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steel/carbon road frames
I'm looking to by a steel/carbon hybrid road frame. LeMond bicycles is taking their 04 line in this direction, and Serotta has some experience here with their Coer d'acier frame. Does anyone know if this hybrid technology is durable. I've been reading that oclv carbon (particularly Trek) is super durable. Lemond would use this same carbon tubing, but with a lug system fitted to steel. Any thoughts anyone? I appreciate any input here.
I just bought a Strong frame that uses Columbus Foco steel with Columbus Muscle Carbon stays and a Super Muscle front fork. I plan on to building it up during the coming month, so I cannot yet comment on its ride quality. The combination is very appealing in terms of strength, longevity and comfort.
Perhaps you could contact Carl Strong (strong@strongframes.com) and get more feedback from him. He's very pleasant to deal with (although he may still be at Interbike).
Regards, Robert
I looked at the Strong frame and was definitely impressed, especially for the custom frame price . Nice work with the 20% off discount too (does that discount cover the carbon stays too?). As far as the ride is concerned, it does seem like a natural. I am definitely going to pose the question to Carl. Thanks for your help. After you put this sweetheart of a bike together, let me know what you think. You'll likely have your bike on the road before I make my decision. Thanks again.
Josh
Steel/Carbon combo is nothing new. There are many companies that offer this.
Newer models will usually give you a full rear triangle. Older models only the seat stays.
Do online searches and lok at the many brands. Here we offer the following brands:
Carrera
Ciocc
Coppi
DeBernardi
Moser
The new Marins have are steel with carbon forks and seat and chain stays. Check them out at http://www.marinbikes.com
I don't like the look of it at all. I have a 2002 Marin San Marino. It is all steel. The front fork, chainstays and seatstays are all chrome tapered steel. It looks old school and mean. Too bad Marin has fallen victim to all the carbon hype.
STEEL IS REAL!
I don't like the look of it at all. I have a 2002 Marin San Marino. It is all steel. The front fork, chainstays and seatstays are all chrome tapered steel. It looks old school and mean. Too bad Marin has fallen victim to all the carbon hype.
STEEL IS REAL! [/QUOTE]
Dear Sir,
I agree to that. I'm curious why make a hybrid when one can have all steel? There are lots of light and vibration-absorbing all steel in the market. Steel has a long fatigue-free life (unless it's an air light frame or it's rusted at the joints). I don't know about the fatigue life of carbon fibre stays with the type of glues used on it especially if it's mended to steel main triangles.
Originally posted by mgamutan
I don't like the look of it at all. I have a 2002 Marin San Marino. It is all steel. The front fork, chainstays and seatstays are all chrome tapered steel. It looks old school and mean. Too bad Marin has fallen victim to all the carbon hype.
STEEL IS REAL!
Dear Sir,
I agree to that. I'm curious why make a hybrid when one can have all steel? There are lots of light and vibration-absorbing all steel in the market. Steel has a long fatigue-free life (unless it's an air light frame or it's rusted at the joints). I don't know about the fatigue life of carbon fibre stays with the type of glues used on it especially if it's mended to steel main triangles. [/QUOTE]
As you can see above, I had the same concern. Carl Strong of Strong Frames has the following to say. "We bond carbon to steel with an aerospace two part epoxy. The process is
very reliable and we haven't had one single problem yet. I wouldn't worry a bit about using carbon and steel together." I have to agree with you guys, steel is great. You gotta admit though, during a really long ride, using an enhanced shock absorbing material (without taking away the "feel") is a good idea. It may be the frame material de Jour right now, but it's around for a good reason too, right? I'm interested to find out more. If I can't find anything I like though, I 'm gonna get a steel bike.
Originally posted by gregk
The new Marins have are steel with carbon forks and seat and chain stays. Check them out at http://www.marinbikes.com
I don't like the look of it at all. I have a 2002 Marin San Marino. It is all steel. The front fork, chainstays and seatstays are all chrome tapered steel. It looks old school and mean. Too bad Marin has fallen victim to all the carbon hype.
STEEL IS REAL!
Nice bikes...The geometry is perfect for me too.
Originally posted by xavier
Steel/Carbon combo is nothing new. There are many companies that offer this.
Newer models will usually give you a full rear triangle. Older models only the seat stays.
Do online searches and lok at the many brands. Here we offer the following brands:
Carrera
Ciocc
Coppi
DeBernardi
Moser
Checking it now. Thanks.
