Training to qualify for Boston

[Dana]

Hello Runners!

I am trying to develop a training schedule that will prepare me to quality for the Boston
Marathon. I have been running for over 5 years, and have completed 4 marathons, with my best at
3:59. To quality for Boston, I need to come in at 3:40. So basically, I need to cut 19 minutes
from my time.

When preparing for my last marathon, I only ran 4-5 days a week, with mileage at approx. 35 per
week. Besides a weekly long run, every day was pretty much the same run at the same pace.

Since my last marathon, I have bought a heart rate monitor, started speed training once a week, and
run low mileage tempo runs once a week. With the help of the heart rate monitor, I run 6-7 days a
week with mileage at 50+.

It has been 4 1/2 months since I have started this new training program and I have not seen any
significant improvements other than being able to increase my mileage. I recently ran a half
marathon and my finish time was 1:53. If I double this time, and add a few minutes, I am way off
from my goal finishing time of 3:40. And guess what? My marathon is in less than two months. What
could I be doing wrong? Perhaps too many easy days with the monitor???

I have found it very challenging to construct a marathon training schedule to finish at a particular
pace. All of the books/websites I a have researched only provide the basics of a schedule.
Therefore, I have the basics down well, but need some good advise as to what each workout should
look like and at what pace to finish at the qualifying time. Any suggestions or information would be
appreciated.

Dana

[Globaldisc]

I'll solve your problem real easily. Two words my dear, "CHERRY PICK". Since you did not go into
details, I am not going to assume your previous marathons were on fast/flat courses.

Tip:Look at Boston Qualifiers in Texas and Arizona for example. I believe New Orleans has a
Certified fast/flat course too. In fact, here ya go: http://www.floridamarathon.com/ It's a Boston
Qualifier, flat and fast.

It's not impossible to gain 20 minutes w/a favorable course relative to where you've been
Marathoning of course I can easily name some Marathons that would extend, and or reduce typical
times by 20 minutes for most runners....

Andrew...

[Donovan Rebbech]

In article <38ec7c4d.0309211814.62d4c966@posting.google.com>, Dana wrote:

> It has been 4 1/2 months since I have started this new training program and I have not seen any
> significant improvements other than being able to increase my mileage. I recently ran a half
> marathon and my finish time was 1:53. If I double this time, and add a few minutes, I am way off
> from my goal finishing time of 3:40. And guess what? My marathon is in less than two months. What
> could I be doing wrong? Perhaps too many easy days with the monitor???

You probably didn't taper for that the same way you'll taper for the marathon. You probably also
didn't do enough speed work for a good half marathon time. It's difficult to tell how it will go
based on your performance (which projects to about 3:53), because you will be at your best for the
marathon, whereas you probably were not for the half.

The two things you should think about as you approach the date are sharpening (some speed work), and
as you get closer, tapering.

> I have found it very challenging to construct a marathon training schedule to finish at a
> particular pace. All of the books/websites I a have researched only provide the basics of a
> schedule.

"Daniels' running formula" provides a lot of detail about training in general, and about marathon
training, in particular. The schedules in this book include specific recommendations for training
paces. I think several other books should do the same.

Based on your half marathon time, I don't think it looks all that good: you appear to be off 3:40
pace by 30 seconds per mile or so -- tapering will get you some time back, but probaly not 30s/mile.

You may want to consider deferring your attempt at a Boston qualifier until after you have at least
ran the half in under 1:50.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

[Rick++]

You sound like an average marathoner. Average peope probably need to run a 100 km a week to get
close to breakign three hours. or twice what you've been doing. Take a year to work up to this
intensity if you wish to avoid injury.

[Anders Lustig]

danaf@zoominternet.net (Dana) wrote in message
news:<38ec7c4d.0309211814.62d4c966@posting.google.com>...

> I am trying to develop a training schedule that will prepare me to quality for the Boston
> Marathon. I have been running for over 5 years, and have completed 4 marathons, with my best at
> 3:59. To quality for Boston, I need to come in at 3:40. So basically, I need to cut 19 minutes
> from my time.

3:40 to qualify? Hmm, that would appear to make you a
Ms. rather than a Mr (or as in Dana Zatopekova rather than in Dana Andrews), and under 35.

Shouldn´t be impossible.

