Shoes Company Conspiracy

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Emengy

Hi,

I had two running shoes in perfectly good condition at my drawer, and decided to use them after
about 1 year of lack of use. After some a week of use I found out that the sole separated from the
shoe body, It seem as the rubber start to crumble. My first thought was that maybe they where
already in bad condition when I took them out of the drawer then I got the second pair just to find
out that after about a month of use the same thing happen again.

Someone told me that this is a conspiracy of the shoes company and any running shoe that left for a
long period of time start to crumble because of the special rubber in the sole must have continues
pressure or fail.

Did you encounter with the same phenomenon? Or know if this is true? Are all shoes company use the
same material in there soles or can I find some more resistance shoes out there?

Thanx.

Sats

John R . Rybock

On 16 Sep 2003 04:46:24 -0700, emengy@hotmail.com (emengy) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I had two running shoes in perfectly good condition at my drawer, and decided to use them after
>about 1 year of lack of use. After some a week of use I found out that the sole separated from the
>shoe body, It seem as the rubber start to crumble. My first thought was that maybe they where
>already in bad condition when I took them out of the drawer then I got the second pair just to find
>out that after about a month of use the same thing happen again.
>
>Someone told me that this is a conspiracy of the shoes company and any running shoe that left for a
>long period of time start to crumble because of the special rubber in the sole must have continues
>pressure or fail.
>
>Did you encounter with the same phenomenon? Or know if this is true? Are all shoes company use the
>same material in there soles or can I find some more resistance shoes out there?
>
>Thanx.

Doubt it's a conspiracy if it is true. Shoes are bought to be worn and used, so very few people buy
a pair and bury them in the closet for a year. The real people who would see this as a problem are
the retailers, who may have an inventory problem if the shoes become defective. What would end up
happening, in those cases, is the shoe maker would have to take the shoes back because they are
"suddenly" defective (costing them money), or retailers would learn to steer clear of those brands,
or carry a lower stock of them, again, costing the company money. Doesn't seem to be much in the
shoe company's interest to intentionally have shoes that fail from non-use.

Again, that is if it is true.

Bigsky

I'll stock up on a favorite shoe when they go on clearance, buying up to four pairs sometimes. I've
never experienced a durability issue. Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes
lose about 5% cushioning each year when stored in a cool, dry environment.

emengy@hotmail.com (emengy) wrote in message
news:<a05e2b5a.0309160346.54b4db4e@posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
>
> I had two running shoes in perfectly good condition at my drawer, and decided to use them after
> about 1 year of lack of use. After some a week of use I found out that the sole separated from the
> shoe body, It seem as the rubber start to crumble. My first thought was that maybe they where
> already in bad condition when I took them out of the drawer then I got the second pair just to
> find out that after about a month of use the same thing happen again.
>
> Someone told me that this is a conspiracy of the shoes company and any running shoe that left for
> a long period of time start to crumble because of the special rubber in the sole must have
> continues pressure or fail.
>
> Did you encounter with the same phenomenon? Or know if this is true? Are all shoes company use the
> same material in there soles or can I find some more resistance shoes out there?
>
> Thanx.

Globaldisc

Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes lose about 5% cushioning each year
when stored in a cool, dry environment.
___

I did a quick search over there but I could not find it....anyone have a link to this article? I
don't buy it and wanted to read if this in fact was an opinion, an actual scientific study, etc.
We're talking about the "half-life" of inorganic matertials and their physical construction and
design. Furthermore an across the board generalization like this strikes as baseless when you
consider the array of different physical properties, materials, designs, technologies used in the
running shoe world to derive "cushioning". Sounds to me like nothing but Runner's Folklore...

Maybe air bladder based cushioning might be sensitive to time sitting in a box....however I even
doubt that for a single year. Mizuno wave cushioning in the heel & mid-sole with that patented
single plastic-like piece like a pair of Creations?...No Way.

I see nothing in the design/materials of a pair of Ascis Gel Racer V for example that would
suggest boxed/untouched for a year...that shoe will lost about 5% of its cushioning...heel,
midsole, or forefoot.

Think about it...if this 5% cushioning "loss" after a year of being boxed/closeted factory
fresh/new were true...just think about how much loss would occur to cushioning after using a shoe
one time for 5 miles, or 10 times for 50 miles? Would there be any cushioning left at all after 100
miles real use?

