How do I deal with it?
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I've been mulling over this one since Sunday.. :-(
On Sunday Gethin and I turned up for the club run at 9 am, the previous night we had been discussing
going out to Afan Argoed but in the end plumped for the club run. Only two other club members were
there plus an exWelsh Rugby International and his brother but no club captain as has been in
previous weeks. The route was chosen ( basically the same as last weeks) which is not one that I
enjoy in the first part ( it's up hill for about 7 miles) , with the words " we'll get to *******
and see what you guys ( Gethin and I want to do then) and we set off. The pace was quicker than
normal and I dropped off the back once or twice before we got to the hillier bit , then we hit it ,
and the onshore headwind , I went staight off the back , leaving Gethin and the other 4 , I followed
the route and after about 7-8 miles found Gethin ( 12) at the side of the road crying because he had
been dropped about a mile after me and he wasn't sure which way to go, I Think he was more worried
about the being lost than being dropped. We decided to use another route and make our way to the
traditional tea stop. Whilst we had our tea the other 4 went sailing past ...
A few questions
Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run ,
that's Saturday)
What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
that he stayed with me.
Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
--
Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc to email.
marc must be edykated coz e writed:
>
> A few questions
>
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
I would have expected the club run to stay together.
>
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
That's open to interpretation.
>
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
>
I would be annoyed if I were you, but in future you will know to keep him with you.
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
Racers can be ignorant twits, but that is usually the wanna be types and does not go for
the majority.
--
Ian
http://www.catrike.co.uk (http://www.catrike.co.uk/)
marc wrote:
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
Yes, I would say so though I have never been a member of a cycling club
>
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
Don't know
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
I would say you have the right to be annoyed. The lad droppped you first so maybe he should have
dropped back with you if neither of you wanted him left alone
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
Unlikely, I have found racers very selfish almost to the extent of considering non racing riders as
second class citizens.
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
>
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
>
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
>
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
>
> --
> Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc
> to email.
I think they're inconsiderate and/or ignorant. IMHO it's not worth riding with a club if everyone
goes at different speeds, so the rule (as I've always seen it) is that you cycle at the average
speed of the slowest member, and wait at the top of hills etc.
What sort of person would abandon a 12 year old on a ride anyway! It's a good job you were behind to
pick him up. But, as you say, would a racing club even notice? <gets out 'pot of tar' and 'one size
covers all' brush...>
btw, when you saw them sailing past at the tea shop....had they noticed yet that both of you had
left them..?
Regards,
Pete.
--
Peter Connolly Derby UK
>Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
>Saturday)
I would have thought so.
>What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
Dunno
>Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
>that he stayed with me.
Yes and yes, if you see what I mean. Firstly - the ones at the front should wait anyhow - it's not a
training run. If someone gets dropped off the back it could be due to an injury! Secondly, to leave
the 12 year-old alone is *appalling* I think. Put it this way - if I'd been on the run, there's no
way, no how I'd have left a 12 year-old alone like that. It's not on - it's uncaring, it's horrible.
You weren't asking them to babysit, just show some courtesy for a younger club member. Again -
Gethin could have been injured.
>Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
>
Depends on the club. The club the Unfit Family are in are quite welcoming.
Move to Norfolk and join a more welcoming club ;-)
Glad nothing serious happened to you or Gethin.
Cheers, helen s
~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~
"marc" <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1g25bkm.1glpdupn95gqN%marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk...
> I've been mulling over this one since Sunday.. :-(
>
Find a different club.
In article <1g25bkm.1glpdupn95gqN%marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk>, marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk says...
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
If it is anything similar to a running club then the captain has various responsibilities. Keeping
members aware of what's happening---ie standing up and shouting announcements before club runs,
sorting out teams for team events such as relays, being there most weeks. They don't have any
responsibility on a given run unless they happen to be leading
it.
Colin
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
>
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
>
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
>
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
>
Although I'm now largely past my club cycling days (I prefer going backwards in a boat for some
reason), I did cycle with a racing club from the age of about 14-16 on Sunday Club runs. They would
always pelt it up the hills at their own individual pace, then wait for everyone to regroup, before
going down together. On the flat, the stronger riders would spend more time at the front, while the
weaker guys (myself for the first year or so) got sheltered on all sides by more experienced riders.
I was still working pretty hard to keep up, but they got to work hard by not having a slipstream.
