Shin splint or more serious?
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Hey all. I was just sharing my experience with my knee, and decided to ask about a new probklem
I'm having:
Basically, my shin is hurting. It is basically just towards the inside of the left shin (if you're
looking down on the round bone, it's at about 2 o'clock) about halfway down (or up). Basically, it
comes and goes, and when it hurts, it hurts when weight is placed on it. It could hurt for 10
minutes, then go away, or as long as 60. But it goes away.
Yesterday was the worst. I'm a cook, and in the middle of my shift, I needed to get replaced on the
line - I couldn't move on the left leg. But within an hour, I was walking fine.
I've been checking out running sites for common injuries, and most of course list shin splints.
A few list alternatives that might be misdiagnosed, including hairline fracture. But nothing
seems to fit. The pain is pretty sharp, is in a specific area. But pressure on the area, either
during an "attack" or not does not produce any pain, and I can't feel anything out of the
ordinary in the area.
Does this ring any bells with anyone? And if so, any advice. So far, I've not had any problems
during a run, even on a 20 mile long run in preparation for an Oct 18 marathon. I certainly don't
want to push myself to getting hurt, but the expense of a doctor is a bit much for me at the moment,
and would like to see if I can treat it myself.
Thanks in advance for any advice given.
"John R. Rybock" <rybock@msn.com> wrote in message
news:70jkmvk0vrq2q13hrm61jcb2e44abcm8dg@4ax.com...
> Hey all. I was just sharing my experience with my knee, and decided to ask
about a new probklem I'm
> having:
>
> Basically, my shin is hurting. It is basically just towards the inside of
the left shin (if you're
> looking down on the round bone, it's at about 2 o'clock) about halfway
down (or up). Basically, it
> comes and goes, and when it hurts, it hurts when weight is placed on it.
It could hurt for 10
> minutes, then go away, or as long as 60. But it goes away.
If you figure it out, let me know... I think we have the same problem! In my case, I believe it's
shin splints. My symptoms are virtually identical, although the pain no longer lasts as long. I've
had the problem for close to 8 weeks, and have cut back my running considerably, although I did set
two race PRs in that time! ;-)
I doubt it's a fracture, since they're supposed to be painful a lot, and not just when you're using
your leg. In my case the shin hurts when I start running, and then after 5 or 10 minutes it feels
fine. At the end of the run it'll be achy again. Weird?
Perdy.
Sounds like shin splints to me too.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:33:45 -0400, "Perdy Tired" <sleeping@night.com> wrote:
>
>"John R. Rybock" <rybock@msn.com> wrote in message
>news:70jkmvk0vrq2q13hrm61jcb2e44abcm8dg@4ax.com...
>> Hey all. I was just sharing my experience with my knee, and decided to ask
>about a new probklem I'm
>> having:
>>
>> Basically, my shin is hurting. It is basically just towards the inside of
>the left shin (if you're
>> looking down on the round bone, it's at about 2 o'clock) about halfway
>down (or up). Basically, it
>> comes and goes, and when it hurts, it hurts when weight is placed on it.
>It could hurt for 10
>> minutes, then go away, or as long as 60. But it goes away.
>
>If you figure it out, let me know... I think we have the same problem! In my case, I believe it's
>shin splints. My symptoms are virtually identical, although the pain no longer lasts as long. I've
>had the problem for close to 8 weeks, and have cut back my running considerably, although I did set
>two race PRs in that time! ;-)
>
>I doubt it's a fracture, since they're supposed to be painful a lot, and not just when you're using
>your leg. In my case the shin hurts when I start running, and then after 5 or 10 minutes it feels
>fine. At the end of the run it'll be achy again. Weird?
>
>Perdy.
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John R. Rybock <rybock@msn.com> wrote:
Hey all. I was just sharing my experience with my knee, and decided to ask about a new probklem
I'm having:
Basically, my shin is hurting. It is basically just towards the inside of the left shin (if you're
looking down on the round bone, it's at about 2 o'clock) about halfway down (or up). Basically, it
comes and goes, and when it hurts, it hurts when weight is placed on it. It could hurt for 10
minutes, then go away, or as long as 60. But it goes away.
Yesterday was the worst. I'm a cook, and in the middle of my shift, I needed to get replaced on the
line - I couldn't move on the left leg. But within an hour, I was walking fine.
I've been checking out running sites for common injuries, and most of course list shin splints.
A few list alternatives that might be misdiagnosed, including hairline fracture. But nothing
seems to fit. The pain is pretty sharp, is in a specific area. But pressure on the area, either
during an "attack" or not does not produce any pain, and I can't feel anything out of the
ordinary in the area.
Does this ring any bells with anyone? And if so, any advice. So far, I've not had any problems
during a run, even on a 20 mile long run in preparation for an Oct 18 marathon. I certainly don't
want to push myself to getting hurt, but the expense of a doctor is a bit much for me at the moment,
and would like to see if I can treat it myself.
Thanks in advance for any advice given.
Some folklore on shin splints and ways to think about what causes shin splints. A different way to
think about shin splints and some things to do about them.