Wastenotwantnot

globaldisc@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote in message
news:<20030917084800.23341.00000832@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes lose about 5% cushioning each year
> when stored in a cool, dry environment.
> ___
>
> I did a quick search over there but I could not find it....anyone have a link to this article? I
> don't buy it and wanted to read if this in fact was an opinion, an actual scientific study, etc.
> We're talking about the "half-life" of inorganic matertials and their physical construction and
> design. Furthermore an across the board generalization like this strikes as baseless when you
> consider the array of different physical properties, materials, designs, technologies used in the
> running shoe world to derive "cushioning". Sounds to me like nothing but Runner's Folklore...
>
> Maybe air bladder based cushioning might be sensitive to time sitting in a box....however I even
> doubt that for a single year. Mizuno wave cushioning in the heel & mid-sole with that patented
> single plastic-like piece like a pair of Creations?...No Way.
>
> I see nothing in the design/materials of a pair of Ascis Gel Racer V for example that would
> suggest boxed/untouched for a year...that shoe will lost about 5% of its cushioning...heel,
> midsole, or forefoot.
>
> Think about it...if this 5% cushioning "loss" after a year of being boxed/closeted factory
> fresh/new were true...just think about how much loss would occur to cushioning after using a shoe
> one time for 5 miles, or 10 times for 50 miles? Would there be any cushioning left at all after
> 100 miles real use?

There is a slight perishability factor to running shoes. Notice how the new pair smells. That's the
glue and driers in the plastic and foam. Think of your car dash board that cracks after years. When
the plasticizers leave the product it gets more brittle. Think of an old tire, maybe a bike tire.
They crack fast. The 5% figure might be reasonable for the first year and then it might taper off in
subsequent years. I have never seen a study on it. It's not a conspiracy.

Onemarathon

In article <20030917084800.23341.00000832@mb-m19.aol.com>, globaldisc@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote:

> Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes lose about 5% cushioning each year
> when stored in a cool, dry environment.
> ___
>
> I did a quick search over there but I could not find it....anyone have a link to this article? I
> don't buy it and wanted to read if this in fact was an opinion, an actual scientific study, etc.
> We're talking about the "half-life" of inorganic matertials and their physical construction and
> design. Furthermore an across the board generalization like this strikes as baseless when you
> consider the array of different physical properties, materials, designs, technologies used in the
> running shoe world to derive "cushioning". Sounds to me like nothing but Runner's Folklore...
>
> Maybe air bladder based cushioning might be sensitive to time sitting in a box....however I even
> doubt that for a single year. Mizuno wave cushioning in the heel & mid-sole with that patented
> single plastic-like piece like a pair of Creations?...No Way.
>
> I see nothing in the design/materials of a pair of Ascis Gel Racer V for example that would
> suggest boxed/untouched for a year...that shoe will lost about 5% of its cushioning...heel,
> midsole, or forefoot.
>
> Think about it...if this 5% cushioning "loss" after a year of being boxed/closeted factory
> fresh/new were true...just think about how much loss would occur to cushioning after using a shoe
> one time for 5 miles, or 10 times for 50 miles? Would there be any cushioning left at all after
> 100 miles real use?

i recently started a part time job in a running shoe/clothing store, i have learned a few things
about shoes that i didn't know before.

one of them was that the EVA (especially, because it is less durable) and polyurethane used in the
midsole harden up over time. i don't know the scientific reason WHY, but this is just a property of
this sort of material, which happens to be an effective cushion under the foot - for a while. and
this will happen regardless of how much wear and tear there is on the shoe, or how many miles you've
logged on it. so it is very true that someone who has hardly used their 1 or 2 year old pair of
runners will still have to replace them. the cushioning will just GO.

just pressing on the midsole will give you a clue as to how far gone it is - is the rubber hard or
soft? not sure about the outsole, but probably a similar story. perhaps room temperature and
humidity level can lengthen or shorten a shoe's life.

just my measly two cents worth,

Cam

--
Not every race can be a perfect experience, but every race can be a learning experience.

