"hit him back first"

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A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
committed the crime of running a stop sign
(guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
Finally he peels away.

Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
him... does mma cover this?

For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
through anyone's nose.

My question is, are you prepared for this sort
of thing, do you have your kata down?
Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?


Sam

Sam the Bam wrote:
> A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
> committed the crime of running a stop sign
> (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
> still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
> gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
> Finally he peels away.
>
> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
> Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> him... does mma cover this?
>
> For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
> then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
> anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
> through anyone's nose.
>
> My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> of thing, do you have your kata down?
> Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?

Just laugh at him and let him go. He's not worth the concern.

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:53:59 -0700, Sam the Bam wrote:

> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'

No. He wasn't a threat and was probably just worried that you were
"setting a bad example" or something goofy like that.


> Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes...

The Bartitsu Compendium contains an early 1900's article: 'Self-Protection
on a Bicycle'.

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

Sam who? wrote:

> A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out riding my bicycle, some
> nut job on another bike chases me, screaming. It seems I committed
> the crime of running a stop sign (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls
> along side, still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another gasket, hahaha!
> It's worth the price of admission. Finally he peels away.

> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?' Not that I
> could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe Sakuraba could pull off
> some kind of move, but I'm not him... does mma cover this?

> For a moment I thought he might try to ram me, then I would have
> gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying anything, but I'm confident I can
> put my knuckles through anyone's nose.

> My question is, are you prepared for this sort of thing, do you have
> your kata down? Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?

I think I know that guy. He's the one who shouts at the top of his
voice across 4x4 light controlled intersections: "Where's your
helmet?" He's hard to recognize other than by his actions because he
wears all the "jersey-pro" stuff including wraparound dark sun glasses
even on rainy days or after dusk.

Jobst Brandt

In article
<0e145f2e-33ee-49f5-9c49-abd8455492f1@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Sam the Bam <samthebam1@lycos.com> wrote:

> A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
> committed the crime of running a stop sign
> (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
> still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
> gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
> Finally he peels away.
>
> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
> Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> him... does mma cover this?
>
> For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
> then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
> anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
> through anyone's nose.
>
> My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> of thing, do you have your kata down?
> Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?

These simple training videos will explain the inner secrets of Bike Fu
(it's a mixed-up martial art):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QwKaeWkYbqk

Self-defence means you must always be prepared. An attack can come from
anywhere:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIKFiZhrRzg

As with any martial art, learning to fall correctly is important:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qMAJf-hf1Zk&feature=related

Remember, your preparation must be both physical and mental. Bike racers
are very good at mixed martial arts, because they are already mental.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

"Sam the Bam" <samthebam1@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:0e145f2e-33ee-49f5-9c49-abd8455492f1@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
> committed the crime of running a stop sign
> (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
> still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
> gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
> Finally he peels away.
>
> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
> Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> him... does mma cover this?
>
> For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
> then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
> anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
> through anyone's nose.
>
> My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> of thing, do you have your kata down?
> Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?
>

Pull your pump out and stick it through his spokes.

Fraser

On Jun 3, 12:05 pm, "Fraser Johnston" <ftr...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> "Sam the Bam" <samtheb...@lycos.com> wrote in messagenews:0e145f2e-33ee-49f5-9c49-abd8455492f1@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> > riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> > bike chases me, screaming.  It seems I
> > committed the crime of running a stop sign
> > (guilty guilty guilty).  He pulls along side,
> > still yelling.  I ignore him.  He's foaming at the
> > mouth.  I run another stop sign, he blows another
> > gasket, hahaha!  It's worth the price of admission.
> > Finally he peels away.
>
> > Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
> > Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> > Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> > him...  does mma cover this?
>
> > For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
> > then I would have gone apeshit.  I wasn't carrying
> > anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
> > through anyone's nose.
>
> > My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> > of thing, do you have your kata down?
> > Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> > aggressive move?  Where is the point of no return?
>
> Pull your pump out and stick it through his spokes.
>
> Fraser- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I saw that movie.

But in Blues Brothers 2000 a bag of carpet tacks (or were they drywall
nails - movie trivia) sends the car flying and breaks the Russian
watches. Certainly worth trying.

> A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> bike chases me, screaming.  It seems I
> committed the crime of running a stop sign
> (guilty guilty guilty).  He pulls along side,
> still yelling.  I ignore him.  He's foaming at the
> mouth.  I run another stop sign, he blows another
> gasket, hahaha!  It's worth the price of admission.
> Finally he peels away.

Ignore him.

That being said, it does annoy me when bike riders piss and moan about
having the right to ride on the streets, but then they can't even
follow simple rules and traffic signs.

> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'

Only if you feel he presents an immediate threat to you.

> Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> him...  does mma cover this?

Hell, a simple kick would probably do - just knock his ass off the
bike.

> For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
> then I would have gone apeshit.  I wasn't carrying
> anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
> through anyone's nose.

Assuming you aren't lying in a heap from him ramming you.

> My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> of thing, do you have your kata down?

Which one had the bike moves in it...?

> Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> aggressive move?  

Depends on the situation. If I feel confident that someone is going
to make an aggressive move, I have no qualms about making one first.

> Where is the point of no return?

Just inside the Schwarzschild radius.

Shuurai wrote:
>> A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
>> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
>> bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
>> committed the crime of running a stop sign
>> (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
>> still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
>> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
>> gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
>> Finally he peels away.
>
> Ignore him.
>
> That being said, it does annoy me when bike riders piss and moan about
> having the right to ride on the streets, but then they can't even
> follow simple rules and traffic signs.
>

No kidding.. Though the 'piss and moan' bit kinda points out a bias..
I'd refer you to your local rules/regs for vehicles, but I'm not sure
what it says in your area... If it's anything like up here though, it
would be right up there with pissing/moaning about motorcycles using the
road..


That said, there are assholes in all mediums, and cyclists are not
immune. Case in point would be the standard big-city bike messenger.
They'll weave, bob, cut off, hop onto sidewalk, whatever it takes.

> > That being said, it does annoy me when bike riders piss and moan about
> > having the right to ride on the streets, but then they can't even
> > follow simple rules and traffic signs.
>
> No kidding.. Though the 'piss and moan' bit kinda points out a bias..

Not really. I ride a lot myself; I just follow the rules.

> I'd refer you to your local rules/regs for vehicles, but I'm not sure
> what it says in your area...  If it's anything like up here though, it
> would be right up there with pissing/moaning about motorcycles using the
> road..

Basically, if you're riding your bike in traffic you follow the same
rules as everyone else. That means obeying signs and lights.

> That said, there are assholes in all mediums, and cyclists are not
> immune. Case in point would be the standard big-city bike messenger.
> They'll weave, bob, cut off, hop onto sidewalk, whatever it takes.

Locally they've started putting cops on bikes and pulling these folks
over. It's funny as hell to see.

Shuurai wrote:
>>> That being said, it does annoy me when bike riders piss and moan about
>>> having the right to ride on the streets, but then they can't even
>>> follow simple rules and traffic signs.
>> No kidding.. Though the 'piss and moan' bit kinda points out a bias..
>
> Not really. I ride a lot myself; I just follow the rules.
>
>> I'd refer you to your local rules/regs for vehicles, but I'm not sure
>> what it says in your area... If it's anything like up here though, it
>> would be right up there with pissing/moaning about motorcycles using the
>> road..
>
> Basically, if you're riding your bike in traffic you follow the same
> rules as everyone else. That means obeying signs and lights.
>
>> That said, there are assholes in all mediums, and cyclists are not
>> immune. Case in point would be the standard big-city bike messenger.
>> They'll weave, bob, cut off, hop onto sidewalk, whatever it takes.
>
> Locally they've started putting cops on bikes and pulling these folks
> over. It's funny as hell to see.
Sweet!!

:D
P.

On Jun 3, 10:19 am, Joao <throatwarb...@mangrove.br> wrote:
> Sam the Bam wrote:
> > A minor confrontation yesterday...
>
> Reminds me of something that happened to me a couple f years ago. I was
> test-riding a streamliner type bicycle (google if you don't know what
> that is)

So how do you get in and out of one of those things?

Pierre

"Sam the Bam" <samthebam1@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:0e145f2e-33ee-49f5-9c49-abd8455492f1@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
> committed the crime of running a stop sign
> (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
> still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
> gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
> Finally he peels away.
>
> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'

Generally, if you mean self-defense in legal terms, not unless you
*reasonably* believe the use of force was immediately necessary to protect
yourself against his use or attempted use of unlawful force. (That means you
have to believe it and that a hypothetically reasonable person would believe
it.) IMO what you've described doesn't warrant the use of force under that
standard but if could convince a jury that you reasonably believed the guy
was about to hit you, no crime (won't necessarily stop him from suing,
though).

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT), Sam the Bam
<samthebam1@lycos.com> may have said:

>A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
>riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
>bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
>committed the crime of running a stop sign
>(guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
>still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
>mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
>gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
>Finally he peels away.
>
>Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
>Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
>Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
>him... does mma cover this?
>
>For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
>then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
>anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
>through anyone's nose.
>
>My question is, are you prepared for this sort
>of thing, do you have your kata down?
>Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
>aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?

There are many answers.

