Stupid gearing (or an encounter with Succombs Hill)
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On resuming cycling after an enforced six week break, I decided that it would be a good idea to
steer clear of any difficult routes in order to maximise the enjoyment of the ride. This of course
included steep hills. But those of you who have followed my occasional posts to the group may know I
have thing for climbing hills, and yesterday the siren song proved too strong, so I decided I would
go for broke and tackle the hardest hill in my area - Succombs Hill.
This hill is rather short - about just over a quarter of a mile. However, it is *steep* - a 'single
arrow' slope to begin with, followed by a 25% slope conveniently located near the top. However, I
have done it in the past so I figured I shouldn't have any problems this time around.
Well, I rode from my home in South London till I got to Wapses Lodge roundabout from which the hill
begins. I instantly engaged into a 32 inch gear and started to
climb. I was able to make it up the single arrow slope without too much difficulty by not exerting
myself too much, and I actually believed I would be able to make it all the way up.
Then I started up the 25% section, and it instantly became hard going - it was looking like I was
going to be defeated by this hill. But I had a joker in the pack - a 23 inch gear which I thought
should be more than enough to see me up this hill. So I changed down again, and I was doing OK for
all of three seconds, when all of a sudden I did a 'wheelie'! "Hey, that's not in the script!" I
thought, and brought the bike under control again, whereupon I did another wheelie! Faced with the
choice of the wrath of motorists annoyed at my playing silly buggers on a very steep road and
accepting defeat at the hands of the hill, I chose the latter option and pushed my bike over to the
pavement, where I continued pushing it up the hill.
So here are the inevitable questions:
1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear? Would staying in a higher gear have prevented this?
2. When I got off, I was experiencing back and abdominal pains, as though those muscles had been
hard at work on the hill. What work would these muscles have had to do on the climb?
Cheers,
--
Akin
aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk
"Sky Fly" <nobody@blackhole.com> wrote in message
news:bogmjn$1e8to8$1@ID-18325.news.uni-berlin.de...
> 1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear?
Coz you're not on a tandem. It's just the opposite of applying your front brake too hard - your
pedalling force will tend to lift the front wheel, and in a jolly low gear and on a steep hill the
effect is strongest.
You just need to redistribute your bodyweight. Getting out of the saddle works very well for this.
> Would staying in a higher gear have prevented this?
Sort of, but at the expense of actually giving you enough force on the wheel to get you up
that hill!
cheers, clive
Sky Fly wrote:
> 1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear? Would staying in a higher gear have prevented
> this?
Don't use higher gears purely for that reason if you can help it. Smooth moderate pedalling with
good weight distribution and not pulling suddenly on the bars strongly should prevent the wheelies
once on the move. In fact you might be better off with even lower gears if you can't climb smoothly
with what you have - although there does come a point where it's hard to balance because you're
going so slowly (and 23" is a wall-climbing gear already). Strengthening the legs will then help you
to use higher gears properly instead. Might be necessary for 25%. That's a mad gradient!
Also try starting in a higher gear (then changing down) if to avoid the take-off wheelies ...or just
enjoy them! :-)
~PB
"Sky Fly" <nobody@blackhole.com> writes:
> So here are the inevitable questions:
>
> 1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear? Would staying in a higher gear have prevented
> this?
When you get out of the saddle and stomp, the drive to the rear wheel is very unsmooth: it comes in
great pulses as your feet go down. Each of these pulses causes considerable (temporary)
acceleration. On a steep hill, particularly if your bike has a short wheelbase, the centre of
gravity is not far forward of the rear contact patch in any case, so it doesn't take much
acceleration to lift the front wheel.
The solution is two fold
(i) Sit and spin as long as you can. So long as you're spinning and not mashing the power delivery
is relatively smooth, so you don't get as severe pulses of acceleration.
(ii) Keep your centre of gravity as far forward as possible. When seated, lean your torso far
forward. When standing, try to keep your body weight vertically over the pedals. On very steep
hills you'll find there comes a point where your seated body puts your CofG aft of the rear
contact patch, so you _have_ to get up to prevent going over backwards, and then keeping the
bike going gets _very_ tricky. Fortunately, roads are very rarely that steep.
