such as Motortabs or Lava Salts (much cheaper):
<http://www.fastgear.com.au/> [go to lava at left]

Lack of energy - as your friend had - is not necessarily an indicator of
being dehydrated. She probably was dehydrated but she might just have
run out of easily accessible energy stores and could not efficiently
metabolise fat to get energy. She might have come good with something as
simple as flat coke which contains both sugar and caffeine and is
wonderful when you need an energy boost.

In addition to what looks best on paper, one size definitely does not
fit all when it comes to being able to actually drink electrolyte
drinks. Some people have an inability to stomach some brands and being
able to drink 500ml of a brand you like might not feel the same after 2
litres of the stuff.

Read up on the subject, try every different brand and pick what suits
you best. Try to include some variation in your 'diet'.

regards,
Darryl

PS. A saying I read during the week was:
Reading the fine print is called education, not reading the fine print
is called experience.