Originally posted by Jcupriks
I'm looking to by a steel/carbon hybrid road frame. LeMond bicycles is taking their 04 line in this direction, and Serotta has some experience here with their Coer d'acier frame. Does anyone know if this hybrid technology is durable. I've been reading that oclv carbon (particularly Trek) is super durable. Lemond would use this same carbon tubing, but with a lug system fitted to steel. Any thoughts anyone? I appreciate any input here. Bonding technology has been around for a long time.It works. It is even used in space stuff.
Originally posted by mgamutan
I don't like the look of it at all. I have a 2002 Marin San Marino. It is all steel. The front fork, chainstays and seatstays are all chrome tapered steel. It looks old school and mean. Too bad Marin has fallen victim to all the carbon hype.
STEEL IS REAL!
Dear Sir,
I agree to that. I'm curious why make a hybrid when one can have all steel? There are lots of light and vibration-absorbing all steel in the market. Steel has a long fatigue-free life (unless it's an air light frame or it's rusted at the joints). I don't know about the fatigue life of carbon fibre stays with the type of glues used on it especially if it's mended to steel main triangles. [/QUOTE] Actually,steel is the least vibration damping of the current frame materials,and all steel has the same properties in that respect.
Originally posted by boudreaux
Dear Sir,
I agree to that. I'm curious why make a hybrid when one can have all steel? There are lots of light and vibration-absorbing all steel in the market. Steel has a long fatigue-free life (unless it's an air light frame or it's rusted at the joints). I don't know about the fatigue life of carbon fibre stays with the type of glues used on it especially if it's mended to steel main triangles. Actually,steel is the least vibration damping of the current frame materials,and all steel has the same properties in that respect. [/QUOTE]
I've only ridden steel bikes myself, and thought steel was the best. But after a testride on the new Trek 2300 (Al/carbon fork and seatstays), I'm switching to carbon fork and stays on the next bike, with AL main tubes. One ride convinced me that maybe my steel frame and downtube shifters just weren't the ultimate anymore, much as I'm attached to them.
Nothing wrong with steel. My 10 yr old 531 steel Raleigh RT 600 (w Cr-Mo fork) is a great frame, strong and wobble-free, lively ride. The Reynolds tubing is glued to forged AL head and seat stays. But will never have the plush ride of the new carbon fork and stay bikes. I'm ready for something without the buzz on course road surfaces! Seems to me the carbon rear stays can do for the back what the carbon forks have done for the front end...tune out road harshness without sacrificing stiffness.
Note, my 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport (heavier gauge 531) feels very harsh vs the RT600. When I bought it, compared to my old stell bike in 1974, I thought it too had a great ride!
Dan
[/QUOTE]
I've only ridden steel bikes myself, and thought steel was the best. But after a testride on the new Trek 2300 (Al/carbon fork
Nothing wrong with steel. My 10 yr old 531 steel Raleigh RT 600 (w Cr-Mo fork) is a great frame, strong and wobble-free, lively ride. The Reynolds tubing is glued to forged AL head and seat stays. But will never have the plush ride of the new carbon fork and stay bikes. I'm ready for something without the buzz on course road surfaces! Seems to me the carbon rear stays can do for the back what the carbon forks have done for the front end...tune out road harshness without sacrificing stiffness.
Dan [/QUOTE] You are simply kidding yourself. There is certainly much better steel today than a 10 year old bonded Raliegh,and CF forks and stays won't make a poorly designed Al or any other frame plush.
Boudreaux: Well, seems to me the carbon fork has quickly become the standard in higher-end frames; don't hear any serious arguements for going back to steel forks out there.
IMO, carbon can bring those same benefits to the rear of the bike.....stiffness and damping. Cannondale marketing book argues that they evaluated carbon rear stays for their new CAAD 7 Optimo AL frame, but decided that they could save weight and still get a good ride with their curved seatstays.
What ultimate steel frame/fork should I look at then,before I go and make a big investment in my new custom frame? I can have several grades of steel frames built for about what the AL/carbon rear/carbon fork will cost.....what would you recommend, and why?
Dan
Originally posted by dhk
Boudreaux: Well, seems to me the carbon fork has quickly become the standard in higher-end frames; don't hear any serious arguements for going back to steel forks out there.
IMO, carbon can bring those same benefits to the rear of the bike.....stiffness and damping. Cannondale marketing book argues that they evaluated carbon rear stays for their new CAAD 7 Optimo AL frame, but decided that they could save weight and still get a good ride with their curved seatstays.
