Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters andsidewalks

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On Apr 15, 11:04 am, Eric Vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
>
> Somebody IS organized.http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-respon...
>
> Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
> Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
> weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
> Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
> toll gates are complete.
>
> About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
> in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
> that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
> on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
> between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
> at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
> smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
> boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
> later. It's tax day, you know...

So what's the gain? It was free anytime, any day, no? Or you mean the
traffic lanes are being opened to bikes?

ComandanteBanana wrote:
> On Apr 15, 11:04 am, Eric Vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
>> ComandanteBanana wrote:
>>
>> Somebody IS organized.http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-respon...
>>
>> Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
>> Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
>> weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
>> Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
>> toll gates are complete.
>>
>> About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
>> in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
>> that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
>> on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
>> between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
>> at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
>> smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
>> boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
>> later. It's tax day, you know...
>
> So what's the gain? It was free anytime, any day, no? Or you mean the
> traffic lanes are being opened to bikes?

I read that one lane will be for bikes only. This will not be all the
time, but on weekdays and early weekend mornings. I don't live there, so
I don't know much more about it.

On Apr 15, 11:26 am, Eric Vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 11:04 am, Eric Vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> >> ComandanteBanana wrote:
>
> >> Somebody IS organized.http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-respon...
>
> >> Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
> >> Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
> >> weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
> >> Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
> >> toll gates are complete.
>
> >> About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
> >> in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
> >> that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
> >> on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
> >> between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
> >> at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
> >> smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
> >> boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
> >> later. It's tax day, you know...
>
> > So what's the gain? It was free anytime, any day, no? Or you mean the
> > traffic lanes are being opened to bikes?
>
> I read that one lane will be for bikes only. This will not be all the
> time, but on weekdays and early weekend mornings. I don't live there, so
> I don't know much more about it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, it ain't much of a difference I think.

Key Biscayne is like a bikers paradise (that's where the wealthy live
anyway), but once you go deep into the Miami jungle, things turn
scary. Your life won't be worth it more than a stray dog. ;)

>>
> - Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.

Pat in TX

On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

On Apr 15, 12:08 pm, Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org> wrote:
> >> Remind me again why BRITONS should care?
> > Man, we are like brothers! Our headaches are tied up to
> > OIL, but bikes could at least be aspirine!
>
> =v= It seems you are missing the point, which has something
> to do with off-topic cross-posting. A thread about cyclists
> in America is OFF-TOPIC for uk.rec.cycling. Britons who are
> interested in this sort of thing are fully capable of choosing
> to subscribe to rec.bicycles.soc. Those who are not interested
> shouldn't be having to wade through tons of off-topic chatter.
>
> =v= The whole point of having separate newsgroups is so that
> people can stick to what they're interested in. Kindly honor
> this. None of this stuff belongs in rec.bicycles.rides, for
> example, and rec.bicycles.misc doesn't mean "crosspost anything
> and everything to this list." The purpose of *.misc newsgroups
> is for things not covered by other newsgroups.
>
> =v= Massive cross-posting is annoying and people respond by
> tuning out. It's kind of exactly the opposite of getting the
> message out to more people.
> <_Jym_>

Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish in 5
groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out people.
Particularly when THE TOPIC IS TRULY UNIVERSAL. On the other hand,
when I turn on the radio I hear news I don't care about, like when
Bush says we are making progress in Iraq or that we need more research
into alternative transportation, as if bikes didn't exist.

Let those who don't want to listen to turn out. We will ALL be victims
of this jungle sooner or later.

> Comandante, you need to find a better route!


Suzy, regrettably I don't live anywhere close to those places where
bicycles are OK, so I must be happy to do turn to my stationary bike,
and get my workout indoors...

But have you heard of Global Warming or the War in Iraq being
connected to what we drive? Should I also shot off the news from the
outside world?

Hey, I may as well go to church and pray that Armageddon is coming
soon... ;)

"Pat" <intex@tmail.com> wrote in message
news:66k15pF2ks73bU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say
> is that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs
> bent on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as
> you and I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> Pat in TX
>

You smell a troll? This place is stinking to the high heavens with this
troll and his buddies.

On Apr 15, 10:45 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 14, 10:27 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
> > although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
> > "banana" boy.
>
> DonQuijote and ComandanteBanana are the same thing.

I'm aware of that.

