Landis is racing the Cohutta 100 on Saturday

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Yes... but if you were a power crazy guy who wanted to have the ultimate stick to punish errant pros with... correctly categorizing or labelling samples with the characteristics you desire would be not that difficult... if it was a dedicated project. This also explains to me how they can keep dopers looking clean (like Lance). It's not the labs. The UCI give the labs a clean sample. Not the one Lance just pissed. Lance was paying the payola... Floyd wasn't.Don't get it. What is the advantage for the UCI... risking (as then happened) having the winner of the Tour de France declared a year or two following the fact? Having to fight off a direct attack by the organisers on the one thing you hold close to your heart... the Pro Tour? I still do not see motive for going after Floyd... :confused:

Yes... but if you were a power crazy guy who wanted to have the ultimate stick to punish errant pros with... correctly categorizing or labelling samples with the characteristics you desire would be not that difficult... if it was a dedicated project. This also explains to me how they can keep dopers looking clean (like Lance). It's not the labs. The UCI give the labs a clean sample. Not the one Lance just pissed. Lance was paying the payola... Floyd wasn't.That is one theory (that UCI gives clean samples for testing). The alternate theory is that the labs report the positive tests to the UCI who choose to shred the results and keep mum about it. The labs are not supposed to know whose sample they are testing, the French lab leaking results notwithstanding...

5 Floyd samples had testosterone. Floyd not ask for DNA match. Floyd used testosterone. Used extra patch after bonk. Floyd know samples his.

Also used blood, EPO, HGH, insulin, cortisone. Doping tests to catch dopers not to find dope used.Yeah italiano... but I agree, Floyd was using the dope (synthetic testosterone). It's just that all he had to do was pass the screen test... not the IRMS test. And I think he knew how to pass the first screen test. And if H-V has Floyd's actual piss kept in cold storage... a DNA match is useless.

That is one theory (that UCI gives clean samples for testing). The alternate theory is that the labs report the positive tests to the UCI who choose to shred the results and keep mum about it. The labs are not supposed to know whose sample they are testing, the French lab leaking results notwithstanding...Yeah but positives are supposedly not that common. If the lab finds one anonymously, and no public announcement is forthcoming from the UCI... the Lab knows that the positive has been hidden, irrespective of not knowing the identity of the cyclist.

... a DNA match is useless.Samples at lab not UCI.

Don't get it. What is the advantage for the UCI... risking (as then happened) having the winner of the Tour de France declared a year or two following the fact? Having to fight off a direct attack by the organisers on the one thing you hold close to your heart... the Pro Tour? I still do not see motive for going after Floyd... :confused:Hein Verbriuggen hated his guts I think. Floyd made a public stink about the fact that the UCI had not given him his three months insurance pay when Mercury Team folded in 2001. Floyd was not a team player with the UCI. Personal dislikes and vendettas can run deep. Notwithstanding that the Tour had been won by an American for the last seven years, and then when he retires, another one steps in to win it.

Also, the furor did nothing to help the TdF, and considering ASO were seen as a major stumbling block even then to the UCI's ambitions, a little negative publicity of the TdF couldn't hurt. The UCI wouldn't really mind if things went way bad. It would weaken their adversaries.

Anyway... this is just a theory. Like I said... if someone shoots it down with some common sense or knowledge that I'm ignorant of... I don't mind losing it. That's what I thought these places were for anyway. Civil debate of ideas.

However I do feel a bit like I might have just run into Harlem shouting that Martin Luther King was a faggot.... :p

Samples at lab not UCI.Do you know that? We know there is a sample at the lab. But how do you know that there isn't a separate stash? UCI can screen test and keep whatever they like? Or is that going to take too much time? Or maybe tripping the testosterone screen test is not that difficult... you can just add a drop of the stuff to the sample and it's like 12-1.

Do you know that? We know there is a sample at the lab. But how do you know that there isn't a separate stash? UCI can screen test and keep whatever they like? Or is that going to take too much time? Or maybe tripping the testosterone screen test is not that difficult... you can just add a drop of the stuff to the sample and it's like 12-1.IRMS show what body makes from testosterone. Not testosterone. Cant add testosterone drop. DNA test show sample is only of Floyd. Switching urine not possible.

More complications.

Not buying the defenders searching for any reasons. I am saying there are many reasons why it could genuinely have spiked a little from actual testo application, and Landis assumed he was fine like always.Gotcha. Lots of variables, and the science is really above my head.

BTW jimmypop... I'm as much a believer as anyone that Floyd is a doper. I just also think that Hein Verbruggen has even less integrity than a cheating cyclist and IMO could quite easily be capable of using underhand methods to cut down a pro cyclist he doesn't like.I'm not familiar with this angle. I was unaware that Verbruggen held a special contempt for Landis. What did Landis do to earn that scrutiny?

I'm not familiar with this angle. I was unaware that Verbruggen held a special contempt for Landis. What did Landis do to earn that scrutiny?I've never heard that HV had any issues with Landis. Well that's not true, ususally that sentence is used in the 'They hate Americans' context. pshaw.

I think that this out(f)landish conspiracy theory was brought by the Flandis supporters, as they still can't believe that their hero doped. I don't think that the UCI had to frame Landis, somehow he messed up his recovery and his testosterone levels were out of wack and triggered a result.

The UCI with HV don't need to frame the dopers. Yes, they were (still are?) protecting some dopers in the past. How? By letting them know when tests would be happening. By not doing tests. And I'm sure other ways.

And, they also probably called in tests for guys they decided to use as scapegoat.

But no need to fake results, such a conspiracy theory would involve too many people, and someone would talk.

I've never heard that HV had any issues with Landis. Well that's not true, ususally that sentence is used in the 'They hate Americans' context. pshaw.

