shrinking of leg muscles due to long distance running in only two weeks?
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hi. I am a junior in highschool that normally runs the sprints in track. I have had "sprinter" legs
for most of my life, bigger muscle. my track coach recommended I join the XC team in the fall (which
didn't make much sense to me)and have obvioulsy been doing longer distance aerobic work outs. I have
only been doing this two weeks and my legs have gotten signifcantly less wider in girth. they are
much more defined though. is this normal to loose so much mass so quickly? also, what are other
highschool sprinters experiences with xc?
If you think the muscle shrinkage is bad, wait until you see what happens to your intellect when you
think about jogging too often.
davsaz@verizon.net (tsaz) wrote in message news:<7989fb15.0309171807.6df94a8a@posting.google.com>...
> hi. I am a junior in highschool that normally runs the sprints in track. I have had "sprinter"
> legs for most of my life, bigger muscle. my track coach recommended I join the XC team in the fall
> (which didn't make much sense to me)and have obvioulsy been doing longer distance aerobic work
> outs. I have only been doing this two weeks and my legs have gotten signifcantly less wider in
> girth. they are much more
^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^
> defined though. is this normal to loose so much mass so quickly? also,
^^^^^^^
> what are other highschool sprinters experiences with xc?
Your increased definition shows that you have lost body fat from the aerobic work. The transition
(for an adult male) from about 15% to 10% body fat results in going from a smooth to ``cut'' look.
If you drop farther, toward 5%, you look ``ripped''. Not that you should try to do this as a growing
young adult; not all that healthy. ;)
There is not only fat under your skin, but there is fat throughout the muscle spindle. Next time you
are dining on a steak, notice all the fat distributed throughout; it's called ``marbling''. This
kind of meat has lots of marbling because the stock animal it came from was well-fed and relatively
inactive. If you were eating game meat, you'd notice that it has a lot less of this. That's because
game meat comes from ``cross country'' animals which have a lot less body fat.
This fat distributed throughout the muscle makes it larger. If you lose some of that fat, you are
not losing muscle strength.
Even if muscle did not have fat distributed throughout it, the mere loss of subcutaneous (under the
skin) fat can make muscle look smaller. That extra quarter inch of insulation adds the illusion of
size; particularly if there is still some definition.
Your coach made a pretty smart recommendation; he or she got a leaner, fitter sprinter out of it, as
well as a new cross-country runner. As well, you have been introduced into new activities that will
make you a better all-round athlete and healthier individual.
If you don't keep up the short distance running, you probably will lose some real muscle mass. But
there is no reason why you can't do cross-country, while maintaining your track work. Different
kinds of running reinforce each other significantly. Sprinting gives you coordination, speed and
running economy, which make you more competitive in the cross-country events. Improved aerobic
fitness will in turn let you put in more intense and longer sprinting workouts. Also, it will give
you something to work on when you are not sprinting, because there isn't a whole lot of sprinting
you can do in a week, yet your body can take a whole lot more exercise. It's not uncommon for
runners to put in 90 miles a week or more; only a small percentage of those miles can possibly
consist of fast, short runs on the track!
Oh yeah, and don't forget that less body fat makes you better at any distance, except maybe 100
milers. A few extra pounds of fat will retard your acceleration in a 100 meter dash, and cause you
to use more energy and oxygen in every mile of a marathon.
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:19:10 -0400 (EDT), High_Colonic@webtv.net (Miss Anne Thrope) wrote:
>If you think the muscle shrinkage is bad, wait until you see what happens to your intellect when
>you think about jogging too often.
You become a misanthorpe?
wow! thanks for the insight. it is greatly apprieciated.
"tsaz" <davsaz@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7989fb15.0309181208.13e98469@posting.google.com...
> wow! thanks for the insight. it is greatly apprieciated.
There is another side: here is my opinion.