You may be under a legal requirement to wait until you have been
physically assalted, or you may not; there may be some clear point
beyond which physical measures are deemd defensive, but you'd have to
sonsult with authorities in your area to determine what they are.

IMO, the approach you took was adequate; someone going apeshit over a
common practice is prima facie not fully in contact with reality. (I
will ignore the fact that the law itself, as well as those who are
obliged to enforce it, may be equally disconnected.) As such,
minimizing your interaction - which includes *staying in motion* as a
means of limiting the other person's opportunities to act, was prudent
as far as I'm concerned.

It is probably fruitless to speculate about outcomes had a different
path been taken; it wasn't, and even ex post facto plans come under
the old rule "no intricate plan of battle ever survives the first
encounter with the enemy unscathed."



--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT), Sam the Bam
<samthebam1@lycos.com> wrote:


>My question is, are you prepared for this sort
>of thing, do you have your kata down?
>Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
>aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?

how exactly do you hit someone back, first? If you hit first, you
aren't hitting them back.

and yes, you MUST wait until someone makes the first aggressive move.


Hal

On Jun 3, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> >My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> >of thing, do you have your kata down?
> >Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> >aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?
>
> how exactly do you hit someone back, first? I
> f you hit first, you aren't hitting them back.

Check aikido...

> and yes, you MUST wait until someone makes the
> first aggressive move.

I'll add 'legal beagle' to the rest of your list
of accomplishments.

Sam

On Jun 3, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
> > Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> > Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> > him... does mma cover this?
>
> > My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> > of thing, do you have your kata down?
> > Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> > aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?
>
> These simple training videos will explain the inner secrets
> of Bike Fu (it's a mixed-up martial art):
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=QwKaeWkYbqk

Comic technique, but full marks for spirit.

> Self-defence means you must always be prepared.
> An attack can come from anywhere:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIKFiZhrRzg

Justice! Some people deserve a killin...

> As with any martial art, learning to fall correctly is important:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=qMAJf-hf1Zk&feature=related

That's why I always cycle on a mat.

> Remember, your preparation must be both physical and
> mental. Bike racers are very good at mixed martial arts,
> because they are already mental.

it's nothing llke motorcycle racing, tho... that's
how they train Al Qeda Fu...


Sam

On Jun 3, Shuurai <Shuura...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
> > riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
> > bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
> > committed the crime of running a stop sign
> > (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
> > still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
> > mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
> > gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
>
> > Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
>
> Only if you feel he presents an immediate threat to you.

I'm not sure... he was riding right next
to me, practically spraying the saliva in my face...

> > Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
> > Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
> > him... does mma cover this?
>
> Hell, a simple kick would probably do - just knock his
> ass off the bike.

A side kick, while we're both riding? I dunno,
I think you'd have to be a TKD warrior...

> > For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
> > then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
> > anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
> > through anyone's nose.
>
> Assuming you aren't lying in a heap from him ramming you.

True, the times I fell from my bike,
I didn't rise none too quick...

> > My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> > of thing, do you have your kata down?
>
> Which one had the bike moves in it...?

Pinan 3?

> > Where is the point of no return?
>
> Just inside the Schwarzschild radius.

4/5


Sam

"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> writes:

> Sam the Bam wrote:
>> A minor confrontation yesterday... I'm out
>> riding my bicycle, some nut job on another
>> bike chases me, screaming. It seems I
>> committed the crime of running a stop sign
>> (guilty guilty guilty). He pulls along side,
>> still yelling. I ignore him. He's foaming at the
>> mouth. I run another stop sign, he blows another
>> gasket, hahaha! It's worth the price of admission.
>> Finally he peels away.
>>
>> Now does that constitute a 'self defense situation?'
>> Not that I could do much, we're both on bikes... maybe
>> Sakuraba could pull off some kind of move, but I'm not
>> him... does mma cover this?
>>
>> For a moment I thought he might try to ram me,
>> then I would have gone apeshit. I wasn't carrying
>> anything, but I'm confident I can put my knuckles
>> through anyone's nose.
>>
>> My question is, are you prepared for this sort
>> of thing, do you have your kata down?
>> Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
>> aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?
>
> Just laugh at him and let him go. He's not worth the concern.

Seconded.

--
BOFH excuse #42:

spaghetti cable cause packet failure

On Jun 3, 4:07 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT), Sam the Bam
>
> <samtheb...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >My question is, are you prepared for this sort
> >of thing, do you have your kata down?
> >Do you wait for the enemy to make the first
> >aggressive move? Where is the point of no return?
>
> how exactly do you hit someone back, first? If you hit first, you
> aren't hitting them back.
>
> and yes, you MUST wait until someone makes the first aggressive move.

Not in Canada.

Pierre