Astana to ride the Giro

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Yes Alberto on holidays in Spain.... yeh right.... he's withdrawing blood..
I am going to ask what could be considered an ignorant question so please bear with me.

If Alberto (or anyone) would draw blood now, wouldn't that actually hurt them, initially, in the Giro?

I would assume the intent would be to use a rest day to pump it back in.

What is the shelf life of your blood? 6-8 weeks, right?

Would the timing be good, then, for Alberto to have the draw?

I am going to ask what could be considered an ignorant question so please bear with me.

If Alberto (or anyone) would draw blood now, wouldn't that actually hurt them, initially, in the Giro?

I would assume the intent would be to use a rest day to pump it back in.

What is the shelf life of your blood? 6-8 weeks, right?

Would the timing be good, then, for Alberto to have the draw?I thought the shelf life was much longer now that they use very cold refrigeration. Over a year even.

I am going to ask what could be considered an ignorant question so please bear with me.

If Alberto (or anyone) would draw blood now, wouldn't that actually hurt them, initially, in the Giro?

The issue would be enough time for the body to restore the normal amount of red blood cells. I don't know for sure but would think this is too late, but it appears the idea that Astana really just discovered out of the blue that they were riding might not be exactly right either.

How long before the Tour is the Dauphine? Hasn't there been talk in the past about riders dogging it there because of extractions but then flying by Tour time?

Well it's not exactly like there was an Armstrong or Ullrich at last year's Tour. Leipheimer was a podium finisher and in the past he's been a bottom top-10 sort of guy. Either he got a boost last year or last year's Tour maybe wasn't so tough at the top end?
Last year's TdF was missing so many top guys by the time they hit Paris. Vino, Kloden, Rasmussen, Menchov, etc.

Interesting to look at the lists from 2004 and 2005. Leipheimer came 9th- 1 through 7 weren't in the race at the end of 2007, only Sastre who came in 8th in 04 finished in 07. In 2005, Leipheimer was 6th, 1 through 5 didn't finish in 2007. Even 06, Leipheimer's worst year, only Pereiro, Sastre, Evans, Moreau, Zubeldia, and Schleck topped Levi.

So I'd say 2007 had the weakest finishing field, and if a rider was to podium once, that was the year to do it. Levi won't do it again.

Lionel Birnie in Cycling Weekly sums up how I feel about Astana at the Giro.

article below:
Tuesday 6th May 2008 - Lionel Birnie

Forgive me but my interest in this year's Giro d'Italia has just dropped through the floor.

The fans of Astana and Johan Bruyneel may well rejoice at the chance to see Alberto Contador, Andreas Kloden and Levi Leipheimer race in one of the grand tours.

But the last thing the Giro needs is an Astana-led procession.

The last-minute change of heart by the Giro's organiser, RCS, threatens the credibility of the race.

And, if we're being honest, the credibility of the Giro doesn't need another jolt.

The past two years have seen super-hard routes, back-loaded with insanely difficult mountain stages in the final week, descend into farce.

If it was a bit perplexing then, reflected on now, the 2006 race looks like a complete joke. Ivan Basso won it by more than nine minutes, exuding the aura of the greatest mountain climber ever born. Three weeks later he was prevented from starting the Tour de France when his links to Dr Eufamiano Fuentes were uncovered. Basso gave it the whole 'I made a few plans to dope but didn't actually do it' line but nevertheless took his punishment without complaint.

Runner-up was a man they nicknamed the buffalo because he was a lumbering beast. Yet Jose Enrique Gutierrez – who rode for Phonak (stop sniggering at the back, it gets better) – managed to follow Basso over the mountains and finished second, albeit a distant second.

His name, too, was in Fuentes' filofax of doom and he was 'withdrawn from racing' by Phonak. He wasn't sacked or suspended, he was just handed the rough end of a catchy euphemism.