That was the policy on the club runs - we'd stay together pretty much whatever happened. If you got
a puncture then a couple of others would stay back and you'd meet up again further up the road or at
the designated tea stop. There was also a club chain gang on weekday evenings. Everyone was welcome,
but it run round a 3km streetlit circuit, so you only really had to do one lap with the group to
make sure you didn't get too lost when they dropped you. On that one, there was no waiting, which is
fair enough. I think the key is to differentiate hard training from a club ride, and make sure
everyone knows what the "rules" are.
marc wrote:
>
> A few questions
>
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
Absolutely. What otherwise it the purpose of getting together to ride. They may not all stay
completely together but should be aware and stop and wait at waypoints or convenient stops. If there
is a clear misunderstanding
(i.e. it is billed as a fast training ride and you've turned up expecting a potter then they should
stop and agree with you to break into seperate groups and make sure you know where you are and
where to go)
>
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
>
Whoever is leading the ride should take primary responsibility but everyone has a responsibility to
the group.
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
>
Absolutely to the first and if you were concerned also to the second.
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
This happened on a club ride I went on where the ride leader and a group stormed off leaving some
riders dropping quickly back out of sight. I chased the lead group and had some very strong words
with them about deciding whether they were on a club run or a personal training ride. They slowed
down and looked rather sheepish and it did not happen again while I rode with that club. So they can
change but you do need to explain the problem to them (assetively but not aggressively)
Tony
--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain
marc <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
: Saturday)
Yes. That's (IMO) the distinction between a training run and a club run. You can reasonalby expect
the group to split up on hills (people climb at different paces) but it should regroup at the tops.
: What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
No idea. This is pretty much club dependant I think. In our club the club captain is ment to lead
the runs, the chair is ment to run the club. Though I'd expect a committee member in that suitation
to not just bugger off.
: Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
: that he stayed with me.
I think it might have been worth having a word first - if the 12 year old is faster than you up hill
then you've probably not going to get him to stay with you (anyway, he'll have to get used to it at
some point), but someone should have stayed with him.
: Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
Depends on the club I'm afraid.
Arthur
--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org (http://www.clune.org/) "Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook
marc wrote:
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
It depends on the club. Club natures are basically determined by the membership, and if the
membership is primarily comprised of no-**** hard as nails types then you probably needn't apply if
you want waiting for. At the opposite extreme, our local CTC runs could prove *infuriating* to
anyone who really wants to eat miles, with all the stopping and waiting around even if you're not in
any sort of racing at all.
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
Again, depends on the club, what the constitution says, historical perspective within the club, the
degree to which the post is practical or ceremonial, and so on.
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
You've probably guessed the answer... Does the club have a specific policy for minors? If it does
you could expect it to be followed, if it doesn't then you have to question whether you think it
should, and if it should then what it should be.
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
Different clubs can be very different beasts. If the club has a tradition of nurturing young talent
then it would very probably see the above as a problem, if it had a tradition of honing already
capable athletes as its top priority then it may well not. Either of those, or all shades between
plus others, are quite possible in a "predominately racing club".
In summary, I think you're best off asking the other people in the club. Their answers and attitudes
should determine what you expect of them in the future. It could be the case that nobody's really
given it much thought before: a lot of things only get fixed in a lot of clubs in the wake of
something proving to be broken in use.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
marc tried to scribble ...
> Is it reasonable to expect a club run to stay together ( this isn't a trainign run , that's
> Saturday)
I thought that was the _whole idea_ of being 'in the club' .. ;)
> What is the role of a Club Captain as compared with the Chairman ( One of the 4 was the chairman)
Depends upon the club. Most club runs have a nominated, elected leader who should be responsible for
keeping the pack together etc etc .. ;)
> Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have ensured
> that he stayed with me.
Yes, maybe. As he obviously felt he was managing to keep with the pack, then I would suggest that
keeping with the pack is a better idea. At least you now know they can't be trusted to look after a
12 year old, and you can do so in future .. ;)
> Is a predominately racing club ever going to realise that any of the above is a problem?
Depends upon the club. I would say they should, but IMHE racers are a peculiar breed, and normal
riders behaviour may not be their idea of the 'norm' .. Certainly they don't normally entertain
anything, even 12 year olds, slowing them down .. ;)
Personally I'd give them a chance to redeem themselves, but I would also look at another club, one
more suited to your requirements.
--
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'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi, '02 Schumacher CAT 3000, '03 Losi Kinwald Triple-X, '03 Associated
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Peter Connolly <noemailrequired@nospamrequired.com> wrote:
> What sort of person would abandon a 12 year old on a ride anyway! It's a good job you were behind
> to pick him up.
