Helmet saved my...

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

....noggin!

Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)

I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
close to 40 mph.

Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn ligaments
if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain). Road
rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).

Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my flat when
he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my friend Miles (of
world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.

Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
less cracked the crap out of it:

http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/ (server wouldn't allow more than
these three pics).

So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
tire?!?)...

Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill

On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:45:44 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
wrote:

>...noggin!
>
>Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
>around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
>Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
>I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
>oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
>try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
>close to 40 mph.
>
....

Ouch. Sympathy pains.

On May 30, 12:45 am, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> ...noggin!

Prepare yourself for a tidal wave of bull excrement from Franky
Krygowski, "jtaylor", Chapman, and the other Anti-Helmet Zealots
(AHZs): "If you weren't wearing a helmet, you wouldn't have hit your
head", etc., etc., etc.

Good luck!
>
> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> close to 40 mph.
>
> Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn ligaments
> if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain). Road
> rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my flat when
> he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my friend Miles (of
> world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
> shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> less cracked the crap out of it:
>
> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(server wouldn't allow more than
> these three pics).
>
> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...
>
> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill

Bill Sornson wrote, On 5/30/2008 1:45 AM:
> .<snip>
>
> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
> shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> less cracked the crap out of it:
>
> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/ (server wouldn't allow more than
> these three pics).
>
> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...
>
> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill
>
>
>
Bill,
I'm glad you've escaped more serious injuries and I hope that your
shoulder problem heals quickly. In the meantime, you should put on your
flame retardant suit because here come the flames...

--

Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)

> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I
> came around a turn.

This is indeed the nightmare scenario. Hope you get better soon, and
get some rehab for the shoulder. As for helmet usage, at 40mph going
downhill you need armor all over the body. I ride up and down a 12% grade
curvy mountain road with very rough pavement every week, and the possibility
of just such an accident occurring keeps my brakes in constant use -- I'll
never be a racer :)

rms

| Bill,
| I'm glad you've escaped more serious injuries and I hope that your
| shoulder problem heals quickly. In the meantime, you should put on your
| flame retardant suit because here come the flames...

They anti-helmet folk seem to be sleeping in late this morning...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Paul O" <first.d.last@company.com> wrote in message
news:g1p2mn$87g$1@news.nems.noaa.gov...
| Bill Sornson wrote, On 5/30/2008 1:45 AM:
| > .<snip>
| >
| > Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the
outside
| > shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
| > less cracked the crap out of it:
| >
| > http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/ (server wouldn't allow more than
| > these three pics).
| >
| > So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
| > feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow,
and
| > may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no
concussion,
| > cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
| > feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead
of
| > an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
| > tire?!?)...
| >
| > Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill
| >
| >
| >
| Bill,
| I'm glad you've escaped more serious injuries and I hope that your
| shoulder problem heals quickly. In the meantime, you should put on your
| flame retardant suit because here come the flames...
|
| --
|
| Paul D Oosterhout
| I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)
|

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> | Bill,
> | I'm glad you've escaped more serious injuries and I hope that your
> | shoulder problem heals quickly. In the meantime, you should put on your
> | flame retardant suit because here come the flames...
>
> They anti-helmet folk seem to be sleeping in late this morning...
>
>

I will save them the trouble with these possible replies, all in jest.

"How do you know your helmet saved you serious injury? I had a crash
just like that back in ought six. I came through it just fine and I
wasn't wearing a helmet. Bah!"

"Do you wear your helmet while driving your car (while walking, while
making breakfast, while taking a shower)? Bah!"

"Were you compensating for your helmet use by riding faster than you
would have otherwise? Bah!"

"Do you have any witnesses? Did anyone videotape your crash? How do we
know it really happened? This whole enchilada is anecdotal. How do we
know you didn't just make it all up? Bah!"

"Are you trying to convince the unenlightened that riding a bike is so
dangerous as to require headgear? Bah!"

On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:45:44 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
wrote:

>...noggin!
>
<snip>

I haven't even read any of the responses yet, but I'll bet there are
plenty of "helmets are uselesss" types.

Reminds me of my last big one. A truck ran a stop sign right in front
of me while I was cranking down a hill in the rain. I was either slam
into the truck or lay the bike down. I chose the latter. The guy who
was stopped at the intersection right behind the truck saw the whole
thing. His first comment when he reached me, "I don't believe he did
that." His second, "It's sure a good thing you're wearing a helmet.
When I saw your head hit the pavement..."

I didn't realize my head (helmet) had hit the pavement, but
examination of the helmet proved trhe point. I was a believer before
this incident, but I'm REALLY a believer now. :-)


--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

Paul O wrote:

> Bill,
> I'm glad you've escaped more serious injuries and I hope that your
> shoulder problem heals quickly. In the meantime, you should put on
> your flame retardant suit because here come the flames...

