What's the real FTP on Trainingpeaks?

[larrynipon]

I use WK0+ with a Powertap. The software breaks down a ride a variety of ways....time increment, average power, HR, cadence, speed, etc. It also presents "normalized" power. Here are my numbers from a 14 mile TT. I've also included some other rides of longer duration where I was "working."
The whole ride is less than an hour, but I should be able to get a FTP from this. So is it the normalized number or the real average number, or a combination?

The 14 mile TT was a bigger effort.

Should I be using the normalized number as my baseline for Threshold interval work?

29 mile ride tempo with intervals

Entire workout (169 watts):
Duration: 1:42:22
Work: 1082 kJ
TSS: 233.7 (intensity factor 1.172)
Norm Power: 219
VI: 1.24
Pw:HR: 4.77%
Pa:HR: 4.89%
Distance: 29.002 mi
Elevation Gain: 2106 ft
Elevation Loss: 2229 ft
Grade: -0.1 % (-122 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 1 960 177 watts
Heart Rate: 71 224 140 bpm
Cadence: 1 131 86 rpm
Speed: 0 45.9 17.7 mph
Pace 1:18 0:00 3:23 min/mi
Altitude: 538 1037 681 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1774 175 lb-in

Peak 5s (932 watts):
Duration: 0:05
Work: 5 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: -3.39%
Pa:HR: -2.7%
Distance: 228 ft
Elevation Gain: 7 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 3.2 % (7 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 917 955 936 watts
Heart Rate: 138 139 139 bpm
Cadence: 125 129 127 rpm
Speed: 30.7 31.8 31.2 mph
Pace 1:53 1:57 1:55 min/mi
Altitude: 896 903 900 ft
Crank Torque: 600 645 623 lb-in

Peak 10s (648 watts):
Duration: 0:10
Work: 7 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: -128.08%
Pa:HR: -17.33%
Distance: 418 ft
Elevation Gain: 7 ft
Elevation Loss: 8 ft
Grade: -1.7 % (-7 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 211 955 669 watts
Heart Rate: 135 139 137 bpm
Cadence: 112 129 123 rpm
Speed: 25 31.8 28.6 mph
Pace 1:53 2:24 2:06 min/mi
Altitude: 896 904 900 ft
Crank Torque: 159 645 452 lb-in

Peak 20s (480 watts):
Duration: 0:20
Work: 9 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 4.79%
Pa:HR: 13.25%
Distance: 350 ft
Elevation Gain: 35 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 10.4 % (36 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 408 537 474 watts
Heart Rate: 136 145 141 bpm
Cadence: 71 82 76 rpm
Speed: 10.9 12.8 11.9 mph
Pace 4:41 5:29 5:01 min/mi
Altitude: 879 914 898 ft
Crank Torque: 420 597 532 lb-in

Peak 30s (455 watts):
Duration: 0:30
Work: 14 kJ
TSS: 4.9 (intensity factor 2.434)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 16.4%
Pa:HR: 13.4%
Distance: 515 ft
Elevation Gain: 50 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 9.9 % (51 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 395 537 456 watts
Heart Rate: 136 149 143 bpm
Cadence: 71 82 75 rpm
Speed: 10.9 12.8 11.7 mph
Pace 4:41 5:29 5:06 min/mi
Altitude: 879 928 905 ft
Crank Torque: 420 597 515 lb-in

Peak 1min (425 watts):
Duration: 1:02
Work: 27 kJ
TSS: 9.2 (intensity factor 2.306)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 17.92%
Pa:HR: 11.75%
Distance: 0.199 mi
Elevation Gain: 88 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 9.0 % (94 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 371 537 429 watts
Heart Rate: 136 155 147 bpm
Cadence: 68 82 74 rpm
Speed: 10.6 13 11.6 mph
Pace 4:37 5:39 5:11 min/mi
Altitude: 878 966 921 ft
Crank Torque: 404 597 490 lb-in