Healing Shin Splint Folklore and Prevention by Austin Gontang, September 25, 2000
You can help me get better. I need you to rate my articles and their usefulness to you. Click the
appropriate rating circle at the bottom of the articles. Your comments are appreciated and necessary
to keep me rethinking my folklore and continue my lifelong learning. Ozzie
I continue to believe that the shin spints come more from the overstride and the deceleration and
then the overstretch of the shin which should be relaxing but hasn't had time. It is then being
stretched by the contracting calf muscle. For me I define an overstride as landing on the back of
the heel of the shoe. If I were jumping up and down, I would never land on the heels of my shoes nor
on my heels if I were barefoot. So why run landing on the heels...and by this I mean the back of the
heels if one were barefoot.
For me the image remains that as I place my foot under my center of gravity, the rest of my body is
catapulted forward from that platform. This means that the calf contracting isn't pushing the entire
body weight forward. The body weight has been catapulted forward by the glut/ham on the planted
foot(the platform), the thrust forward of the elbow/shoulder of the platform side and the quad/psoas
of the leg coming through to conterbalance the torque of the platform side.
Anyway here, as you mentioned would show up in a few days, some of the shin splint folklore which I
have shared with several thousand people over the past 2 decades. In case you didn't see the post
above or didn't get others on your ISP, I've compiled them:
Shin Splint Folklore by Ozzie
c. 2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.
Folklore #1
Shin splints are from the posterior and anterior tibilis getting tight and holding on and not
letting go. Every step becomes a pain in the shins when running. Remember that the problem may be
the calf muscles which means the shins have to work against muscles which only partially relax
putting all kinds of strain on the shin. See article mentioned in #3 below.
As you run, walk, let your toes relax. Often going up on the toes means the shin is being
elongated...and if it is tight and holding on, the calves have to overcome the tightness in the
shins...gradually the shins from being overstretched, tighten even more...and then your body
realizes that it is even difficult to walk.
As you stand during your day practice standing so that you can wiggle your toes at all times. Lean
forward and notice how the toes dig in. That posture can also be a problem spot for the shins which
get chronically tight and the running when the shins should be relaxing...that is when the calves
are contracting...the shins only partially relax and the pain is that of ripping a muscle that
doesn't want to let go.
The ultimate muscle though which we have all passed goes from 0 cm to 10 cm. Now you realize the
need to focus on relaxing as the crown pushes against that muscle attempting to force it to go to 10
cm too quickly. Breathing and relaxing can relax against that pressure. For the shins, it's also
teaching the shins to let go. Everyone (except a few of us) attempt to strengthen and make the shin
stronger rather than release the tightened and bound shin muscles.
Folklore #2
Get on all fours on a carpeted floor with the feet off the edge of a step. Place a tennis ball under
one anterior tibialis. Keep most of the weight on the other knee and hands. Move foot easily up and
down as you put more pressure on the tennis ball and roll it slowly over the belly of the shin
muscle. Do the other foot the same way. See which foot is giving you the most pain.
Folklore #3a
See http://www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp. Face the railing. Turn the feet and entire body so that it
is 45 degrees to the bar. Place the anterior shin over the bar so that the shin muscle and NOT the
shin bone rest on the rail. If rail is too high, use the middle rail. Slowly make a small circle
with the foot and slowly slide the shin down the railing. Do once or twice and then switch, facing
the rail but turning 45 degrees in the other direction to do your other shin.
Remember if you go too hard, too fast, too much, you'll only end up causing added problems as your
muscle will tighten up even more to protect itself from your intensity. Go for the grace.
Also remember that folklore means that if something doesnt' work for you, give it no power or energy
but rather find someone who makes sense and whose folklore works for you.
Folklore #3b
One thing I've found over the years is that the peroneus, the muscle which runs down the outside of
the leg - it everts the outside of the foot - often gets pulled and to protect itself it tightens-
i.e. shortens. After the healing of the ligaments around the ankle, that peroneus (longus and medius
portion) can remain in its semi-contracted state. which means it doesn't fully relax when the
posterior tibialis - its counterpart - lifts the inside of the foot up.
Way to loosen it with someone else helping.
Have your partner start about 3 inches above the ankle bone. Hold as if you are going to strangle -
fingers wrap around the lower leg, thumbs pointing toward each other or one thumb rests on the other
thumb (if more pressure is desired).
Have your partner use light pressure by pushing in with theirthumbs as you make a small (emphasis on
small), smooth (emphasis on smooth) circle. As you makes small smooth circles with the foot your
partner strangling your leg, slowly slides the thumbs up the peroneus muscle.
The idea is that you can loosen the muscle from any adhesions and also you can loosen up the fascia
which may be holding the peroneus from relaxing and going through it full range of motion.
Usually after 3 or 4 times of small circles and your partner holding, walk. More often than not,
you'll feel less pressure around the ankle as it can move more freely due to the freeing of the
peroneus higher up the leg...which takes the tightness off the ankle area.
The peroneus and posterior tibialis are often called stirrup muscles as they invert and evert the
foot. They are also postural muscles and therefore slow twitch, in that they help maintain correct
posture when functioning properly.
