View Full Version : My 5K pace and 1/2 marathon pace are almost identical
I have a problem with my races and hope that somebody has a suggestion that could help me to
improve. My MHR is 180. My 10 mile to half marathon race pace is almost the same speed as my 10K
race pace and only about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower than my 5K race pace. I can run a long
distance (half marathon) w/pulse rate at 155 or so, but when I try to run shorter races with my
pulse in the low 160's, I get out of breath and can't continue at that heart rate. For speedwork, I
usually do tempo runs of 3 to 5 miles or 1 mile repeats at 5K pace. Would appreciate advice for
speedwork.
>Would appreciate advice for speedwork.
Much shorter, more intense speed work. Like 100 yard dashes.
Bill R.
=============> - -- - (_!_)
OO
In article <4bc04713.0304141504.5947293d@posting.google.com>, MAJ wrote:
> I have a problem with my races and hope that somebody has a suggestion that could help me to
> improve. My MHR is 180. My 10 mile to half marathon race pace is almost the same speed as my 10K
> race pace and only about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower than my 5K race pace. I
This isn't *that* unusual, especially if you take into account possible variation in the difficulty
of the courses.
According to my calculator, a 6:40 pace for 3 miles predicts a 7:08 pace for 10 miles.
http://www.panix.com/~elflord/predict.html
So your conditioning may be marginally better for the longer distances, but not that much.
> can run a long distance (half marathon) w/pulse rate at 155 or so, but when I try to run shorter
> races with my pulse in the low 160's, I get out of breath and can't continue at that heart rate.
> For speedwork, I usually do tempo runs of 3 to 5 miles or 1 mile repeats at 5K pace. Would
> appreciate advice for speedwork.
Try this calculator to get your pace for interval running:
http://www.panix.com/~elflord/vdot.html
I'd suggest you try workouts consisting of repeats of 3-5 minutes duration at "I" pace, with about
2-4 minutes rest between each repeat.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
I am not surprised that 10K and half pace are that close or that your 5K and 10K paces are
that close.
"MAJ" <johnson@fred.net> wrote in message news:4bc04713.0304141504.5947293d@posting.google.com...
> I have a problem with my races and hope that somebody has a suggestion that could help me to
> improve. My MHR is 180. My 10 mile to half marathon race pace is almost the same speed as my 10K
> race pace and only about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower than my 5K race pace. I can run a long
> distance (half marathon) w/pulse rate at 155 or so, but when I try to run shorter races with my
> pulse in the low 160's, I get out of breath and can't continue at that heart rate. For speedwork,
> I usually do tempo runs of 3 to 5 miles or 1 mile repeats at 5K pace. Would appreciate advice for
> speedwork.
Doesn't sound that bad. Now if you said your 800 meter pace was the same as your 1/2 marathon pace,
then there is probably something wrong.
As for speed work, I'd suggest 1 or 2 800 meter runs, near or flat out. They seem to help me out
quite a bit, and I plan on doing some more of them today.
Roger
MAJ wrote in message <4bc04713.0304141504.5947293d@posting.google.com>...
>I have a problem with my races and hope that somebody has a suggestion that could help me to
>improve. My MHR is 180. My 10 mile to half marathon race pace is almost the same speed as my 10K
>race pace and only about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower than my 5K race pace. I can run a long
>distance (half marathon) w/pulse rate at 155 or so, but when I try to run shorter races with my
>pulse in the low 160's, I get out of breath and can't continue at that heart rate. For speedwork, I
>usually do tempo runs of 3 to 5 miles or 1 mile repeats at 5K pace. Would appreciate advice for
>speedwork.
>Much shorter, more intense speed work. Like 100 yard dashes.
>
>Bill R.
>
Yep.
MAJ <johnson@fred.net> wrote:
> I have a problem with my races and hope that somebody has a suggestion that could help me to
> improve. My MHR is 180. My 10 mile to half marathon race pace is almost the same speed as my 10K
> race pace and only about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower than my 5K race pace. I can run a long
> distance (half marathon) w/pulse rate at 155 or so, but when I try to run shorter races with my
> pulse in the low 160's, I get out of breath and can't continue at that heart rate. For speedwork,
> I usually do tempo runs of 3 to 5 miles or 1 mile repeats at 5K pace. Would appreciate advice for
> speedwork.
---Sounds like you're hitting your aerobic threshold and have poor lactate tolerance, but decent
endurance. So you can cover any distance up to half marathon and the distance doesn't tire you, but
you can't push any of them over the aerobic envelope or you crash quickly. You need a two-step fix.
The first is to improve your aerobic threshold, which is most effectively done (for MOST people) by
running a lot of your miles at around 70% max HR. This should feel pretty easy; get a couple longer
runs (at least 60 min) per week at this effort, and a couple shorter ones about 15 bpm faster. After
a few months of this as you are about a month out from racing, start doing 400/800m interval work
with short recoveries (90 sec for 800s, 45-60 sec for 400s). This will push you anaerobic and
improve your tolerance for lactate. Andy Hass
You might want to take into account your ability - speed vs stamina. There's a chap at my club who
will never be a speed demon - but he can easily run a half-marathon with minimal specific training.
There are others who burn up the 5K course - but cannot cope with the marathon.
So, like other replies to this thread, I'd say that you shouldn't be so surprised. There are pace
calculators around, but you've got to take them with a pinch of salt, because they assume an average
person on a regular decay of speed over distance.
One of the speedwork sessions we do is 300m repeats, with a 100m jog recovery. 15x these (so, a
total of 4500m), with warm-up and warm-down jogs either side. The 300's are completed at 'faster
than 5K pace'. For example, my 5K PB gets me close to 6:00 miling. Therefore, I'll do 300's faster
than that (around 58-60 seconds per repetition).
This kind of session gets you used to running fast under pressure (i.e. fatigue!), and it improves
your fast running style and technique.
Personally though, I'd find it very hard to do the above without a club environment, so if you
haven't already done so, then it would be worthwhile checking out a local club and seeing if they
have speedwork evenings (either on the track, or on grass).
Best of luck!
Neil.
MAJ <johnson@fred.net> wrote in message news:4bc04713.0304141504.5947293d@posting.google.com...
> I have a problem with my races and hope that somebody has a suggestion that could help me to
> improve. My MHR is 180. My 10 mile to half marathon race pace is almost the same speed as my 10K
> race pace and only about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower than my 5K race pace. I can run a long
> distance (half marathon) w/pulse rate at 155 or so, but when I try to run shorter races with my
> pulse in the low 160's, I get out of breath and can't continue at that heart rate. For speedwork,
> I usually do tempo runs of 3 to 5 miles or 1 mile repeats at 5K pace. Would appreciate advice for
> speedwork.
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