Peak 2min (355 watts):
Duration: 2:00
Work: 45 kJ
TSS: 15.3 (intensity factor 2.145)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 16.43%
Pa:HR: 25.86%
Distance: 0.383 mi
Elevation Gain: 145 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 7.4 % (150 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 230 537 378 watts
Heart Rate: 125 156 144 bpm
Cadence: 44 84 73 rpm
Speed: 7.1 14.7 11.6 mph
Pace 4:05 8:24 5:11 min/mi
Altitude: 847 992 917 ft
Crank Torque: 231 597 442 lb-in

Peak 5min (249 watts):
Duration: 5:02
Work: 76 kJ
TSS: 15.1 (intensity factor 1.343)
Norm Power: 251
VI: 0.99
Pw:HR: 4.86%
Pa:HR: 16.25%
Distance: 1.862 mi
Elevation Gain: 85 ft
Elevation Loss: 86 ft
Grade: 0.0 % (2 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 174 324 253 watts
Heart Rate: 145 159 155 bpm
Cadence: 88 115 98 rpm
Speed: 16.5 28.6 22.1 mph
Pace 2:06 3:38 2:43 min/mi
Altitude: 586 623 608 ft
Crank Torque: 151 298 218 lb-in

Peak 10min (240 watts):
Duration: 10:02
Work: 147 kJ
TSS: 28 (intensity factor 1.294)
Norm Power: 242
VI: 0.99
Pw:HR: 7.23%
Pa:HR: -3.17%
Distance: 3.81 mi
Elevation Gain: 161 ft
Elevation Loss: 202 ft
Grade: -0.2 % (-42 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 147 501 244 watts
Heart Rate: 146 160 157 bpm
Cadence: 86 115 98 rpm
Speed: 16.5 29 22.7 mph
Pace 2:04 3:38 2:38 min/mi
Altitude: 541 623 595 ft
Crank Torque: 111 460 212 lb-in

Peak 20min (213 watts):
Duration: 20:07
Work: 268 kJ
TSS: 50.3 (intensity factor 1.224)
Norm Power: 229
VI: 1.03
Pw:HR: -8.76%
Pa:HR: -3.03%
Distance: 7.14 mi
Elevation Gain: 335 ft
Elevation Loss: 395 ft
Grade: -0.2 % (-61 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 23 501 222 watts
Heart Rate: 132 160 151 bpm
Cadence: 60 115 96 rpm
Speed: 0 29 21.5 mph
Pace 2:04 0:00 2:48 min/mi
Altitude: 541 652 610 ft
Crank Torque: 0 460 196 lb-in

Peak 30min (211 watts):
Duration: 30:01
Work: 396 kJ
TSS: 92.5 (intensity factor 1.36)
Norm Power: 254
VI: 1.16
Pw:HR: -0.23%
Pa:HR: -2.81%
Distance: 10.16 mi
Elevation Gain: 643 ft
Elevation Loss: 879 ft
Grade: -0.4 % (-236 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 16 537 220 watts
Heart Rate: 115 203 148 bpm
Cadence: 34 131 91 rpm
Speed: 0 45.9 20.8 mph
Pace 1:18 0:00 2:53 min/mi
Altitude: 541 1037 696 ft
Crank Torque: 0 597 208 lb-in

Peak 60min (181 watts):
Duration: 1:00:00
Work: 680 kJ
TSS: 148.2 (intensity factor 1.217)
Norm Power: 228
VI: 1.21
Pw:HR: 22.77%
Pa:HR: 12.63%
Distance: 18.455 mi
Elevation Gain: 1206 ft
Elevation Loss: 1474 ft
Grade: -0.3 % (-263 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 1 537 189 watts
Heart Rate: 107 160 143 bpm
Cadence: 1 131 88 rpm
Speed: 0 45.9 19.2 mph
Pace 1:18 0:00 3:07 min/mi
Altitude: 538 1037 648 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1774 182 lb-in



14 mile TT


Entire workout (221 watts):
Duration: 41:32
Work: 591 kJ
TSS: 136.7 (intensity factor 1.405)
Norm Power: 263
VI: 1.11
Pw:HR: -5.8%
Pa:HR: 7.1%
Distance: 13.905 mi
Elevation Gain: 1131 ft
Elevation Loss: 1168 ft
Grade: -0.1 % (-37 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 1 674 237 watts
Heart Rate: 134 218 156 bpm
Cadence: 6 113 90 rpm
Speed: 0 33.9 19.7 mph
Pace 1:46 0:00 3:02 min/mi
Altitude: 598 816 708 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1536 221 lb-in