If you are a athlete I imagine you have some familiarity with your body and muscle mass, and if you
believe you have lost muscle mass in your legs, and you have some tactile physical sense of that
loss, then you probably have. Almost all runners, after about 40 minutes (unless they perfectly
refuel to replenish their glycogen and have the genes to accommodate that conversion/replenishment
quickly), go catabolic to some degree. Catabolism is essentially the destructive phase of metabolism
where the organism itself breaks down for energy source (as opposed to Catholicism, which was the
destructive phase in my life where I was simply, always, guilty :^)
Distance runners tend to eventually understand how and what to eat in order to sustain these energy
reserves in an optimum way. Sprinters have never had to deal with this reality so it is likely that
your diet needs to be adjusted to accommodate the semi-catabolic state you enter into during your
long runs. Ultimately there is no way to get away from it, the metabolism of muscle tissue (or
protein, as the body sees it). Look at good or great distance runners...muscle mass doesn't enter
into the equation. It isn't needed and the loss of it is a by-product of how the body metabolizes
fuel sources in terms of order of usage and the adaptive need of muscle mass for the task. The body
is a wonderful thing: given the right food-stuffs, nutrients and training regimen, if you are a
sprinter it will try to adapt it's growth to support that task, if you are a distance runner it will
do the same...but the growth enacted will be different for both types of running.
I would not consider loss of muscle a positive thing, nor would I suggest that you lost only fat.
Most runners know that loss of extraneous muscle mass (in other words muscle mass not necessary to
distance running) is a simple fact. For most runners this is great because distance running is their
purpose and the lower weight is helpful in many ways with regard to improving their running and
reducing risk of injury. For you, a sprinter, loss of muscle mass cannot be considered a good thing
without some benchmark testing to ensure it has not affected your ability to sprint and recover from
sprints quickly enough to be ready for the next heat or next race. You already know this, but as a
HS/Collegiate sprinter you may race 3 or 4 times in a one day meet (say a 100, 200 and a couple
relays). Your muscle mass plays a great part in making 3 or 4 races in one 3 hour period the best
they can be.
I run around 35 miles per week...not a great amount of mileage for most runners, but I am, like you,
muscular and therefore much heavier than most distance runners, and this is the mileage that makes
sense for me. I also lift 4 times per week in order to maintain my lean muscle mass and to maintain
muscle strength around my knees (one of which has been operated on 3 times in the last 10 years and
needs the added support). I am not implying you follow my personal program and I am suggesting
distance running is good for you, but I am also hinting you consider loss of muscle mass a serious
consideration when it comes to your sprinting.
In article <7989fb15.0309171807.6df94a8a@posting.google.com>, tsaz wrote:
> hi. I am a junior in highschool that normally runs the sprints in track. I have had "sprinter"
> legs for most of my life, bigger muscle. my track coach recommended I join the XC team in the fall
> (which didn't make much sense to me)and have obvioulsy been doing longer distance aerobic work
> outs. I have only been doing this two weeks and my legs have gotten signifcantly less wider in
> girth. they are much more defined though. is this normal to loose so much mass so quickly? also,
> what are other highschool sprinters experiences with xc?
Here's my take on it: you've probably lost weight, both lean and non-lean, because you have
increased your energy expenditure ("you do more exercise") but haven't changed your diet.
Your maintenance calories -- the amount of food you need to avoid losing weight -- increases when
your level of activity increases. In other words, if you eat more, you may find that you lose
neither fat nor muscle.
Having said that, you shouldn't get substantial muscle loss anyway, unless you have done a
substantial amount of weight training.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:02:00 -0600, "Haselden" <illpass@nthespam.com> wrote:
>
>"tsaz" <davsaz@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:7989fb15.0309181208.13e98469@posting.google.com...
>> wow! thanks for the insight. it is greatly apprieciated.
>
>There is another side: here is my opinion.
>
>If you are a athlete I imagine you have some familiarity with your body and muscle mass, and if you
>believe you have lost muscle mass in your legs, and you have some tactile physical sense of that
>loss, then you probably have. Almost all runners, after about 40 minutes (unless they perfectly
>refuel to replenish their glycogen and have the genes to accommodate that conversion/replenishment
>quickly), go catabolic to some degree.
I've always heard it took quite a bit longer than that, unless you are including fat stores in your
catabolic profile.