Bigsky

It's in the July 03 edition on page 22. A reader asks if discounted shoes are okay. The response
isn't too long so I'll quote it all. The phrase "Some materials experts believe" shows that no study
was done. I often run in shoes that have been stored up to a year or two and personally notice no
difference. Here is the answer given by Runners World:

"Most likely. Assuming the shoes were stored properly (no extremes of heat or cold), they are
porbably fine. In fact, you can get some great bargains by buying discountinued shoes. Many times,
they are 50% off the original retail price. Still, you should know that the materials of a shoe do
deteriorate over time. Some materials experts believe the midsole degrades aprox 5% (or more) for
each year the shoe is stored. If it has deteriorated, the midsole will become harder and start to
look yellow. A shoe that has been stored for several years may not last as long as a brand new pair,
but in other respects it shold be just fine ."

Tramps like us... baby we were born to run.

globaldisc@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote in message
news:<20030917084800.23341.00000832@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes lose about 5% cushioning each year
> when stored in a cool, dry environment.
> ___
>
> I did a quick search over there but I could not find it....anyone have a link to this article? I
> don't buy it and wanted to read if this in fact was an opinion, an actual scientific study, etc.
> We're talking about the "half-life" of inorganic matertials and their physical construction and
> design. Furthermore an across the board generalization like this strikes as baseless when you
> consider the array of different physical properties, materials, designs, technologies used in the
> running shoe world to derive "cushioning". Sounds to me like nothing but Runner's Folklore...
>
> Maybe air bladder based cushioning might be sensitive to time sitting in a box....however I even
> doubt that for a single year. Mizuno wave cushioning in the heel & mid-sole with that patented
> single plastic-like piece like a pair of Creations?...No Way.
>
> I see nothing in the design/materials of a pair of Ascis Gel Racer V for example that would
> suggest boxed/untouched for a year...that shoe will lost about 5% of its cushioning...heel,
> midsole, or forefoot.
>
> Think about it...if this 5% cushioning "loss" after a year of being boxed/closeted factory
> fresh/new were true...just think about how much loss would occur to cushioning after using a shoe
> one time for 5 miles, or 10 times for 50 miles? Would there be any cushioning left at all after
> 100 miles real use?

Da Man

On 18 Sep 2003 12:28:18 -0700, runfast155@yahoo.com (bigsky) wrote:

> shold

Who'd take advice from a mag that can't spell "should" ?

Wastenotwantnot

runfast155@yahoo.com (bigsky) wrote in message
news:<c402c1dd.0309181128.4092542e@posting.google.com>...
> It's in the July 03 edition on page 22. A reader asks if discounted shoes are okay. The response
> isn't too long so I'll quote it all. The phrase "Some materials experts believe" shows that no
> study was done. I often run in shoes that have been stored up to a year or two and personally
> notice no difference. Here is the answer given by Runners World:
>
> "Most likely. Assuming the shoes were stored properly (no extremes of heat or cold), they are
> porbably fine. In fact, you can get some great bargains by buying discountinued shoes. Many times,
> they are 50% off the original retail price. Still, you should know that the materials of a shoe do
> deteriorate over time. Some materials experts believe the midsole degrades aprox 5% (or more) for
> each year the shoe is stored. If it has deteriorated, the midsole will become harder and start to
> look yellow. A shoe that has been stored for several years may not last as long as a brand new
> pair, but in other respects it shold be just fine ."
>
>
> Tramps like us... baby we were born to run.
>
>
> globaldisc@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote in message
> news:<20030917084800.23341.00000832@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> > Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes lose about 5% cushioning each year
> > when stored in a cool, dry environment.
> > ___
> >
> > I did a quick search over there but I could not find it....anyone have a link to this article? I
> > don't buy it and wanted to read if this in fact was an opinion, an actual scientific study, etc.
> > We're talking about the "half-life" of inorganic matertials and their physical construction and
> > design. Furthermore an across the board generalization like this strikes as baseless when you
> > consider the array of different physical properties, materials, designs, technologies used in
> > the running shoe world to derive "cushioning". Sounds to me like nothing but Runner's
> > Folklore...
> >
> > Maybe air bladder based cushioning might be sensitive to time sitting in a box....however I even
> > doubt that for a single year. Mizuno wave cushioning in the heel & mid-sole with that patented
> > single plastic-like piece like a pair of Creations?...No Way.
> >
> > I see nothing in the design/materials of a pair of Ascis Gel Racer V for example that would
> > suggest boxed/untouched for a year...that shoe will lost about 5% of its cushioning...heel,
> > midsole, or forefoot.
> >
> > Think about it...if this 5% cushioning "loss" after a year of being boxed/closeted factory
> > fresh/new were true...just think about how much loss would occur to cushioning after using a
> > shoe one time for 5 miles, or 10 times for 50 miles? Would there be any cushioning left at all
> > after 100 miles real use?

