Triathlon question

[One Step Beyond]

Guys,

I know there are triathlon groups but this is cycling related so please allow me.....

I am quite a muscular guy (6 feet 2 and 16 st) and a newcomer to triathlon - I have not done one
yet. I aim to shed about 30lbs and get cut up and improve my fitness though I am reasonably fit now.
I can normally run 5 miles (35 minutes-ish) and I am working hard at this. I have a great bike and
cycle about 40 miles for training and I keep to the high cadence/lighter effort method.

My problem. I find that I simply cannot, no matter how hard I try, run further than about a mile
after getting off the bike. My legs are complete jelly and I feel strange and wobbly. I am not being
a big sissy here either - I am used to sporting effort in soccer and weight training. What do you
reckon here? Do you think that I am simply carrying too much weight and it'll get better as it comes
off? Is it one of those things that you simply have to grin and bare it?

What do you reckon to weight training in Triathlon? Does it have a part to play or should I cut it
down? I do three sessions a week at the moment. What about squats/leg extensions?

In short, how should a larger more muscular guy proceed in this sport?

Thanks.

[Tony W]

"One Step Beyond" <tinker-too@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bk4ik0$mh0i9$1@ID-179018.news.uni-berlin.de...

> My problem. I find that I simply cannot, no matter how hard I try, run further than about a mile
> after getting off the bike.

Seems a pretty fundamental problem given the normal order of triathlon events :~(

[Iain Robertson]

One Step Beyond wrote:

> My problem. I find that I simply cannot, no matter how hard I try, run further than about a mile
> after getting off the bike. My legs are complete jelly and I feel strange and wobbly. I am not
> being a big sissy here either - I am used to sporting effort in soccer and weight training. What
> do you reckon here? Do you think that I am simply carrying too much weight and it'll get better as
> it comes off? Is it one of those things that you simply have to grin and bare it?

This seems to be one of the most common 'problems' people have. Some advice I've found works:

In the last mile or so on the bike, *really* drop into a low gear, and just spin fast. Occasionally
pedaling backwards for 20-30 seconds or so seems to help too.

When you start the run, don't pay attention to how your legs feel - you'll always feel you're going
slower than you actually are. Control your pace by your breathing effort; that's a much better guide
to how you're exerting yourself. After a mile or so, you should feel that you're getting into your
normal runnign rhythm.

Iain

[Michael Macclan]

"One Step Beyond" <tinker-too@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bk4ik0$mh0i9$1@ID-179018.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Guys,
>
> I know there are triathlon groups but this is cycling related so please allow me.....
>
> I am quite a muscular guy (6 feet 2 and 16 st) and a newcomer to triathlon - I have not done one
> yet. I aim to shed about 30lbs and get cut up and improve my fitness though I am reasonably fit
> now. I can normally run 5 miles (35 minutes-ish) and I am working hard at this. I have a great
> bike and cycle about 40 miles for training and I keep to the high cadence/lighter effort method.
>
> My problem. I find that I simply cannot, no matter how hard I try, run further than about a mile
> after getting off the bike. My legs are complete jelly and I feel strange and wobbly. I am not
> being a big sissy here either - I am used to sporting effort in soccer and weight training. What
> do you reckon here? Do you think that I am simply carrying too much weight and it'll get better as
> it comes off? Is it one of those things that you simply have to grin and bare it?
>
> What do you reckon to weight training in Triathlon? Does it have a part to play or should I cut it
> down? I do three sessions a week at the moment. What about squats/leg extensions?
>
> In short, how should a larger more muscular guy proceed in this sport?
>
> Thanks.

I'll start off by saying that I'm no expert in this. I'm a newbie to multisport just like you. I'm
also somewhat the opposite of you as I'm a smallish lightweight. What I've read about and
experienced during bike/run transitions tells me that there's nothing particularly unusual about
your experience although not being able to run at all does seem rather extreme. Your running times
indicate that you're quite an accomplished runner so inexperience in this area is not likely to be
the problem.

It is normal to have this wobbly feeling when you start running. When cycling you use different
muscles to running and the length of the cycling stroke is less than your stride length. The usual
advice is to ignore your legs and concentrate on your breathing. You didn't mention being out of
breath so the problem seems to be this muscular 'malfunction' rather than oxygen deficit or some
other problem.