That's why I titled it like that. (Note I didn't say, "Helmet Saved My
LIFE!")

Bill "if I can't ride, then at least I can tweak an AHZ or two" S.

rms wrote:
>> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just
>> as I came around a turn.
>
> This is indeed the nightmare scenario. Hope you get better soon,
> and get some rehab for the shoulder. As for helmet usage, at 40mph
> going downhill you need armor all over the body. I ride up and down
> a 12% grade curvy mountain road with very rough pavement every week,
> and the possibility of just such an accident occurring keeps my
> brakes in constant use -- I'll never be a racer :)
>
> rms

Funny (not!) thing here is that the road (Via Capri in La Jolla) is rough
and torn up for the first half down, but has recently been re-paved on the
lower part. Where I crashed the road is nice and smooth.

Sigh.

BS

John Everett wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:45:44 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
> wrote:
>
>> ...noggin!
>>
> <snip>
>
> I haven't even read any of the responses yet, but I'll bet there are
> plenty of "helmets are uselesss" types.
>
> Reminds me of my last big one. A truck ran a stop sign right in front
> of me while I was cranking down a hill in the rain. I was either slam
> into the truck or lay the bike down. I chose the latter. The guy who
> was stopped at the intersection right behind the truck saw the whole
> thing. His first comment when he reached me, "I don't believe he did
> that." His second, "It's sure a good thing you're wearing a helmet.
> When I saw your head hit the pavement..."
>
> I didn't realize my head (helmet) had hit the pavement, but
> examination of the helmet proved trhe point. I was a believer before
> this incident, but I'm REALLY a believer now. :-)

I gotta admit I was pretty shocked to see how the lid had cracked. I've
bonked my (helmeted) head pretty good a few times mountain biking, and
there's hardly been any visual evidence of an impact.

The guy who stopped to help me was creamed by a woman running a red light at
50 mph about 9 months ago. Broke his neck, ribs, lower right leg, etc. He
takes it REAL easy going down hills now...as will I (at least for a while!).

One /possibility/ would be that without the lid I could have been knocked
unconscious, and not been able to scramble out of the road before the next
vehicle came flying around that blind curve. Of course, the AHZs won't
entertain such conjecture, but hey...

Bill "I'd be back out today (it's gorgeous) if not for the shoulder pain" S.

Bill Sornson <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>
> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)

<snip>

> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...

Ouuuch. Here's to hoping you heal well and quickly. I've never blown a
front time while going significantly fast thankfully. It's definitely
one of my least favorite thoughts about how to crash.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"That was possibly the only time in my entire career that somebody actually
noticed and cared to say that they were impressed by something I'd achieved.
These days, I could turn lead into gold, and I'd be whinged at because they
wanted platinum." -- Peter Corlett, in the Monastery

On May 30, 12:45 am, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:

> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job."  

Increasing the diameter of your head, thus causing a little scrape on
the shell, so you could go all goo goo like a fanatic.

It's pretty darn rare to have anything short of a little laceration on
the side of your head in a slide out where your shoulder takes the
brunt on the impact. As you didn't feel anything, I doubt helmet made
a difference in this particular crash, except to your wallet.

Wear one if ya want, especially when riding in groups--an activity I
find especially hazardous and unnecessary--they're great laceration
preventers, but they ain't magic. Especially the Kevlar ones the
troops use in Iraq--they don't prevent all those limbs being blown
off. Peanut butter will get that W sticker off.

Dane Buson wrote:
> Bill Sornson <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>>
>> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just
>> as I came around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing;
>> fairly new Michelin Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube
>> installation" issue.)
>
> <snip>
>
>> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up
>> shoulder I feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as
>> hell tomorrow, and may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will
>> tell), but no concussion, cracked skull, or hood
>> ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm feeling pretty
>> fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of an
>> obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
>> tire?!?)...
>
> Ouuuch. Here's to hoping you heal well and quickly. I've never
> blown a front time while going significantly fast thankfully. It's
> definitely one of my least favorite thoughts about how to crash.

Thanks. Same here ("nightmare scenario" as someone else called it). I
really think I could have stayed upright if I could have just gone
straight...but then again, I might be totally wrong about that. It SEEMED
like I had a chance until I had to turn. Scary feeling, that's for sure!

Bill "lefty (more than usual even)" S.

Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
> Bill Sornson <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>
> Ouuuch. Here's to hoping you heal well and quickly. I've never blown a
> front time while going significantly fast thankfully. It's definitely
^ tire - hell the 'r' isn't even *near* the 'm'
*grumble* *mumble*
> one of my least favorite thoughts about how to crash.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found
I've got a little list -- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground
And who never would be missed -- who never would be missed.
-- Koko, "The Mikado"

>
> I will save them the trouble with these possible replies, all in jest.
>
> "How do you know your helmet saved you serious injury? I had a crash just
> like that back in ought six. I came through it just fine and I wasn't
> wearing a helmet. Bah!"
>
> "Do you wear your helmet while driving your car (while walking, while
> making breakfast, while taking a shower)? Bah!"
>
> "Were you compensating for your helmet use by riding faster than you would
> have otherwise? Bah!"
>
> "Do you have any witnesses? Did anyone videotape your crash? How do we
> know it really happened? This whole enchilada is anecdotal. How do we
> know you didn't just make it all up? Bah!"
>
> "Are you trying to convince the unenlightened that riding a bike is so
> dangerous as to require headgear? Bah!"