Phonak's summer got worse when Floyd Landis failed a dope test at the Tour and the sponsor pulled out.

So the first two in the race had rather large question marks over them and third placed Gilberto Simoni was not slow in airing his concerns about them.

Last year, Danilo Di Luca, he of the child-like hormone values, won.

What? Don't be so cynical. He just loves mineral water, drank loads of it to rehydrate and his hormones went all funny. These things can happen.

In the face of an investigation into Di Luca's association with a banned doctor, Carlo Santuccione, the Liquigas rider was prevented from putting the seal on what would have been a second ProTour victory when he was stopped from riding the Tour of Lombardy.

Then he was banned for three months – a totally pointless gesture as it ran concurrently with the off-season, so unless Di Luca fancied a crack at the Six-Days or some cyclo-cross it was no punishment at all.

Liquigas did not renew his contract – odd considering they've now signed Basso. Di Luca found salvation at team LPR Brakes and will fancy his chances of the podium again, no doubt, despite Astana's stellar squad catapulting into the line-up.

Angelo Zomegnan, the race organiser, insisted back in February that Astana's exclusion had nothing to do with the team's murky past.

Last year Astana's Eddy Mazzoleni nearly made a monkey of the Giro. Ivan Basso's brother-in-law got on the podium. It was his last professional result before being suspended as part of the Oil for Drugs investigation. He was given a two-year suspension but decided, at the age of 34, to retire.

It wasn't that which irked Zomegnan. Instead he took exception to the fact that Bruyneel planned to send only Janez Brajkovic as the team leader. The 24-year-old Slovenian led the Vuelta briefly in 2006 and is touted as a future grand tour star.

Unimpressed, Zomegnan wanted at least one of the big three – Contador, Leipheimer or Kloden – to race. Now they're all coming.

At the time Bruyneel touted Brajkovic as the probable Giro leader, Astana did not know their invite to the Tour de France was to be lost in the post. Permanently.

Since then the behind-the-scenes lobbying of the Giro organisers must have been powerful. For the small NGC team to give up its golden ticket, a considerable compensation package must have been offered. Or perhaps they were invited to Kazakhstan to 'see the sights' if you get what I mean.

Some may ask why both teams can't race. Well, there are rules regarding the maximum size of a field in a grand tour and having a 23rd team would bust that. Also, all the hotels have been booked for months in advance. Finding room for another team at this late stage would be a logistical nightmare – far easier to swap one team for another.

As a spectacle, though, the last thing the Giro needs is an Astana-led dominance like the one we saw at the Dauphiné Libéré last year. Total domination of an event by one team or rider is not an attractive spectacle.

However, total dominance is not a given. Contador has recently had major dental surgery and was on holiday when the call came. Leipheimer travelled to Italy from the United States at the weekend. Only Kloden has been racing seriously, and he won the Tour of Romandie.

But don't be mistaken. Astana will be ready. Bruyneel would not have discounted the possibility of a reprieve from the Giro and would have been planning accordingly. Astana's big three may not be at their peak but they will be ready.

One thing is for sure. The Giro's U-turn does not indicate that ASO is about to do the same.

As for the Giro, let's hope that the race is a credible event and that questions about Operacion Puerto, Freiburg and the like do not cast a long and ugly shadow.

And what happened to the buffalo? Well, as foreign riders found their careers halted by Operacion Puerto, the Spaniards carried on regardless and Gutierrez found a team for 2007. LPR Brakes.

This year he found himself surplus to requirements and out of a job as LPR signed Di Luca. Funny how it all works, isn't it.

Probably RCS want to avoid to make precedent by excluding teams with dirty past like Astana. Why ? Because a lot of Italian teams are under the threat of some old affairs...

Lionel Birnie in Cycling Weekly sums up how I feel about Astana at the Giro.

article below:
Tuesday 6th May 2008 - Lionel Birnie

Forgive me but my interest in this year's Giro d'Italia has just dropped through the floor.