Peak 5s (674 watts):
Duration: 0:05
Work: 3 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: -7.59%
Pa:HR: 100%
Distance: 80 ft
Elevation Gain: 5 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 13.2 % (10 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 674 674 674 watts
Heart Rate: 145 159 152 bpm
Cadence: 17 87 44 rpm
Speed: 0 19.4 9.1 mph
Pace 3:05 0:00 6:36 min/mi
Altitude: 727 732 729 ft
Crank Torque: 150 1536 780 lb-in

Peak 10s (671 watts):
Duration: 0:10
Work: 7 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: -12.1%
Pa:HR: 81.1%
Distance: 176 ft
Elevation Gain: 17 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 9.4 % (16 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 654 674 670 watts
Heart Rate: 143 166 155 bpm
Cadence: 17 87 49 rpm
Speed: 0 20.6 11.7 mph
Pace 2:55 0:00 5:07 min/mi
Altitude: 716 733 726 ft
Crank Torque: 133 1536 726 lb-in

Peak 20s (494 watts):
Duration: 0:20
Work: 11 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: -20.05%
Pa:HR: 60.92%
Distance: 474 ft
Elevation Gain: 32 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 7.8 % (37 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 268 674 555 watts
Heart Rate: 142 171 157 bpm
Cadence: 17 96 56 rpm
Speed: 0 24.2 15.0 mph
Pace 2:29 0:00 3:60 min/mi
Altitude: 704 736 724 ft
Crank Torque: 133 1536 670 lb-in

Peak 30s (472 watts):
Duration: 0:30
Work: 14 kJ
TSS: 5.3 (intensity factor 2.525)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 3.84%
Pa:HR: 12.55%
Distance: 651 ft
Elevation Gain: 41 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 7.8 % (51 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 382 510 475 watts
Heart Rate: 148 160 154 bpm
Cadence: 9 39 29 rpm
Speed: 13.2 16.3 14.7 mph
Pace 3:40 4:32 4:04 min/mi
Altitude: 674 715 695 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1067 293 lb-in

Peak 1min (412 watts):
Duration: 1:01
Work: 25 kJ
TSS: 8.9 (intensity factor 2.286)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 28.64%
Pa:HR: 27.62%
Distance: 0.22 mi
Elevation Gain: 81 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 7.8 % (90 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 313 510 416 watts
Heart Rate: 148 163 158 bpm
Cadence: 9 78 59 rpm
Speed: 9.6 16.3 13.0 mph
Pace 3:40 6:16 4:37 min/mi
Altitude: 674 755 717 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1067 368 lb-in

Peak 2min (336 watts):
Duration: 2:03
Work: 43 kJ
TSS: 12.3 (intensity factor 1.894)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 18.91%
Pa:HR: 20.41%
Distance: 0.477 mi
Elevation Gain: 131 ft
Elevation Loss: 0 ft
Grade: 5.4 % (136 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 258 432 347 watts
Heart Rate: 140 159 152 bpm
Cadence: 76 100 88 rpm
Speed: 11.6 16.5 14.0 mph
Pace 3:39 5:10 4:17 min/mi
Altitude: 654 784 718 ft
Crank Torque: 241 388 332 lb-in

Peak 5min (258 watts):
Duration: 5:00
Work: 83 kJ
TSS: 21.8 (intensity factor 1.618)
Norm Power: 303
VI: 1.1
Pw:HR: -57.72%
Pa:HR: 41.54%
Distance: 1.562 mi
Elevation Gain: 192 ft
Elevation Loss: 97 ft
Grade: 1.2 % (95 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 94 432 276 watts
Heart Rate: 139 159 146 bpm
Cadence: 76 109 93 rpm
Speed: 11.6 32.4 18.0 mph
Pace 1:51 5:10 3:20 min/mi
Altitude: 626 784 695 ft
Crank Torque: 78 388 256 lb-in