> 2. When I got off, I was experiencing back and abdominal pains, as though those muscles had been
> hard at work on the hill. What work would these muscles have had to do on the climb?
Standing or sitting? If standing, they're doing a lot of holding the bike upright, which is normally
done by your but on the saddle.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of bytes. Any opinion or meaning
you find in it is your own creation.
"Sky Fly" <nobody@blackhole.com> wrote in message
news:bogmjn$1e8to8$1@ID-18325.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Then I started up the 25% section, and it instantly became hard going - it was looking like I was
> going to be defeated by this hill. But I had a joker in the pack - a 23 inch gear which I thought
> should be more than enough to see me up this hill.
I came across this hill, totally out of the blue when riding home from
knackered, I didn't even attempt it :o(
Also the bend and the cars make it a bit too unpleasant for me to want to play on it.
> "Sky Fly" <nobody@blackhole.com> wrote in message
> news:bogmjn$1e8to8$1@ID-18325.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > 1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear?
> Coz you're not on a tandem. It's just the opposite of applying your front brake too hard - your
> pedalling force will tend to lift the front wheel, and in a jolly low gear and on a steep hill the
> effect is strongest.
> You just need to redistribute your bodyweight. Getting out of the saddle works very well for this.
> > Would staying in a higher gear have prevented this?
> Sort of, but at the expense of actually giving you enough force on the wheel to get you up
> that hill!
> cheers, clive
Front panniers can prevent wheelies.
--
Helen D. Vecht: helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk Edgware.
"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:87wuac3sxy.fsf@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> "Sky Fly" <nobody@blackhole.com> writes:
>
> > So here are the inevitable questions:
> >
> > 1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear? Would staying in a higher gear have prevented
> > this?
>
> When you get out of the saddle and stomp, the drive to the rear wheel is very unsmooth: it comes
> in great pulses as your feet go down. Each of these pulses causes considerable (temporary)
> acceleration. On a steep hill, particularly if your bike has a short wheelbase, the centre of
> gravity is not far forward of the rear contact patch in any case, so it doesn't take much
> acceleration to lift the front wheel.
>
> The solution is two fold
>
> (i) Sit and spin as long as you can. So long as you're spinning and not mashing the power
> delivery is relatively smooth, so you don't get as severe pulses of acceleration.
Actually Simon, I *was* sitting - I'm not a fan of 'la danseuse', especially on a steep hill where I
need as much control over the bike as possible.
> (ii) Keep your centre of gravity as far forward as possible. When seated, lean your torso far
> forward. When standing, try to keep your body weight vertically over the pedals. On very
> steep hills you'll find there comes a point where your seated body puts your CofG aft of the
> rear contact patch, so you _have_ to get up to prevent going over backwards, and then keeping
> the bike going gets _very_ tricky. Fortunately, roads are very rarely that steep.
Yeah, I might try that if the mad thought enters my head to do a hill that steep again. Personally,
I doubt I will try again, unless someone starts paying good money for doing 25% gradients.
> > 2. When I got off, I was experiencing back and abdominal pains, as though those muscles had been
> > hard at work on the hill. What work would these muscles have had to do on the climb?
>
> Standing or sitting? If standing, they're doing a lot of holding the bike upright, which is
> normally done by your but on the saddle.
As I mentioned earlier, I was sitting all the way. Any explanation in this case?
--
Akin
aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk
Sky Fly wrote:
> As I mentioned earlier, I was sitting all the way. Any explanation in this case?
The same explanation (and my reply too) still applies. Pulses of hard acceleration cause the
wheelies - which can be reduced by smoothing out the power delivery (and improving weight
distribution if necessary).
~PB
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:45:50 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht <helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Front panniers can prevent wheelies.
But only if they're wheelie heavy.
--
Dave...
Sky Fly wrote:
>
> Actually Simon, I *was* sitting - I'm not a fan of 'la danseuse', especially on a steep hill where
> I need as much control over the bike as possible.
>
If you are sitting lean forward and bend you elbows so you are pulling back on the bars with each
pedal stroke, not upwards which is the more natural position. Helps keep the front wheel on the
ground a lot more.
Tony
Dave Kahn wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:45:50 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht <helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Front panniers can prevent wheelies.
>
> But only if they're wheelie heavy.