The fans of Astana and Johan Bruyneel may well rejoice at the chance to see Alberto Contador, Andreas Kloden and Levi Leipheimer race in one of the grand tours.

But the last thing the Giro needs is an Astana-led procession.

The last-minute change of heart by the Giro's organiser, RCS, threatens the credibility of the race.

And, if we're being honest, the credibility of the Giro doesn't need another jolt.

The past two years have seen super-hard routes, back-loaded with insanely difficult mountain stages in the final week, descend into farce.

If it was a bit perplexing then, reflected on now, the 2006 race looks like a complete joke. Ivan Basso won it by more than nine minutes, exuding the aura of the greatest mountain climber ever born. Three weeks later he was prevented from starting the Tour de France when his links to Dr Eufamiano Fuentes were uncovered. Basso gave it the whole 'I made a few plans to dope but didn't actually do it' line but nevertheless took his punishment without complaint.

Runner-up was a man they nicknamed the buffalo because he was a lumbering beast. Yet Jose Enrique Gutierrez – who rode for Phonak (stop sniggering at the back, it gets better) – managed to follow Basso over the mountains and finished second, albeit a distant second.

His name, too, was in Fuentes' filofax of doom and he was 'withdrawn from racing' by Phonak. He wasn't sacked or suspended, he was just handed the rough end of a catchy euphemism.

Phonak's summer got worse when Floyd Landis failed a dope test at the Tour and the sponsor pulled out.

So the first two in the race had rather large question marks over them and third placed Gilberto Simoni was not slow in airing his concerns about them.

Last year, Danilo Di Luca, he of the child-like hormone values, won.

What? Don't be so cynical. He just loves mineral water, drank loads of it to rehydrate and his hormones went all funny. These things can happen.

In the face of an investigation into Di Luca's association with a banned doctor, Carlo Santuccione, the Liquigas rider was prevented from putting the seal on what would have been a second ProTour victory when he was stopped from riding the Tour of Lombardy.

Then he was banned for three months – a totally pointless gesture as it ran concurrently with the off-season, so unless Di Luca fancied a crack at the Six-Days or some cyclo-cross it was no punishment at all.

Liquigas did not renew his contract – odd considering they've now signed Basso. Di Luca found salvation at team LPR Brakes and will fancy his chances of the podium again, no doubt, despite Astana's stellar squad catapulting into the line-up.

Angelo Zomegnan, the race organiser, insisted back in February that Astana's exclusion had nothing to do with the team's murky past.

Last year Astana's Eddy Mazzoleni nearly made a monkey of the Giro. Ivan Basso's brother-in-law got on the podium. It was his last professional result before being suspended as part of the Oil for Drugs investigation. He was given a two-year suspension but decided, at the age of 34, to retire.

It wasn't that which irked Zomegnan. Instead he took exception to the fact that Bruyneel planned to send only Janez Brajkovic as the team leader. The 24-year-old Slovenian led the Vuelta briefly in 2006 and is touted as a future grand tour star.

Unimpressed, Zomegnan wanted at least one of the big three – Contador, Leipheimer or Kloden – to race. Now they're all coming.

At the time Bruyneel touted Brajkovic as the probable Giro leader, Astana did not know their invite to the Tour de France was to be lost in the post. Permanently.

Since then the behind-the-scenes lobbying of the Giro organisers must have been powerful. For the small NGC team to give up its golden ticket, a considerable compensation package must have been offered. Or perhaps they were invited to Kazakhstan to 'see the sights' if you get what I mean.

Some may ask why both teams can't race. Well, there are rules regarding the maximum size of a field in a grand tour and having a 23rd team would bust that. Also, all the hotels have been booked for months in advance. Finding room for another team at this late stage would be a logistical nightmare – far easier to swap one team for another.

As a spectacle, though, the last thing the Giro needs is an Astana-led dominance like the one we saw at the Dauphiné Libéré last year. Total domination of an event by one team or rider is not an attractive spectacle.