> When preparing for my last marathon, I only ran 4-5 days a week, with mileage at approx. 35 per
> week. Besides a weekly long run, every day was pretty much the same run at the same pace.

This kind of training is far from ideal and by now almost guaranteed to produce no further
improvement, but as long as it doesn´t get boring, I don´t think anyone who is happy with it should
be in any hurry to change it.

> Since my last marathon, I have bought a heart rate monitor, started speed training once a week,
> and run low mileage tempo runs once a week. With the help of the heart rate monitor, I run 6-7
> days a week with mileage at 50+.

Speed training can mean a variety of things, anything from 200-400m repeats onwards - and you might
be better served by longer 800-1200m intervals at "10K pace", 3-4x10min or 2x15-20min at "HM pace"
and 30-50min at "M pace".

> It has been 4 1/2 months since I have started this new training program and I have not seen any
> significant improvements other than being able to increase my mileage.

That is a fairly significant improvement in itself.

> I recently ran a half marathon and my finish time was 1:53. If I double this time, and add a few
> minutes, I am way off from my goal finishing time of 3:40.

Agreed, the HM result doesn´t seem promising, but did you taoer for that race or did you continue
training 6-7 days a week?

> And guess what? My marathon is in less than two months. What could I be doing wrong? Perhaps too
> many easy days with the monitor???

You have five weeks to train before tapering for the marathon, it doesn´t have to take a miracle for
things to look better by race day.

Don´t blame the HRM, it doesn´t dictate your training schedule:-)

IMHO you should now incorporate two "quality" sessions a week, any two of the above should do - and
maybe give yourself one day of complete rest as well.

You can keep adding a bit to your long run, to up to three hours, that should be sufficient mileage.

Other than that, don´t forget to stretch, especially your hamstrings and hip flexors; you don´t want
your pace to be limited by the tightness of those muscles.

Anders

[Dana]

touho3@excite.com (Anders Lustig) wrote in message
news:<e621e2ab.0309222325.2d424063@posting.google.com>...
> danaf@zoominternet.net (Dana) wrote in message
> news:<38ec7c4d.0309211814.62d4c966@posting.google.com>...
>
> > I am trying to develop a training schedule that will prepare me to quality for the Boston
> > Marathon. I have been running for over 5 years, and have completed 4 marathons, with my best
> > at 3:59. To quality for Boston, I need to come in at 3:40. So basically, I need to cut 19
> > minutes from my time.
>
> 3:40 to qualify? Hmm, that would appear to make you a
> Ms. rather than a Mr (or as in Dana Zatopekova rather than in Dana Andrews), and under 35.
>
> Shouldn´t be impossible.
>
>
> > When preparing for my last marathon, I only ran 4-5 days a week, with mileage at approx. 35 per
> > week. Besides a weekly long run, every day was pretty much the same run at the same pace.
>
> This kind of training is far from ideal and by now almost guaranteed to produce no further
> improvement, but as long as it doesn´t get boring, I don´t think anyone who is happy with it
> should be in any hurry to change it.
>
>
> > Since my last marathon, I have bought a heart rate monitor, started speed training once a week,
> > and run low mileage tempo runs once a week. With the help of the heart rate monitor, I run 6-7
> > days a week with mileage at 50+.
>
> Speed training can mean a variety of things, anything from 200-400m repeats onwards - and you
> might be better served by longer 800-1200m intervals at "10K pace", 3-4x10min or 2x15-20min at "HM
> pace" and 30-50min at "M pace".
>
>
> > It has been 4 1/2 months since I have started this new training program and I have not seen any
> > significant improvements other than being able to increase my mileage.
>
> That is a fairly significant improvement in itself.
>
>
> > I recently ran a half marathon and my finish time was 1:53. If I double this time, and add a few
> > minutes, I am way off from my goal finishing time of 3:40.
>
> Agreed, the HM result doesn´t seem promising, but did you taoer for that race or did you continue
> training 6-7 days a week?
>
>
> > And guess what? My marathon is in less than two months. What could I be doing wrong? Perhaps too
> > many easy days with the monitor???
>
> You have five weeks to train before tapering for the marathon, it doesn´t have to take a miracle
> for things to look better by race day.
>
> Don´t blame the HRM, it doesn´t dictate your training schedule:-)
>
> IMHO you should now incorporate two "quality" sessions a week, any two of the above should do -
> and maybe give yourself one day of complete rest as well.
>
> You can keep adding a bit to your long run, to up to three hours, that should be sufficient
> mileage.
>
> Other than that, don´t forget to stretch, especially your hamstrings and hip flexors; you don´t
> want your pace to be limited by the tightness of those muscles.
>
>
> Anders

