Can I compute 1 hour power from 1-1/2 hour training session?
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I was very happy with the last bicycle ride I did. The power device confirmed my feeling what my body was feeling, namely that I was a bit stronger than before. I know as a beginner that's real common but I still like it :) THe numbers are pretty fun especially when you keep getting better. If only my bank account worked the same way......
So I my normal power metric for the entire 1-1/2 hours was pretty consistent - . Maybe 2 watts less at 90 minutes (144w) than at 60 minutes (146w). Yes, yes, very slow so you can all laugh at me :)
I know I wasn't going all out and 100% as hard as I could during the first hour. If I was then I bet I would have gone slower after the 60 minute mark. It was work for sure especially after the 1 hour mark but not to the point I was aching or ready to fall off the bicycle.
THe book says you should change your metrics if you go out and do a ride with better figures. Another part of what I read describes how you ought to check the bars on the software chart to see where the numbers drop off. I cannot tell for certain but it looks like 150-155 is the big cliff where the numbers fall off a lot after.
http://www.cyclingforums.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz166/DancenMacabre/workout_8_4_2008.jpg%5B/IMG%5Dhttp://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz166/DancenMacabre/workout_8_4_2008.jpg
I thought the whole riding at 90% and for longer than an hour was a good use of that 'sweet training' idea that the book says is the whole meat and potatoes of bicycle riding. It feels easier, on my brain maybe, than going all out for 1 hour like a timed trial.
Is there some percentage that 90 minute power should be of 60 minute power for a beginner? Maybe it varies but is there a range it should be in? 60%? 70%? 80%?
Is there some percentage that 90 minute power should be of 60 minute power for a beginner? Maybe it varies but is there a range it should be in? 60%? 70%? 80%?
I suppose for a beginner it depends on the degree of training, and specifically how long your training rides typically are. Honestly, for someone who is well trained at those durations and longer, I'd expect the 90-min effort could be done at 98%+ relative to the 60-min effort. Not too much drop off is expected within the first couple hours for someone who is training at 40-60+ miles each ride.
It's tough to guess-timate all-out power from submaximal efforts because you really never know exactly how much was left behind. If you could do an all-out effort for 15-30 minutes then that would give you a much better idea of your 60-min power than a 90-min submaximal ride.
Like the screen name, BTW.
I wouldn't use a power distribution chart from just one ride to look for the the bin where the numbers fall off (as the book describes). You want to have a number of hard rides under your belt. Then, assuming that your chart would still look the same, I'd be more inclined to consider the 180 W bin to be a better candidate. You probably want to look for your FTP to be around mid-right side of the curve. For a reference I attached my Power Distribution Chart for this season so far. FYI, I have my FTP set at 270 W.
Edit: Actually, I think having the chart set to show 10 W increments (which is what I usually use) may illustrate this a bit better.
I wouldn't use a power distribution chart from just one ride to look for the the bin where the numbers fall off (as the book describes). You want to have a number of hard rides under your belt. Then, assuming that your chart would still look the same, I'd be more inclined to consider the 180 W bin to be a better candidate. You probably want to look for your FTP to be around mid-right side of the curve.
Yes, and remove the zeroes from the chart so that the curve gets larger and easier to see. :p
I wouldn't use a power distribution chart from just one ride to look for the the bin where the numbers fall off (as the book describes). You want to have a number of hard rides under your belt. Then, assuming that your chart would still look the same, I'd be more inclined to consider the 180 W bin to be a better candidate. You probably want to look for your FTP to be around mid-right side of the curve. For a reference I attached my Power Distribution Chart for this season so far. FYI, I have my FTP set at 270 W.
Ok ok, I get it. So today I did a one hour time trialed as fast as I could go. It was hella difficult, especially the last 5 to 10 minutes. I ended up with a power average of 156 and power normal of 158.
Can I now then use 156 (or 158?) for the 60 minute functional power metric?
I suppose for a beginner it depends on the degree of training, and specifically how long your training rides typically are. Honestly, for someone who is well trained at those durations and longer, I'd expect the 90-min effort could be done at 98%+ relative to the 60-min effort. Not too much drop off is expected within the first couple hours for someone who is training at 40-60+ miles each ride.
98% for 90 minutes? You serious? Thats impressive :eek:
It's tough to guess-timate all-out power from submaximal efforts because you really never know exactly how much was left behind. If you could do an all-out effort for 15-30 minutes then that would give you a much better idea of your 60-min power than a 90-min submaximal ride.
So less time, 15-30 minutes not 90 minutes is a better idea? That kinda surprises me a little but there is probably a good rationale I bet.
Like the screen name, BTW.
Um thanks :)
Yours reminds me of claude reins as a police inspector in that old bogie movie, casablanca.
Can I now then use 156 (or 158?) for the 60 minute functional power metric?