Peak 10min (245 watts):
Duration: 10:03
Work: 163 kJ
TSS: 42.9 (intensity factor 1.601)
Norm Power: 299
VI: 1.11
Pw:HR: 18.33%
Pa:HR: -36.19%
Distance: 2.96 mi
Elevation Gain: 345 ft
Elevation Loss: 208 ft
Grade: 0.9 % (148 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 23 532 270 watts
Heart Rate: 147 164 159 bpm
Cadence: 6 106 80 rpm
Speed: 9.2 31.4 17.1 mph
Pace 1:54 6:31 3:31 min/mi
Altitude: 659 809 749 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1091 258 lb-in

Peak 20min (224 watts):
Duration: 20:00
Work: 293 kJ
TSS: 70.9 (intensity factor 1.459)
Norm Power: 273
VI: 1.12
Pw:HR: -0.92%
Pa:HR: 18.84%
Distance: 6.424 mi
Elevation Gain: 541 ft
Elevation Loss: 420 ft
Grade: 0.4 % (126 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 23 532 244 watts
Heart Rate: 147 163 155 bpm
Cadence: 6 109 87 rpm
Speed: 9.2 31.4 18.7 mph
Pace 1:54 6:31 3:13 min/mi
Altitude: 598 809 699 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1091 228 lb-in

Peak 30min (226 watts):
Duration: 30:00
Work: 441 kJ
TSS: 107.8 (intensity factor 1.468)
Norm Power: 275
VI: 1.12
Pw:HR: -0.49%
Pa:HR: 15.86%
Distance: 9.709 mi
Elevation Gain: 830 ft
Elevation Loss: 681 ft
Grade: 0.3 % (152 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 1 532 245 watts
Heart Rate: 137 164 153 bpm
Cadence: 6 111 89 rpm
Speed: 9.2 33.5 18.9 mph
Pace 1:47 6:31 3:10 min/mi
Altitude: 598 809 691 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1091 228 lb-in

[frost]

Read here: Alex's Cycle Blog: The seven deadly sins (http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/seven-deadly-sins.html)

For starters I'd say, use your 14 mile TT NP minus 5-10 watts and verify in your coming L4 workouts (eg. 2x20 or 1x40).

[daveryanwyoming]

And when you finish with Alex's excellent blog on determining FTP surf over to wikipedia and read up on nettiquette: Netiquette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette)

Your post of all the summary data from your file is a classic example of what not to do if you expect free help on the internet...

[Meek One]

Not answering your q, but FWIW me thinks your CTL/ATL/TSS graph is probably way off. I think you probably have it(FTP) set really, really low on Peaks if it is showing such enormous TSS for the reasonably short rides.

[larrynipon]

which one...normalized or real average?

[larrynipon]

No problem Dave. Save your help for someone more worthy.

[daveryanwyoming]

...Save your help for someone more worthy...Not really a question of worthy, just data overload.

No worries, I won't bust your chops on this anymore but you'll get a lot more traction by posting succinct questions without all the nitty gritty and meaningless details.

FWIW I suspect your FTP is ~255-260 watts based on the TT data above.

Was the course rolling with a lot of climbs and descents or did you go out too hot and fade? IOW, why the big discrepancy between AP and NP for the TT?

-Dave

[doctorSpoc]

which one...normalized or real average?

i'd use the normalized power from the 14mile TT i.e. for just the TT portion i.e. doesn't include warmup and cool down... minus about 3-5W. it's 40mins so your power is not going to be that much different for one hour... the TT looks to have a few ups and downs since the VI (variability index) is 1.11 + elevation change (you're pushing harder at times).. so that's why i would use normalized power.

you use normalized power to estimate physiologically, how hard you could have gone with a steady effort vs. one where your power is very variable (i.e. crit, hilly route etc)... if you do a flat TT you'll see that your VI will be about 1 (not variable at all) and ave power and normalized power will be about equal... so basically if you have a very variable workout and you want to know what you did physiologically in terms of sustainable power use normalized power.

FTP is the power you can do for 1hr if you are fully motivated and rested which turns out to be about the power you do for a typical 20-30min interval i.e. just day in and day out.. not particularly rested or motivated. or you can take a 1hr crit that you did a lot of work in and use normalized power etc.