Well, I hope everybody saw the big news story yesterday about old tires being unsafe. Even unused
tires that look perfect can blow because they have deteriorated In unseen ways. They are pushing for
a tire expiration date. So it makes sense that a running shoe would lose critical resiliency even
quicker because of the volatile compounds used.

Billx

Its been a long while since my Material Engineering class in college but I seem to recall the
primary reason for rubber products like tires hardening is the introduction of Sulfer from air borne
pollutants. I would expect the rubber on shoes stored in tightly closed box that weren't exposed to
heat not to harden measurably over a period of 3-5 years. Might be concerned over glue compounds
breaking down.

"WasteNotWantNot" <willy.2.boxwagon@neverbox.com> wrote in message
news:c829095e.0309250738.1f69d9f8@posting.google.com...
> runfast155@yahoo.com (bigsky) wrote in message
news:<c402c1dd.0309181128.4092542e@posting.google.com>...
> > It's in the July 03 edition on page 22. A reader asks if discounted shoes are okay. The response
> > isn't too long so I'll quote it all. The phrase "Some materials experts believe" shows that no
> > study was done. I often run in shoes that have been stored up to a year or two and personally
> > notice no difference. Here is the answer given by Runners World:
> >
> > "Most likely. Assuming the shoes were stored properly (no extremes of heat or cold), they are
> > porbably fine. In fact, you can get some great bargains by buying discountinued shoes. Many
> > times, they are 50% off the original retail price. Still, you should know that the materials of
> > a shoe do deteriorate over time. Some materials experts believe the midsole degrades aprox 5%
> > (or more) for each year the shoe is stored. If it has deteriorated, the midsole will become
> > harder and start to look yellow. A shoe that has been stored for several years may not last as
> > long as a brand new pair, but in other respects it shold be just fine ."
> >
> >
> > Tramps like us... baby we were born to run.
> >
> >
> > globaldisc@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote in message
news:<20030917084800.23341.00000832@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> > > Runners World had an article a few months ago that said shoes lose about 5% cushioning each
> > > year when stored in a cool, dry environment.
> > > ___
> > >
> > > I did a quick search over there but I could not find it....anyone have
a link
> > > to this article? I don't buy it and wanted to read if this in fact
was an
> > > opinion, an actual scientific study, etc. We're talking about the
"half-life"
> > > of inorganic matertials and their physical construction and design. Furthermore an across the
> > > board generalization like this strikes as
baseless
> > > when you consider the array of different physical properties,
materials,
> > > designs, technologies used in the running shoe world to derive
"cushioning".
> > > Sounds to me like nothing but Runner's Folklore...
> > >
> > > Maybe air bladder based cushioning might be sensitive to time sitting
in a
> > > box....however I even doubt that for a single year. Mizuno wave
cushioning in
> > > the heel & mid-sole with that patented single plastic-like piece like
a pair of
> > > Creations?...No Way.
> > >
> > > I see nothing in the design/materials of a pair of Ascis Gel Racer V
for
> > > example that would suggest boxed/untouched for a year...that shoe will
lost
> > > about 5% of its cushioning...heel, midsole, or forefoot.
> > >
> > > Think about it...if this 5% cushioning "loss" after a year of being boxed/closeted factory
> > > fresh/new were true...just think about how much
loss
> > > would occur to cushioning after using a shoe one time for 5 miles, or
10 times
> > > for 50 miles? Would there be any cushioning left at all after 100
miles real
> > > use?
>
> Well, I hope everybody saw the big news story yesterday about old tires being unsafe. Even unused
> tires that look perfect can blow because they have deteriorated In unseen ways. They are pushing
> for a tire expiration date. So it makes sense that a running shoe would lose critical resiliency
> even quicker because of the volatile compounds used.