That about covers it. Except for the one where they want you to go back and
do the accident again, this time without the helmet, so they will have
something with which to compare.

Pat in TX

> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job."

Increasing the diameter of your head, thus causing a little scrape on
the shell, so you could go all goo goo like a fanatic.

It's pretty darn rare to have anything short of a little laceration on
the side of your head in a slide out where your shoulder takes the
brunt on the impact. As you didn't feel anything, I doubt helmet made
a difference in this particular crash, except to your wallet.

Hey, howsabout you go out and duplicate his accident but without the helmet.
Then and only then will you be in a position to say anything about his
particular accident.

Pat wrote:
>> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job."
>
> Increasing the diameter of your head, thus causing a little scrape on
> the shell, so you could go all goo goo like a fanatic.

Why did you delete the link to pics showing that the helmet's foam core was
cracked in numerous places? (And BTW, there was more than just a "little
scrape" on the outer shell; it buckled from the impact.)

> It's pretty darn rare to have anything short of a little laceration on
> the side of your head in a slide out where your shoulder takes the
> brunt on the impact. As you didn't feel anything, I doubt helmet made
> a difference in this particular crash, except to your wallet.

It was a $20 helmet (brand new). It's clear that when I landed hard on my
right shoulder, my head BOUNCED on the pavement. (And yes, my neck and
upper chest are very sore today, similar to a bad car accident.) If you
want to assert that it made no difference, then I want to assert that you're
either just flat wrong or -- more likely probably -- trolling.

> Hey, howsabout you go out and duplicate his accident but without the
> helmet. Then and only then will you be in a position to say anything
> about his particular accident.

You first.

BS

> That about covers it. Except for the one where they want you to go back
> and do the accident again, this time without the helmet, so they will have
> something with which to compare.
>
> Pat in TX

I don't understand why people have trouble with that request. Seems like the
only way to really validate each claim to me.

I just had an idea. Why not have the Mythbusters folk test bicycle helmets?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Pat" <extex@tmail.com> wrote in message
news:6abb3hF3717vuU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>
>> I will save them the trouble with these possible replies, all in jest.
>>
>> "How do you know your helmet saved you serious injury? I had a crash
>> just like that back in ought six. I came through it just fine and I
>> wasn't wearing a helmet. Bah!"
>>
>> "Do you wear your helmet while driving your car (while walking, while
>> making breakfast, while taking a shower)? Bah!"
>>
>> "Were you compensating for your helmet use by riding faster than you
>> would have otherwise? Bah!"
>>
>> "Do you have any witnesses? Did anyone videotape your crash? How do we
>> know it really happened? This whole enchilada is anecdotal. How do we
>> know you didn't just make it all up? Bah!"
>>
>> "Are you trying to convince the unenlightened that riding a bike is so
>> dangerous as to require headgear? Bah!"
>
> That about covers it. Except for the one where they want you to go back
> and do the accident again, this time without the helmet, so they will have
> something with which to compare.
>
> Pat in TX
>

On May 30, 1:45 am, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> ...noggin!
>
> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> close to 40 mph.
>
> Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn ligaments
> if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain). Road
> rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my flat when
> he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my friend Miles (of
> world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
> shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> less cracked the crap out of it:
>
> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(server wouldn't allow more than
> these three pics).
>
> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...
>
> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill

:-) Wonderful!

You touched your helmet to the ground so gently that you weren't even
aware you had done it.

Your fragile foam cap apparently did not crush (the mechanism by which
they are purported to "save you") but instead failed by cracking,
apparently due to tensile stresses tangential to the shell. IOW, it
failed in a non-protective way.

And you assume this is a sign from the helmet gods that you must
quickly do missionary work? Your gullibility rating is off the chart!

If you really want to get heavily into missionary work, Bill, do
this: Wear a helmet that's even bigger. Try for one about 20 inches
in diameter.

But make it even more fragile than the current offerings. Make it
just a network of paper-thin webs of styrofoam connecting a few
hundred large holes. (You can say it's "super-ventilated.") Then
ride in it, walk in it, hike in it, play golf in it...

I'm sure you'll soon accumulate many satisfying cracks and dents.
Hell, it will probably "save your noggin" dozens of times a day.
That should be enough to convince even more heathens that they need
salvation from helmetlessness!

If they're gullible enough, that is.

- Frank Krygowski