>
> > No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
> > claim. No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
> > safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
>
> > All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
> > rate from bicycling is infinitesmal. There are roughly fifteen
> > million miles ridden between bike fatalities. People who cycle
> > regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists. Many
> > researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
> > than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
> > traffic.
>
> Man, you need to go in the jungle more often... "Riding a bicycle in
> peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at worst downright
> treacherous."...

I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.

I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.

I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.

You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.

- Frank Krygowski

In article <66j50mF2k3ij7U4@mid.individual.net>,
"Dave Larrington" <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote:

> In
> news:5c225b35-5f40-41ff-849f-6d1780b9dbe6@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> , ComandanteBanana <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> tweaked the
> Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
> > That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters
> > and sidewalks.
>
> Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Because we're a big export market for British, Irish and Scottish beers?
The more we ride our bikes, the thirstier we get. ;-)

In article
<fc22df42-510f-4cb3-9e6e-a4dbcf3f7fd5@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
ComandanteBanana <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish in 5
> groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out people.

Or, alternatively, you have five times the opportunity to continue
looking like a whack troll.

On Apr 15, 3:29 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <66j50mF2k3ij...@mid.individual.net>,
> "Dave Larrington" <smert.spamio...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > In
> >news:5c225b35-5f40-41ff-849f-6d1780b9dbe6@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> > , ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> tweaked the
> > Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
> > > That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters
> > > and sidewalks.
>
> > Remind me again why BRITONS should care?
>
> Because we're a big export market for British, Irish and Scottish beers?
> The more we ride our bikes, the thirstier we get. ;-)

That's right. They are making us pee too much!

Something difficult to do when you are riding a bike and there's no
bushes around.

Hey, don't get me wrong, it's not that I want the Bushes around
anymore. ;)

On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:45 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 14, 10:27 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
> > > although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
> > > "banana" boy.
>
> > DonQuijote and ComandanteBanana are the same thing.
>
> I'm aware of that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
> > > claim.  No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
> > > safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
>
> > > All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
> > > rate from bicycling is infinitesmal.  There are roughly fifteen
> > > million miles ridden between bike fatalities.  People who cycle
> > > regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists.  Many
> > > researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
> > > than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
> > > traffic.
>
> > Man, you need to go in the jungle more often... "Riding a bicycle in
> > peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at worst downright
> > treacherous."...
>
> I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
>
> I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> is.  Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic.  Unlike
> you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> of danger.  And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> I've commuted by bike since 1977.  I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> and in peak rush hour in many of them.  I've ridden in at least eight
> countries.  I've done many self-supported tours,  up to 4000 miles.
> I've ridden for nearly 40 years.  In all that time, my only on-road
> injury was one skinned knee.  Off road, add one incident where I
> scraped my hands a bit.
>
> You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it.  If
> you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it.  Ride where you're
> comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

I even bet you that riding a bike on America's roads is more dangerous
than doing service in Iraq.

We have to do the numbers, but I think that that's more true than
Obama's statement that soldiers in Iraq are safer than kids in
Chicago. At least I see more terrorists on our roads. ;)

On Apr 15, 4:29 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> > Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> > is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
> > you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> > of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> > "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> > I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> > and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
> > countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
> > I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
> > injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
> > scraped my hands a bit.
>
> > You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
> > you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
> > comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> > - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...
>
> I even bet you that riding a bike on America's roads is more dangerous
> than doing service in Iraq.
>
> We have to do the numbers, but I think that that's more true than
> Obama's statement that soldiers in Iraq are safer than kids in
> Chicago. At least I see more terrorists on our roads. ;)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, here I respond to my own challenge, since there's been no
challengers so far...

Some numbers on nationwide bicycle fatalities from 1975-2002:
"660 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles in 2002."

So, since the deployment in Iraq accounts to 150,000 or so, we have to
prove that the same number of people riding bikes on heavy traffic
have a greater death toll. Of course, this doesn't apply to well
maintained bike paths where the beautiful people live nor to those
living in the actual Green Zone in Baghdad.

And also you have to take into account that bikers are not wearing
heavy armor... ;)

How sad, you have a strong idea and then you die because you were
wrong all along. Case in point is how Crocodile Hunter was killed by a
manta ray while trying to prove that sea monsters were quite
harmless... No, they are not. I say, "NEVER TRUST THE BEAST!" A basic
concept in the jungle.

Here's another example of people who die because of their wrong
ideas...