However, total dominance is not a given. Contador has recently had major dental surgery and was on holiday when the call came. Leipheimer travelled to Italy from the United States at the weekend. Only Kloden has been racing seriously, and he won the Tour of Romandie.

But don't be mistaken. Astana will be ready. Bruyneel would not have discounted the possibility of a reprieve from the Giro and would have been planning accordingly. Astana's big three may not be at their peak but they will be ready.

One thing is for sure. The Giro's U-turn does not indicate that ASO is about to do the same.

As for the Giro, let's hope that the race is a credible event and that questions about Operacion Puerto, Freiburg and the like do not cast a long and ugly shadow.

And what happened to the buffalo? Well, as foreign riders found their careers halted by Operacion Puerto, the Spaniards carried on regardless and Gutierrez found a team for 2007. LPR Brakes.

This year he found himself surplus to requirements and out of a job as LPR signed Di Luca. Funny how it all works, isn't it.

Very good piece - thanks for posting it.

Today, the Giro, after Kloden won Romandie.

In July, the Tour, after one of the Astana riders wins the Giro! ;)

This is a great outcome. We'll see how Simoni fares when he is against the three Astana leaders working together. :D And work together they will. Because apart from Bruyneel telling them what to do, each of them knows that the best way to increase the team's chances of a Tour spot (which each of them wants) is to have any of them win the Giro.

Contador's view of his form for the Giro. Sure doesn't sound overly confident.
http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo/ciclismo-voy-giro-objetivos-puedo/dasclm/20080506dasdaicic_1/Tes

Because apart from Bruyneel telling them what to do, each of them knows that the best way to increase the team's chances of a Tour spot (which each of them wants) is to have any of them win the Giro.
I would think that would make the ASO more suspicious. They seem to be the one organization that is not under the spell of Johan Bruyneel.

Today, the Giro, after Kloden won Romandie.

In July, the Tour, after one of the Astana riders wins the Giro! ;)

This is a great outcome. We'll see how Simoni fares when he is against the three Astana leaders working together. :D And work together they will. Because apart from Bruyneel telling them what to do, each of them knows that the best way to increase the team's chances of a Tour spot (which each of them wants) is to have any of them win the Giro. Nice to see you back. So, we can remove you from the suicide watch list? :p

I was just awaiting an opportune time -- and this is it! ;)

musette, newsflash - Astana will NOT be getting an invite to the Tour, not before the Giro or after. You've forgotten that RCS didn't want Astana because they were going to send a lousy team - nothing to do with the doping issue or the way Astana rider Mazzoleni disgraced the Giro last year. All Bruyneel ever had to do was promise to send a star laden team and Astana were in and, once the TdF invite wasn't coming his way, he offered all his firepower to the Giro. See that action alone says to me that Bruyneel knows the Tour invite won't be in the post - he didn't have to send Kloeden and Leipheimer and Contador, any of those 3 would have done and he'd have had a team leader for the Tour in reserve - it aint Bruyneel's style to go for a Giro/Tour double - too tricky with the 'preparation', you know.

The issue with ASO is nothing to do with whether the Tour would secure the presence of Dirty Bertie, 'I'm not heavily implicated in the Fribourg investigation at all' Kloeden and 'It's just a coincidence that Dr Ferrari always seems to book into the same hotels as me' Leipheimer - the issue is with the team and the appallingly bad odour of doping and corruption that hangs around them. The lack of Astana in the Tour de France won't diminish it at all in the eyes of the sponsors, the true fans or the core TV demographic - what a handful of ill informed fan boys and girls think will make not a jot of difference to Prudhomme. The Tour will be watched by millions throughout Europe as it always is and if the tiny US viewing figures dwindle it won't make a bit of difference - there are always casual fans, die hard fans, knowledgeable fans, families on a day out and the plain curious who will line the roads and switch on their TV sets.