I think that this out(f)landish conspiracy theory was brought by the Flandis supporters, as they still can't believe that their hero doped. I don't think that the UCI had to frame Landis, somehow he messed up his recovery and his testosterone levels were out of wack and triggered a result.

The UCI with HV don't need to frame the dopers. Yes, they were (still are?) protecting some dopers in the past. How? By letting them know when tests would be happening. By not doing tests. And I'm sure other ways.

And, they also probably called in tests for guys they decided to use as scapegoat.

But no need to fake results, such a conspiracy theory would involve too many people, and someone would talk.Cyclingheroes posted the details of the incident that put UCI at odds with FL - the same incident which Cranky is referring to above.

I've never heard that HV had any issues with Landis. Well that's not true, ususally that sentence is used in the 'They hate Americans' context. pshaw.The issues were relayed via Landis... so they could be exaggerated. I read about 30 pages of his book in the bookstore when it came out... I also read a rehash of the story in DPF recently, which was posted by Floyd himself a year ago. Knowing a bit about his personality (just as much as anyone else knows)... I can imagine an ego clash happening on the incident/anecdote he describes. Floyd is the sort of guy who would not give in if he felt he deserved something (the three months salary bond held by the UCI as insurance) and H-V is just the sort of character who would detest insolence from one of the pro cycling proletariat. It took two years before Floyd got his money... and he was flat broke.

I think that this out(f)landish conspiracy theory was brought by the Flandis supporters, as they still can't believe that their hero doped. I don't think that the UCI had to frame Landis, somehow he messed up his recovery and his testosterone levels were out of wack and triggered a result. Please don't label/pigeon hole a viewpoint by branding it as belonging to a particular group. I don't believe Floyd is a clean rider. As I believe 80% of the peloton are dirty as well. I am trying to postulate an explanation for the behavior of all the players that is plausible. Of course the standard one on this forum that you also proclaim... and which is still highly likely (and one in which I subscribed to, and perhaps will subscribe to if someone presents something to steer me back there) is very plausible. There are a few things however that just don't fit to me, which I have explained. Floyd to me is more than fighting for his name... I think the guy feels cheated. Cheated in the sense that he is certain (in his own mind) that he should not have tripped that initial T/E 4:1 limit. I think most of the peloton are probably on the synthetic testosterone... but their safeguard is not tripping the initial T/E test that leads to them performing the IRMS test.


The UCI with HV don't need to frame the dopers. Yes, they were (still are?) protecting some dopers in the past. How? By letting them know when tests would be happening. By not doing tests. And I'm sure other ways.

And, they also probably called in tests for guys they decided to use as scapegoat.

But no need to fake results, such a conspiracy theory would involve too many people, and someone would talk.I don't think it has to involve too many players. Theoretically it would only need to be H-V and one other person who could tamper with the sample between the cyclist handing it over and then the UCI rep giving it to the lab.

I am not saying that Floyd has been falsely accused as a doper. I'm saying that the UCI knew he was a doper (as do they know 100 others are) and can manipulate things so the IRMS is performed. I would wager that if you performed the IRMS test on the whole peloton... more than half would test positive... but that is just a speculative opinion.

I'm speculating that the UCI know everyone dopes just about... and manage the doping control process so that they have the ability to control the outcomes. If I was a power crazed corrupt egotist like H-V, that's how I would set it up. His safety is that if someone is involved they are kept hushed by their own complicity in the nefarious activity. If they can effect hardly any positive tests between 99-05... then they have the ability to manipulate the results IMO... somehow.

They are not framing innocents, so there is less guilt on their part. They are (in my supposition her) just deciding who they think deserves to be thrown to the wolves out of the bunch of cheats that they hide from the public.

Landis is not fat. He's either nowhere near top condition or had a mechanical. Just finishing an MTB 100 means he has a reasonable base level of fitness.

Landis is not fat. He's either nowhere near top condition or had a mechanical. Just finishing an MTB 100 means he has a reasonable base level of fitness.

Still the most unattactive man in cycling...... the fact that he can't string a sentence together doesn't help..... cycling is better off without Landis.

Verbruggen put Nike spam in cycling forums!

Proof?

Easy…same master plot like Flandis positive…

same source to soryplot...http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

.. By letting them know when tests would be happening. By not doing tests. And I'm sure other ways. And, they also probably called in tests for guys they decided to use as scapegoat. But no need to fake results, such a conspiracy theory would involve too many people, and someone would talk.
correct rihgt on!..kachechkin i vino case point...targeting with surprise test due to UCI knowledge who dope...exposing as they wish....when they wish

I say Floyd doper.

IRMS test proof.

No pathetic doper apologist here.

We at CF say: Verbruggen corrupt and immoral

But beyond sticking it to Floyd.

Wake up and read the posts snoody.

If you want to present counter proof... please go ahead... I will drop the spec quick when it is shown to be completely implausible. I'm not wedded to it... and quite likely wrong. But your weakness is you always think you're right.

Italiano say can't speak well english: I prove italiano liar

Italiano say four years lurking on DPF as non-member : italiano liar... been member DPF at least four year. Especially in Flandis forum.

Italiano say earth dweller is someone she not: italiano liar or stupid.

You gotta love how he made Edie into bella signora dwella!

So, is snood = italiano?

You gotta love how he made Edie into bella signora dwella!

So, is snood = italiano?I wasn't referring to that. He PM"d me saying that Edie was someone on DPF and attempted to reveal her identity. I quickly found out that his info was bogus. That's when I outed his "speak little English" disguise. He was simultaneously backstabbing a friend while he was hounding C on the forum. The "italiano" is just a sock-puppet to hide his real identity.