What ultimate steel frame/fork should I look at then,before I go and make a big investment in my new custom frame? I can have several grades of steel frames built for about what the AL/carbon rear/carbon fork will cost.....what would you recommend, and why?
Dan CF is lighter and cheaper to make than a quality steel fork. People want light, and cheaper is where the bottom line is. Does not mean they are better and there are lots of variation in ride and some are dismal. Don't be so quick buy any manufactures hype. For the better known names,check with Serotta,Seven,Landshark or IF.they all do good steel. There are are also plenty of smaller builders around that can create what you need.
Originally posted by xavier
Do online searches and lok at the many brands. Here we offer the following brands:
Carrera
Ciocc
Coppi
DeBernardi
Moser
…add Orbea to the list for a steel main triangle with carbon seat stays.
Dear Sir,
I agree to that. I'm curious why make a hybrid when one can have all steel? There are lots of light and vibration-absorbing all steel in the market. Steel has a long fatigue-free life (unless it's an air light frame or it's rusted at the joints). I don't know about the fatigue life of carbon fibre stays with the type of glues used on it especially if it's mended to steel main triangles. [/QUOTE]
I was told by my local framebuilder that he was a bit puzzled by the carbon rear end. I suppose it works for manufactured frames, but he said the steel was actually lighter and more shock absorbent when done right. Also, he said the carbon rear end is usually heavier than his steel rear triangle, but if I wanted the carbon stays, he offers that to people who want it. Essentially, the carbon didn't really offer anything over a well built steel rear triangle. Interesting. I trust the man, he even offers the carbon rear end as an option. It's not that he's a steel grouch either. He told me he likes the carbon fork alot, too.
--Pat.
Well, have a couple of challenges for you. First, my impression was that the thinnest (lightest) ultra steel tubings aren't even available in fork tubes. For that reason, Columbus themselves, probably the best-known maker of high-end steel and Al tubesets, markets a line of carbon fiber forks.
I'm certainly not quick to buy any manufacturer's hype, but did check out the Serotta website. Here's some of their copy, comparing the CF rear to the classic steel option:
"The future of road bikes is available now, only at Serotta. We combine a curved carbon ‘spring’ with 3D XL Micro Pivots with sealed bearings to produce the optimal level of active suspension and vibration damping for a high performance ride any pro cyclist would envy. Like magic, the ST system improves every aspect of cycling-control, cornering, descending or out of the saddle climbing. We select from numerous chainstay /ST combinations to meet the individual’s requirements."
Or, how about their pitch for adding the carbon rear stay to the Concours: "The Concours/CS incorporates our proprietary ‘CS’ carbon stay for a ride that is out of this world. Improved vibration damping makes hard cornering a delight ‘because you stick like glue', and after a long day in the saddle your back will thank you."
This may be over-hyped just a bit, but I am convinced that the improvement is worth the $300 extra they charge. Once you're at $2450 for the frame, what's another $300?
Serotta apparently have already seen the advantages of carbon forks and stays. Regardless of how you view the marketing forces at work, seems to me they are quickly becoming the standard on high-end metal road frames.
Dan
Originally posted by boudreaux
Bonding technology has been around for a long time.It works. It is even used in space stuff.
I've really gotten that impression for aluminum and carbon fiber but not steel. I'm learning now that you are right. By the way, thanks for the spirited debate on my thread. I will definitely look at some of the steel names that you mentioned.
Josh
Originally posted by Pat Lee
Dear Sir,
I agree to that. I'm curious why make a hybrid when one can have all steel? There are lots of light and vibration-absorbing all steel in the market. Steel has a long fatigue-free life (unless it's an air light frame or it's rusted at the joints). I don't know about the fatigue life of carbon fibre stays with the type of glues used on it especially if it's mended to steel main triangles.
I was told by my local framebuilder that he was a bit puzzled by the carbon rear end. I suppose it works for manufactured frames, but he said the steel was actually lighter and more shock absorbent when done right. Also, he said the carbon rear end is usually heavier than his steel rear triangle, but if I wanted the carbon stays, he offers that to people who want it. Essentially, the carbon didn't really offer anything over a well built steel rear triangle. Interesting. I trust the man, he even offers the carbon rear end as an option. It's not that he's a steel grouch either. He told me he likes the carbon fork alot, too.
--Pat. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info.
Josh
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