Ruger9
"Ruger9" <ruger9@bigmailbox.net> wrote in message news:3f6c633c.1565220@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:02:00 -0600, "Haselden" <illpass@nthespam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"tsaz" <davsaz@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:7989fb15.0309181208.13e98469@posting.google.com...
> >> wow! thanks for the insight. it is greatly apprieciated.
> >
> >There is another side: here is my opinion.
> >
> >If you are a athlete I imagine you have some familiarity with your body
and
> >muscle mass, and if you believe you have lost muscle mass in your legs,
and
> >you have some tactile physical sense of that loss, then you probably
have.
> >Almost all runners, after about 40 minutes (unless they perfectly refuel
to
> >replenish their glycogen and have the genes to accommodate that conversion/replenishment
> >quickly), go catabolic to some degree.
>
> I've always heard it took quite a bit longer than that,
It starts as early as 40 minutes, particulalry in people fueled improperly for the task. At 40
minutes the body is looking for alternate fuels source and wanting to retain fat stores, it goes for
the filet mignon. But remember, I am speaking in degrees. No one really knows how their body reacts
until the witness the resulting loss. This sprinter has obviously seen the resulting loss in his
legs. He didn't mention wieght, he mentioned seeing the reduced muscle mass in his legs. My
experience is directly related to what he has shared.
> unless you are including fat stores in your catabolic profile.
Burning fat stores in metabolism, eating away at the organism is catabolism.
tsaz, Please be advised that this guy knows about as much about weight loss anbd diet as a 3 year
old child. Take his advice very, very cautiously. Bill
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:29:39 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
>Here's my take on it: you've probably lost weight, both lean and non-lean, because you have
>increased your energy expenditure ("you do more exercise") but haven't changed your diet.
>
>Your maintenance calories -- the amount of food you need to avoid losing weight -- increases when
>your level of activity increases. In other words, if you eat more, you may find that you lose
>neither fat nor muscle.
>
>Having said that, you shouldn't get substantial muscle loss anyway, unless you have done a
>substantial amount of weight training.
>
>Cheers,
In article <7c5nmvc6o74pshtjeouuiuqbv3qgsinj02@4ax.com>, Knot wrote:
> tsaz, Please be advised that this guy knows about as much about weight loss anbd diet as a 3 year
> old child. Take his advice very, very cautiously.
Please be advised that the above is posted by a know-nothing troll whose life is dedicated to
ruining this newsgroup for runners like us. Also note that he hasn't rebutted anything in my post
(a) because everything I posted is correct, and (b) even if it wasn't, he wouldn't be able to rebut
it, because he's a know-nothing troll.
Cheers, and happy running,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
hmm...all of this is discouraging. should I quit the team and get out before its too late? is there
really any sense in "building a base" for events like the 400 before doing more specific training? I
just don't understand why my coach would tell me to join the xc team if it would result in me
sprinting slower. any other people my age have any personal experience...I am distraught over the
situation.
This lil prick has his head so far in books he can't see the forest through the trees. I didn't
rebutt any of his BS because it's his "book learned" trash, and not worth responding too, he'd only
cite "studys" that don't exist. So listen to whomever you want, myself with thirty years of on the
road experience, dozens of marathons, no injuries in 24 years, a daily mileage of a minimum of 9
miles a day, and the perfect body (that's fought my natural weight of 300lbs to keep it at 190), or
you can listen to that idiot with his head stuck so far up his... I mean IN his books that he has no
idea about anything related to real life running. When it comes to weight loss he knows ZERO about
it. Cheers!
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:11:15 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <7c5nmvc6o74pshtjeouuiuqbv3qgsinj02@4ax.com>, Knot wrote:
>> tsaz, Please be advised that this guy knows about as much about weight loss anbd diet as a 3 year
>> old child. Take his advice very, very cautiously.
>
>Please be advised that the above is posted by a know-nothing troll whose life is dedicated to
>ruining this newsgroup for runners like us. Also note that he hasn't rebutted anything in my post
>(a) because everything I posted is correct, and (b) even if it wasn't, he wouldn't be able to rebut
>it, because he's a know-nothing troll.