Having said that it might be the case that your muscles are running out of energy. Do you eat
and drink enough on the bike? The bike leg is the time to stock up on glycogen in preparation
for the run.

I wonder if another factor might not be the way in which you cycle. You suggest that you have a high
cadence but don't say what it is. Bigger, more powerful cyclists tend to have lower cadences than
smaller cyclists. (Lance Armstrong, the great proponent of higher cadences, is a smaller cyclist
than many and has written that many cyclists will be more comfortable with lower cadences than his.)
Perhaps you would be better with a cadence in the range 80-90 rather than the 85-95 that I like?

You might also consider having your bike fit checked. It may be the case that your cranks are too
short, encouraging a higher cadence than necessary and shortening your stroke length.

Another factor might be that you need to ease up a little when coming to the end of the bike leg. In
multisport the winner is the competitor who completes all disciplines in the minimum total time.
There's no point killing yourself on the bike if you can't run afterwards. The normal advice is to
use the last mile or so of the bike leg to increase your cadence and spin out your muscles. You
might also want to stretch your calves by pushing your heels down when coasting and stretch other
leg muscles by standing on the pedals. As a last resort stopping running and stretching before
starting again might help (it does when I get calf cramps).

Finally, I infer that you try to run immediately after cycling 40 miles. Actually this is a longer
cycle ride than you would normally do in your first multisport event. There are sprint duathlons
with run/bike/run distances in the order of 5/20/5 km and these are an excellent introduction. It
could be that you're simply overdoing it on the bike. Losing weight will almost certainly help you
perform better, provided you don't sacrifice useful muscle in doing so. Practicing the transition
will also enable you to overcome this problem.

My problem is that I can't change my shoes fast enough, but that's another thread!

Good luck.

Michael MacClancy

[Helen Deborah V]

Try to get a good boost of carbohydrate a few minutes before you start your run.

--
Helen D. Vecht: helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk Edgware.

[Cicero]

"One Step Beyond" <tinker-too@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bk4ik0$mh0i9$1@ID-179018.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Guys,
>
> I know there are triathlon groups but this is cycling related so please allow me.....
>
><snipped>

> My problem. I find that I simply cannot, no matter how hard I try, run further than about a mile
> after getting off the bike. My legs are
complete
> jelly and I feel strange and wobbly. I am not being a big sissy here either - I am used to
> sporting effort in soccer and weight training. What do you reckon here? Do you think that I am
> simply carrying too much
weight
> and it'll get better as it comes off? Is it one of those things that you simply have to grin and
> bare it?
>
><snipped>

In short, how should a larger more muscular guy proceed in this sport?
>
> Thanks.
>
==========
You could try 'the shuffle' to start your run or when you hit your 'wall'. This is a style of
running sometimes recommended when energy is low or even when slightly injured. Basically you take
short steps with very little leg raise. It's something like race walking technique but much less
energetic. It's not very elegant and it's not very efficient but it does keep you moving until you
get through a bad spell.

[jitteringjr]

This always helped me: The last kilometer or two depending on how long the bike leg was, I would stand in the saddle to get my legs more used to holding my weight. This also ment I was turning a bigger gear at a slower cadence. Not for for the reasons stated above, but because you simply can't spin as fast standing up. (I'm not trying to say anyone above is right or wrong above changing cadence up, I'm just saying what worked for me.)

Also, every time you finish training on the bike follow immediately with at least a one mile run at any pace. The quicker the transition the better. Park the bike switch shoes and go. The more you practice running off the bike, the easier the run becomes.

[Colin Blackburn]

In article <bk4ik0$mh0i9$1@ID-179018.news.uni-berlin.de>, tinker- too@yahoo.com says...
> Guys,
>
> I know there are triathlon groups but this is cycling related so please allow me.....
[...]
> My problem. I find that I simply cannot, no matter how hard I try, run further than about a mile
> after getting off the bike. My legs are complete jelly and I feel strange and wobbly.

I talked to a couple of triathletes at my (running) club run last night. The fact that you are new
to tri would seem to be a factor. The transitions can often be left out of specific training but
they need to be included. One guy does what he calls block sessions---I assume it is the right term
as he always buys 220. They sound like intervals which involve a bike ride followed by a run
repeated several times. I don't know the ins and outs but maybe you could take a look at 220
magazine or chat to someone at a club. If block sessions are anything like hill reps they will hurt
but they'll build the necessary strength in the right muscles.

Colin