Yep. Well, I'd round it to either 155w or 160w.
So less time, 15-30 minutes not 90 minutes is a better idea? That kinda surprises me a little but there is probably a good rationale I bet.
Really it's more important that it be an all-out effort for testing. If 60-min is too hard, then it's better to go shorter than to reduce the intensity. I could guess better from a 30-min all-out number than a 90-min "kinda hard" number, since one person's "kinda hard" might be 85%, while another's is 95%.
See here for thoughts on testing for FTP (1-hr) power:
Alex's Cycle Blog: The seven deadly sins (http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/seven-deadly-sins.html)
and here for some of the traps peope fall into when estimating FTP:
Alex's Cycle Blog: The Sins of Sins (Testing FTP #2) (http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/07/sins-of-sins-testing-ftp-2.html)
Yep. Well, I'd round it to either 155w or 160w.
Really it's more important that it be an all-out effort for testing. If 60-min is too hard, then it's better to go shorter than to reduce the intensity. I could guess better from a 30-min all-out number than a 90-min "kinda hard" number, since one person's "kinda hard" might be 85%, while another's is 95%.
So kinda hard is maybe in the eye of the rider. I get that, yeap. :)
I will say 155ish. For me it feels better to not overestimate and think I have a better metric than is the actual fact.
For the first 20 minutes of yesterday's bicycle training, I was at 144 watts and ended up with 156 by the end of the 60 minutes. I prefer to start off slower and then go faster, finishing strong. Instead of starting fast and then suffering for like 40 minutes and practically dying the last 4-5.
Did this in a business area or park + gated community. So lots of roundabouts, traffic circles, and other stuff where you kinda have to stop pedaling for a moment.
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz166/DancenMacabre/8_6_2009_60_min_time_trial.jpg
See here for thoughts on testing for FTP (1-hr) power:
Alex's Cycle Blog: The seven deadly sins (http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/seven-deadly-sins.html)
and here for some of the traps peope fall into when estimating FTP:
Alex's Cycle Blog: The Sins of Sins (Testing FTP #2) (http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/07/sins-of-sins-testing-ftp-2.html)
Mr Alex, I confess to being the sinner then :(
I looked through the performance from 8/4, my 90 minute training session to estimate the 60 minute functional power metric. Sin #1, shame on me :)
Think I made up for it yesterday. I did a 60 minute time trial on the bicycle. Got the power metric from there and will use it from now on.
Bookmarked the pages from the blog. Thanks for sharing this information.
and here for some of the traps peope fall into when estimating FTP:
Alex's Cycle Blog: The Sins of Sins (Testing FTP #2) (http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/07/sins-of-sins-testing-ftp-2.html)
Nice one. Sage advice lies within. :)
Yes, and remove the zeroes from the chart so that the curve gets larger and easier to see. :p
Hey, I'm kinda proud of that < 8% coasting bin. :) Of course, that includes all of last winter's indoors training. You don't want to see my "Last 28 Days" chart. :eek: You'd think I was a tourist.
I was very happy with the last bicycle ride I did. The power device confirmed my feeling what my body was feeling, namely that I was a bit stronger than before. I know as a beginner that's real common but I still like it :) THe numbers are pretty fun especially when you keep getting better. If only my bank account worked the same way......
So I my normal power metric for the entire 1-1/2 hours was pretty consistent - . Maybe 2 watts less at 90 minutes (144w) than at 60 minutes (146w). Yes, yes, very slow so you can all laugh at me :)
I know I wasn't going all out and 100% as hard as I could during the first hour. If I was then I bet I would have gone slower after the 60 minute mark. It was work for sure especially after the 1 hour mark but not to the point I was aching or ready to fall off the bicycle.
THe book says you should change your metrics if you go out and do a ride with better figures. Another part of what I read describes how you ought to check the bars on the software chart to see where the numbers drop off. I cannot tell for certain but it looks like 150-155 is the big cliff where the numbers fall off a lot after.
http://www.cyclingforums.com/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz166/DancenMacabre/workout_8_4_2008.jpg%5B/IMG%5Dhttp://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz166/DancenMacabre/workout_8_4_2008.jpg
I thought the whole riding at 90% and for longer than an hour was a good use of that 'sweet training' idea that the book says is the whole meat and potatoes of bicycle riding. It feels easier, on my brain maybe, than going all out for 1 hour like a timed trial.
Is there some percentage that 90 minute power should be of 60 minute power for a beginner? Maybe it varies but is there a range it should be in? 60%? 70%? 80%?
The short answer to your question is yes, there is. The longer answer is that the number varies from person to person and is a function of your fitness. There's a very good explanation in "Championship Triathlon Training" by Dallam and Jonas. It's a concept that can be applied to target training intensity in many sports. Google "fatigue curve cycling training intensity" and you can read about it.
BillV
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