thanks for the feedback everyone. Just as a follow up, I didn't taper for the 1/2 marathon. In fact,
I had an 18 mile run the weekend before and 21 prior to that. Didn't even think that it would have
an effect on my 1/2 marathon time. Planning to sharpen my speedwork before the marathon....perhaps
I'll get close to my goal time!

[Capt Tellitlike]

Nice quote trim you moron.

On 24 Sep 2003 05:10:26 -0700, danaf@zoominternet.net (Dana) wrote:

>touho3@excite.com (Anders Lustig) wrote in message
>news:<e621e2ab.0309222325.2d424063@posting.google.com>...
>> danaf@zoominternet.net (Dana) wrote in message
>> news:<38ec7c4d.0309211814.62d4c966@posting.google.com>...
>>
>> > I am trying to develop a training schedule that will prepare me to quality for the Boston
>> > Marathon. I have been running for over 5 years, and have completed 4 marathons, with my best
>> > at 3:59. To quality for Boston, I need to come in at 3:40. So basically, I need to cut 19
>> > minutes from my time.
>>
>> 3:40 to qualify? Hmm, that would appear to make you a
>> Ms. rather than a Mr (or as in Dana Zatopekova rather than in Dana Andrews), and under 35.
>>
>> Shouldn´t be impossible.
>>
>>
>> > When preparing for my last marathon, I only ran 4-5 days a week, with mileage at approx. 35 per
>> > week. Besides a weekly long run, every day was pretty much the same run at the same pace.
>>
>> This kind of training is far from ideal and by now almost guaranteed to produce no further
>> improvement, but as long as it doesn´t get boring, I don´t think anyone who is happy with it
>> should be in any hurry to change it.
>>
>>
>> > Since my last marathon, I have bought a heart rate monitor, started speed training once a week,
>> > and run low mileage tempo runs once a week. With the help of the heart rate monitor, I run 6-7
>> > days a week with mileage at 50+.
>>
>> Speed training can mean a variety of things, anything from 200-400m repeats onwards - and you
>> might be better served by longer 800-1200m intervals at "10K pace", 3-4x10min or 2x15-20min at
>> "HM pace" and 30-50min at "M pace".
>>
>>
>> > It has been 4 1/2 months since I have started this new training program and I have not seen any
>> > significant improvements other than being able to increase my mileage.
>>
>> That is a fairly significant improvement in itself.
>>
>>
>> > I recently ran a half marathon and my finish time was 1:53. If I double this time, and add a
>> > few minutes, I am way off from my goal finishing time of 3:40.
>>
>> Agreed, the HM result doesn´t seem promising, but did you taoer for that race or did you continue
>> training 6-7 days a week?
>>
>>
>> > And guess what? My marathon is in less than two months. What could I be doing wrong? Perhaps
>> > too many easy days with the monitor???
>>
>> You have five weeks to train before tapering for the marathon, it doesn´t have to take a miracle
>> for things to look better by race day.
>>
>> Don´t blame the HRM, it doesn´t dictate your training schedule:-)
>>
>> IMHO you should now incorporate two "quality" sessions a week, any two of the above should do -
>> and maybe give yourself one day of complete rest as well.
>>
>> You can keep adding a bit to your long run, to up to three hours, that should be sufficient
>> mileage.
>>
>> Other than that, don´t forget to stretch, especially your hamstrings and hip flexors; you don´t
>> want your pace to be limited by the tightness of those muscles.
>>
>>
>> Anders
>
>
>thanks for the feedback everyone. Just as a follow up, I didn't taper for the 1/2 marathon. In
>fact, I had an 18 mile run the weekend before and 21 prior to that. Didn't even think that it would
>have an effect on my 1/2 marathon time. Planning to sharpen my speedwork before the
>marathon....perhaps I'll get close to my goal time!