>
>Cheers, and happy running,
Ok I admit it, I'm a know-nothing, a bookworm whose never even been a distance runner in my whole
life. Ignore my advice, thebillrodgers is the guy to listen too, the last guy who took my advice
ended up with permanent damage. Donovan Realbitchy (the REAL one)
Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbmnhaj.jsi.abuse@panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <7c5nmvc6o74pshtjeouuiuqbv3qgsinj02@4ax.com>, Knot wrote:
> > tsaz, Please be advised that this guy knows about as much about weight loss anbd diet as a 3
> > year old child. Take his advice very, very cautiously.
>
> Please be advised that the above is posted by a know-nothing troll whose life is dedicated to
> ruining this newsgroup for runners like us. Also note that he hasn't rebutted anything in my post
> (a) because everything I posted is correct, and (b) even if it wasn't, he wouldn't be able to
> rebut it, because he's a know-nothing troll.
>
> Cheers, and happy running,
It's about time we heard the truth from your mouth.
On 20 Sep 2003 04:26:50 -0700, donovanrealbitchy@hotmail.com (Donovan Realbitchy) wrote:
>Ok I admit it, I'm a know-nothing, a bookworm whose never even been a distance runner in my whole
>life. Ignore my advice, thebillrodgers is the guy to listen too, the last guy who took my advice
>ended up with permanent damage. Donovan Realbitchy (the REAL one)
tsaz wrote:
> hmm...all of this is discouraging. should I quit the team and get out before its too late? is
> there really any sense in "building a base" for events like the 400 before doing more specific
> training?
I have not been following this thread so taking the above statement alone - do NOT quit!! Yes,
building a base is a necessity for any distance and XC will do exactly that.
> I just don't understand why my coach would tell me to join the xc team if it would result in me
> sprinting slower.
Are you trying to do XC and the 400 at the same time? Since this would be unusual work your ass off
in XC and build a stringer base. Once you start back to doing speed for you 400's the XC power will
will help you run faster.
> any other people my age have any personal experience...I am distraught over the situation.
Worry not, your coach is giving good advice.
--
Doug Freese dfreeseNOBS@hvc.rr.com
In article <3ibomvovl5lkufleplok6eco5n1mhg529f@4ax.com>, The truth revealed wrote:
> This lil prick has his head so far in books he can't see the forest through the trees. I didn't
> rebutt any of his BS because it's his "book learned" trash, and not worth responding too, he'd
> only cite "studys" that don't exist.
Here, the troll is referring to a study that I provided a pubmed link to.
Keep digging ...
> So listen to whomever you want, myself with thirty years of on the road experience, dozens of
> marathons, no injuries in 24 years, a daily mileage of a minimum of 9 miles a day, and the perfect
> body (that's fought my natural weight of 300lbs to keep it at 190), or you can
None of this is verifiable because you're an anonymous troll.
> listen to that idiot with his head stuck so far up his... I mean IN his books that he has no idea
> about anything related to real life running. When it comes to weight loss he knows ZERO about it.
Lost several pounds, and have pictures on my webpage that prove it.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
In article <7989fb15.0309192022.231254b1@posting.google.com>, tsaz wrote:
> hmm...all of this is discouraging. should I quit the team and get out before its too late?
Which part is discouraging ? Having to eat more ? Seriously, eat a little more and don't worry so
much. And ignore the troll.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
In article <foeomvkn2qjpa92n1aq8kb4db0tkh7f7pg@4ax.com>, The truth revealed wrote:
> It's about time we heard the truth from your mouth.
Replying to yourself again, troll ?
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:11:55 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <7989fb15.0309192022.231254b1@posting.google.com>, tsaz wrote:
>> hmm...all of this is discouraging. should I quit the team and get out before its too late?
>
>Which part is discouraging ? Having to eat more ? Seriously, eat a little more and don't worry so
>much. And ignore the troll.
>
>Cheers,
Here's his advice "eat more"??????? what a moron.
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