Is Cycling Dangerous?
Cyclist Ken Kifer uses statistics from a variety of reliable sources
to show that bicycling is not as dangerous as people often think it
is. I think his number of cyclists is a bit optimisitic, and that
makes the fractional risk a bit too small in some cases, but overall
he makes a good argument that cycling is not that risky. Sadly, Ken
was killed by a drunken driver in September 2003 while he was
bicycling.

Well, America ain't alone in the law of the jungle. Even civilized
Canada suffers from it. But the solution is the same...

"if the cops do something about how much worse driving has gotten in
the city, even stupid humans will play nice to avoid consequences,
which they won't do just because it is right."


Cyclist Stabs Motorist
Posted November 2nd, 2007 by vic in road rage
The Toronto Star is reporting that a cyclist stabbed a motorist with a
screwdriver after a road rage incident. It happened this morning at
around 9:45am at the corner of College and McCaul.

A few more details on the City News website. They believe the cyclist
was a "courier".

It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
even come close to wanting to stab someone.

All this madness on the roads needs to end.

....

cars as weapons
On November 2nd, 2007 tanya says:
Definitely its not acceptable to stab a motorist over a road rage
altercation. Its not acceptable either to threaten them by waving a
knife in their face.

But yet when motorists get "road rage" they have a deadly weapon right
under their right foot. I've encountered motorists who will try to
intimidate me by gunning for me, then swerving at the last minute. Its
sad that this kind of knife waving is all too socially "acceptable".

....

Human nature is s%$#
On November 2nd, 2007 Aidan says:
Who cares what the guy's job, or lack of, was. He went postal. The
fact that every cyclist commenting here has likely fantasized about
doing something similar points to what we put up with. Human nature is
s%$#, but if the cops do something about how much worse driving has
gotten in the city, even stupid humans will play nice to avoid
consequences, which they won't do just because it is right.

http://www.ibiketo.ca/node/1735

donquijote1954 <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> writes:

> Well, America ain't alone in the law of the jungle. Even civilized
> Canada suffers from it. But the solution is the same...

Fortunately it isn't the same - here it could have involved a gun
and a much higher chance of a fatality.

> Cyclist Stabs Motorist
> Posted November 2nd, 2007 by vic in road rage
> The Toronto Star is reporting that a cyclist stabbed a motorist with a
> screwdriver after a road rage incident. It happened this morning at
> around 9:45am at the corner of College and McCaul.
>
> A few more details on the City News website. They believe the cyclist
> was a "courier".
>
> It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
> caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
> stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
> Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
> my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
> even come close to wanting to stab someone.

I was in one incident (fortunately no injuries or crashes) in which
an irate driver passed me in very light traffic on a perfectly straight
road, and then, when the road went from 4 lanes to 2, he tried to
close the gap between us and would slam on his breaks, repeating this
behavior 3 times. I managed to avoid an accident, but it was very
close.

I got his license number and reported it to the police. With the reaction
I got from the f___tards in the DA's office, coupled with the lies and
run-arounds, I can see why someone might react the way this Canadian
cyclist did. If society wants people to do the "right" thing and let
the criminal justice system handle it, the criminal justice system has
to uphold its part of the bargain.

BTW, the driver admitted to the braking. His excuse was that I was
supposedly going 30 in a 25 zone and he couldn't outrun me, but I
was blocking traffic anyway. And that was on a knobby-tired mountain
bike on basically level ground.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

ComandanteBanana wrote:
> On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
>> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
>> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
>> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
>> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>>
>> Pat in TX
>
> I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!

"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.

Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Eric Vey wrote:

> Jack May wrote:
>
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:b177ae18-758f-43e6-9991-b37f2b57ac8d@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Apr 14, 5:49 pm, <h> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:e09cfb36-654a-4f72-96fd-277ae5ce690c@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>
>>
>>> Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
>>> more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
>>> strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.
>>
>>
>> It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
>> Darwin prize is not smart.
>>
>
> When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
> outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
> down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

Didn't we read some days back in the trike thread, that he IS A CYCLIST?
T.
--
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it.”
<Upton Sinclair in The Jungle>

On Apr 15, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> >> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
> >> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> >> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as youand
> >> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> >> Pat in TX
>
> > I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> > side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> > live in the boondocks.
>
> WRONG!!!
>
> "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?

Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York". Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant. Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse. Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.