It's an even better job that he didn't continue straight on where they turned right ( he was on his
own for about 6 miles) and that I didn't turn right as well
>
> btw, when you saw them sailing past at the tea shop....had they noticed yet that both of you had
> left them..?
I don't know! :-)
--
Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc to email.
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX <wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom> wrote:
> >Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have
> >ensured that he stayed with me.
>
> Yes and yes, if you see what I mean. Firstly - the ones at the front should wait anyhow - it's not
> a training run. If someone gets dropped off the back it could be due to an injury! Secondly, to
> leave the 12 year-old alone is *appalling* I think. Put it this way - if I'd been on the run,
> there's no way, no how I'd have left a 12 year-old alone like that. It's not on - it's uncaring,
> it's horrible. You weren't asking them to babysit, just show some courtesy for a younger club
> member. Again - Gethin could have been injured.
Well in future I will make sure that if he gets dropped he then waits for me, and your right I'm not
expecting them to babysit, which is why I'm going out with them. But I'm half pleased that he didn't
give up and was still trying to chase them , talking to him later it seems it was technique that
caused him to drop out ( change of pace on the hill caught him out) not speed, but of course once he
was on his own he cound't catch up.
--
Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc to email.
MSeries <skankmartin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have
> > ensured that he stayed with me.
>
> I would say you have the right to be annoyed. The lad droppped you first
He's used to doing that!
> so maybe he should have dropped back with you if neither of you wanted him left alone
He will in future, but I just didn't forsee this happening.
--
Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc to email.
Ian <spamandchips@greasy.joes> wrote:
> > Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have
> > ensured that he stayed with me.
> >
> I would be annoyed if I were you, but in future you will know to keep him with you.
Oh yes!
--
Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc to email.
"marc" <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1g25f3s.146anm4k89t0zN%marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk...
> Ian <spamandchips@greasy.joes> wrote:
>
> > > Am I right to be annoyed that they left a 12 year old to fend for himself or should I have
> > > ensured that he stayed with me.
> > >
> > I would be annoyed if I were you, but in future you will know to keep
him
> > with you.
>
> Oh yes!
There again he clearly survived the experience. Look at the positives. Your 12 year old had the
determination to try to keep up with the pack and the fitness to leave you in his dust.
He had the ability to cycle on his own for (I think you said) six miles before taking the entirely
reasonable and sensible decision to wait for Dad. (OK -- there was a little bit of fortune in that
you also missed the turn -- but the lad had done well enough on his own up to then and would
doubtless have been sensible enough to make a reasonable choice if you had not hauled into sight).
Sounds to me like you have every reason to be proud of the lad. He did nothing wrong and a lot of
things right. He will be stronger, more confident and more independent because of it -- and you can
extend the apron cords a bit more.
T
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX <wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom> wrote:
> >Well in future I will make sure that if he gets dropped he then waits for me, and your right I'm
> >not expecting them to babysit, which is why I'm going out with them. But I'm half pleased that he
> >didn't give up and was still trying to chase them , talking to him later it seems it was
> >technique that caused him to drop out ( change of pace on the hill caught him out) not speed, but
> >of course once he was on his own he cound't catch up.
>
> Just a thought here, Marc. In my original reply (looking at it again) it might have looked that I
> was considering *your* "leaving a 12 year-old" alone appalling. If that's how you read it, it
> wasn't meant that way :-)
I didn't!
> What I was trying to say was I think it was appalling of the other riders - firstly to leave you
> off the back
That can deal with , I'm a big boy and I knew that I was going to get dropped on that hill
beforehand
>and secondly to leave a youngster off the back.
I want to know how fast they were going, Gethin doesn't hang around and last week spent the
whole run trying to chase down the tandem , so they must have been really hammering to drop him
so quickly.
>Would you like me to waft over in PSF mode and give them a good slabbing??
I'll wait until Friday night when I speak to the captain before I decide.
--
Marc Please note this is now a redundant email address. Add an extra c at the end of marc to email.
Tony W <tonyREMOVE@chapmore.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I would be annoyed if I were you, but in future you will know to keep
> him
> > > with you.
> >
> > Oh yes!
>
> There again he clearly survived the experience. Look at the positives.
Thank you, you're right, I'm probably dwelling a little bit too much on negatives at the moment.
"marc" <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1g25ish.19qqp7z1jw4jvfN%marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk...
>
> Thank you, you're right, I'm probably dwelling a little bit too much on negatives at the moment.
Don't get me wrong -- I'd still bollock the leader and find another club. But the lad done good.
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