Despite what Bruyneel and his minions fondly imagine, the Tour de France simply doesn't need Astana. And Astana certainly aren't bigger than the race or the sport.

Despite what Bruyneel and his minions fondly imagine, the Tour de France simply doesn't need Astana. And Astana certainly aren't bigger than the race or the sport.I don't disagree with that statement, Micron, but...

Every man has his price.
It just depends upon whether one is prepared to pay it.

I don't disagree with that statement, Micron, but...

Every man has his price.
It just depends upon whether one is prepared to pay it.

Prudhomme doesn't need Astana, simple as

I was just awaiting an opportune time -- and this is it! ;)
Another howling monkey.....

May 6, 2008 - 8:50PM

Tour de France organisers will stick by their ruling to bar 2007 champion Alberto Contador and his Astana team from this year's race despite the Giro d'Italia's decision to let them enter the Italian event.

Italian organisers changed their minds last week and afforded Contador's team a spot in the Giro, which starts Saturday.

But the Amaury Sport Organisation, which owns the Tour de France and other stage races including Paris-Nice, said Tuesday it will not change its decision to bar the team from all its events in 2008 following a series of doping violations.

"Our management took a decision. We will wait for one year," ASO spokesman Christophe Marchadier said by telephone. "One year to wait and see, and we will have another look next year."

ASO excluded Astana because of serious doping violations at the last two Tours.

Last year, Alexandre Vinokourov was caught blood-doping during the race and Andrej Kashechkin tested positive for the same offence in an out-of-competition test in Turkey a month later.

In 2006, several riders on the team - then known as Liberty Seguros - were kicked out on the eve of the Tour after being linked to the Operation Puerto blood-doping scandal in Spain.

In an interview with The Associated Press last month, Astana sporting director Johan Bruyneel called ASO's decision "extremely unfair, illogical, ridiculous and arrogant," saying other doping-tainted teams did not receive similar punishment.

Astana's riders also include former Tour runner-up Andreas Kloeden and Levi Leipheimer. The team is also scheduled to take part in the Spanish Vuelta, which begins August 30.

Contador joined the Kazakhstan-backed Astana team in October after his previous team, Discovery Channel, disbanded.

musette, newsflash - Astana will NOT be getting an invite to the Tour, not before the Giro or after. You've forgotten that RCS didn't want Astana because they were going to send a lousy team - nothing to do with the doping issue or the way Astana rider Mazzoleni disgraced the Giro last year. All Bruyneel ever had to do was promise to send a star laden team and Astana were in and, once the TdF invite wasn't coming his way, he offered all his firepower to the Giro. See that action alone says to me that Bruyneel knows the Tour invite won't be in the post - he didn't have to send Kloeden and Leipheimer and Contador, any of those 3 would have done and he'd have had a team leader for the Tour in reserve - it aint Bruyneel's style to go for a Giro/Tour double - too tricky with the 'preparation', you know.

The issue with ASO is nothing to do with whether the Tour would secure the presence of Dirty Bertie, 'I'm not heavily implicated in the Fribourg investigation at all' Kloeden and 'It's just a coincidence that Dr Ferrari always seems to book into the same hotels as me' Leipheimer - the issue is with the team and the appallingly bad odour of doping and corruption that hangs around them. The lack of Astana in the Tour de France won't diminish it at all in the eyes of the sponsors, the true fans or the core TV demographic - what a handful of ill informed fan boys and girls think will make not a jot of difference to Prudhomme. The Tour will be watched by millions throughout Europe as it always is and if the tiny US viewing figures dwindle it won't make a bit of difference - there are always casual fans, die hard fans, knowledgeable fans, families on a day out and the plain curious who will line the roads and switch on their TV sets.

Despite what Bruyneel and his minions fondly imagine, the Tour de France simply doesn't need Astana. And Astana certainly aren't bigger than the race or the sport.