To do the same thing, face a railing with a middle railing (see picture from web site). Turn your
body 45 degrees and place the peroneus side of the leg on the bar, usually the lower is better
unless you're very tall. Do the same foot movement as mentioned above to loosen the peroneus and the
fascia which may be constricting the ankle for its full range of motion.
Get back to us and let us know how it works. The web site picture where I have a group of people
using the railing to loosen the belly of the calf muscle, gives you an idea of how to use the
railing. The railing you want to use is the middle railing: http://www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp
Folklore #3c
> I have for the last couple of weeks had a pain just above my right inside
ankle. If I hold up my leg and roll my foot to the inside, it causes the ankle to hurt. Snip-----
If I had that pain I'd look first to see if the posterior tibialis had tightened up in response to
the hill work.
Second, I'd have the "deep tissue cross friction message" read: "Please do some work on my peroneus,
especially the longus; and show me a few ways of how I might do that myself."
>From what you've said, I'd look at my form to see where I was landing on my
foot. I have been a strong proponent for ball/heel or midsole landing. That way I know that there is
no overstride. Probably you're getting some overstride in you heavy workout, which causes the
braking effect and causes the problem you mention.
Folklore #4
I'd look at the posterior tibialis, that muscle behind the shin bone on the inside.
1. You are seated
2. Left leg crossed on right thigh so outside of left leg rests on right thigh about 3 or 4 inches
above right knee.
3. place right thumb below left shin bone closest to you so it rests on the posterior tibialis
4. Right hand rest on the shin bone.
5. Place the left hand next to the right hand on the shin bone so that the left thumb rests on top
of the right thumb.
6. Make small (emphasis on small) and smooth (emphasis on smooth) circles with the left foot so
there is no (spelled NO) jerkiness - otherwise you're just straining tendon.
7. As you make the circle and the left toe goes downward, push in with the thumbs. With each circle
move the thumbs about a quarter of an inch further up the leg.
8. Find the spot that creates most pain and push more lightly at that spot so as not to create
excrutiating pain and then move thumbs away first upward and then away downward, pushing harder
so that you can feel the muscle under your thumbs let go.
9. If you push too hard, go too fast, wince the face, stop breathing because of the pain, go too
deep, you'll get the reverse of what you want.
10. What you want is that posterior tibialis to let go so that your circle can move easily. Usually
if it is bruised, the blood came from up above where the muscle tear took place and gravity let
it settle where the bruise
is.
11. You'd like also to make sure that the posterior tibialis is not flush up again the shin bone.
There should be some space where your thumb can go up that groove between the posterior shin
muscle and the shin bone.
Orgradually work to get it back, since if it's not there, then your shin is holding and probably the
fascia won't allow the muscle to go through its range of motion and also the micro tears of the
muscle or at the muscle tendon junction of the posterior shin muscle has scarred and also decreases
the range of motion for the posterior shin.
Let us know how it goes and what you learn so that we can all learn if my folklore worked for you,
or was just folklore that needed to be discarded because it didn't work.
Good luck with your experiment of one. Also during my training runs I often stop and work shins,
calves, haves and quads loose so that my training run might be broken up by 10 or 12 stops to
massage out or rub out the sore spots.
Check out the two articles listed and especially the pictures. I can use almost anything along my
running path to assist me as a tool to release or massage tight muscles:
http://www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp http://www.mindfulness.com/of5.asp
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:49:40 GMT, Mo <Amoron@there.com> wrote:
>Sounds like shin splints to me too.
>
>On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:33:45 -0400, "Perdy Tired" <sleeping@night.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John R. Rybock" <rybock@msn.com> wrote in message
>>news:70jkmvk0vrq2q13hrm61jcb2e44abcm8dg@4ax.com...
>>> Hey all. I was just sharing my experience with my knee, and decided to ask
>>about a new probklem I'm
>>> having:
>>>
>>> Basically, my shin is hurting. It is basically just towards the inside of
>>the left shin (if you're
>>> looking down on the round bone, it's at about 2 o'clock) about halfway
>>down (or up). Basically, it
>>> comes and goes, and when it hurts, it hurts when weight is placed on it.
>>It could hurt for 10
>>> minutes, then go away, or as long as 60. But it goes away.
>>
>>If you figure it out, let me know... I think we have the same problem! In my case, I believe it's
>>shin splints. My symptoms are virtually identical, although the pain no longer lasts as long. I've
>>had the problem for close to 8 weeks, and have cut back my running considerably, although I did
>>set two race PRs in that time! ;-)
>>
>>I doubt it's a fracture, since they're supposed to be painful a lot, and not just when you're
>>using your leg. In my case the shin hurts when I start running, and then after 5 or 10 minutes it
>>feels fine. At the end of the run it'll be achy again. Weird?
>>
>>Perdy.
>>
>>
I talked to a couple of doctor friends, just casually. They aren't sports medicine folk, so they
couldn't be too specific, but they both deduced it was a soft tissue injury, so while I haven't come
up with a description that seems to fully fit, that seems to be it. For the record, Isabel
interrupted the training schedule, so I've had a couple days off from running, and it seems to be
improving. Guess I just needed to pull back and let it heal.
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