'after his previous team disbanded' - what they neglect to say is that Discovery signed him and Paulhino (whilst under suspicion in OP) from, um, Astana...

musette, newsflash - Astana will NOT be getting an invite to the Tour, not before the Giro or after. You've forgotten that RCS didn't want Astana because they were going to send a lousy team - nothing to do with the doping issue or the way Astana rider Mazzoleni disgraced the Giro last year. All Bruyneel ever had to do was promise to send a star laden team and Astana were in and, once the TdF invite wasn't coming his way, he offered all his firepower to the Giro. See that action alone says to me that Bruyneel knows the Tour invite won't be in the post - he didn't have to send Kloeden and Leipheimer and Contador, any of those 3 would have done and he'd have had a team leader for the Tour in reserve - it aint Bruyneel's style to go for a Giro/Tour double - too tricky with the 'preparation', you know.

The issue with ASO is nothing to do with whether the Tour would secure the presence of Dirty Bertie, 'I'm not heavily implicated in the Fribourg investigation at all' Kloeden and 'It's just a coincidence that Dr Ferrari always seems to book into the same hotels as me' Leipheimer - the issue is with the team and the appallingly bad odour of doping and corruption that hangs around them. The lack of Astana in the Tour de France won't diminish it at all in the eyes of the sponsors, the true fans or the core TV demographic - what a handful of ill informed fan boys and girls think will make not a jot of difference to Prudhomme. The Tour will be watched by millions throughout Europe as it always is and if the tiny US viewing figures dwindle it won't make a bit of difference - there are always casual fans, die hard fans, knowledgeable fans, families on a day out and the plain curious who will line the roads and switch on their TV sets.

Despite what Bruyneel and his minions fondly imagine, the Tour de France simply doesn't need Astana. And Astana certainly aren't bigger than the race or the sport.I agree with your view that ASO won't be affected by Astana's inclusion in the Giro. I don't like doping, Bruyneel or Astana. But I find it a contradiction that some here think that Astana see themselves as bigger than the sport. When potentially the favorite for the event is effectively disallowed from competing based on subjective criteria. If it is about doping, why not the other doping teams be disallowed? If it's because they're too good...HUH???? I think ASO is acting bigger than the sport... but that is just MHO.

When I hear that fans are upset that Astana will be allowed to race the Giro, because now it won't be a close race, It is easier to see how doping apologism exists. It must have been a terrible time to watch cyling in the early 70's with Eddie winning nearly every race. What a bore.

I agree with your view that ASO won't be affected by Astana's inclusion in the Giro. I don't like doping, Bruyneel or Astana. But I find it a contradiction that some here think that Astana see themselves as bigger than the sport. When potentially the favorite for the event is effectively disallowed from competing based on subjective criteria. If it is about doping, why not the other doping teams be disallowed? If it's because they're too good...HUH???? I think ASO is acting bigger than the sport... but that is just MHO.

When I hear that fans are upset that Astana will be allowed to race the Giro, because now it won't be a close race, It is easier to see how doping apologism exists. It must have been a terrible time to watch cyling in the early 70's with Eddie winning nearly every race. What a bore.

I would think Astana/LS got the boot because they took the cake during the last two years. First, the whole Liberty-Seguros team got banned. T-Mobile got only 2 riders banned, CSC only one. The next year, Vino got busted for blood transfusion after winning a stage. The T-Mobile rider Sinkewitz got also busted, but only after he was out of the tour anyway. This compares maybe with Kash. Ras got thrown out of the tour which was probably the biggest publicity nightmare, but Rabobank apparently played with ASO and they didn't create problems the year before. So, if you look at the last two tours, LS/Astana was probably the worst of the teams. Could ASO ban High Road or CSC or maybe Rabobank based on doping? Probably, but ASO choose to make a statement with the arguably worst team. Is it fair? I think this depends on your point of view. You could reasonably argue both sides.