Groan
Tony ;-)
> Front panniers can prevent wheelies.
Or try going up backwards.
"Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.com>typed
> Dave Kahn wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:45:50 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht <helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Front panniers can prevent wheelies.
> >
> > But only if they're wheelie heavy.
> Groan
> Tony ;-)
Groan. They don't have to be heavy either.
--
Helen D. Vecht: helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk Edgware.
Sky Fly wrote:
>
> Simon Brooke wrote:
> >
> > (ii) Keep your centre of gravity as far forward as possible. When seated, lean your torso far
> > forward. When standing, try to keep your body weight vertically over the pedals. On very
> > steep hills you'll find there comes a point where your seated body puts your CofG aft of
> > the rear contact patch, so you _have_ to get up to prevent going over backwards, and then
> > keeping the bike going gets _very_ tricky. Fortunately, roads are very rarely that steep.
>
> Yeah, I might try that if the mad thought enters my head to do a hill that steep again.
> Personally, I doubt I will try again, unless someone starts paying good money for doing 25%
> gradients.
>
F&*k me. You roadies are *such* girls. When the going gets steep, just shove the nose of the saddle
up yer a&*e, bite the bullet and keep pumping. Remember, it's not who gets up there first. It's who
does it with the most style and hasn't lost a lung on the way up. :o)
P.S. Ignore the motorbike bits in my sig. I'm a mountain biker really :o)
--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8 http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk (http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk/) Windy's
"little soldier"
"Sky Fly" <nobody@blackhole.com> wrote in message
news:bogmjn$1e8to8$1@ID-18325.news.uni-berlin.de...
> 1. Why the spontaneous wheelies in the low gear? Would staying in a higher gear have prevented
> this?
As any proper mountainbiker <1> knows riding up steep hills in a low gear without lifting the front
wheel is a question of weight distribution and careful power application.
I.E. you need to get your weight forward on the bike and try to pedal in circles rather than mashing
down on the pedals. Off-road this can be easier said than done because at some point the back
wheel can (will) lose traction and spin out so a degree of skill is required. On-road this is
less of a problem but even so if the suface is remotely slippery it can happen, indeed it does
on one or two of the short, sharp hills I ascend on my 23mm tyred road bike.
<1> Not someone riding a Barracuda on the pavement ;-)
Pete
"Alex Ferrier" <alex@alex-f.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bohc8m$196$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
> Remember, it's not who gets up there first. It's who does it with the most style and hasn't lost a
> lung on the way up. :o)
Hey, a man after me own heart! My younger riding companions generally lose me on the climbs and have
to stop and wait for me but when I reach them they are knackered and still hyperventilating long
after I've recovered :-) Yer gotta have style!
Pete
Peter B wrote:
>
> Hey, a man after me own heart! My younger riding companions generally lose me on the climbs and
> have to stop and wait for me but when I reach them they are knackered and still hyperventilating
> long after I've recovered :-) Yer gotta have style!
>
I don't have style but I do stop a lot to take photos on the big climbs ;-)
Tony
"Alex Ferrier" <alex@alex-f.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Sky Fly wrote:
> >
> > Simon Brooke wrote:
> > >
> > > (ii) Keep your centre of gravity as far forward as possible. When seated, lean your torso far
> > > forward. When standing, try to keep your body weight vertically over the pedals. On very
> > > steep hills you'll find there comes a point where your seated body puts your CofG aft of
> > > the rear contact patch, so you _have_ to get up to prevent going over backwards, and then
> > > keeping the bike going gets _very_ tricky. Fortunately, roads are very rarely that steep.
> >
> > Yeah, I might try that if the mad thought enters my head to do a hill that steep again.
> > Personally, I doubt I will try again, unless someone starts paying good money for doing 25%
> > gradients.
>
> F&*k me. You roadies are *such* girls. When the going gets steep, just shove the nose of the
> saddle up yer a&*e, bite the bullet and keep pumping.
Doesn't matter if you'e on road or off, the advice is the same; or at least, the only difference is,
when off-road, when you can no longer keep your **** in the saddle and the front wheel on the
ground, hit the rear suspension lockout when you stand up. But then you're going to have trouble
with traction - mashing on gravel or mud or wet rock is just going to cause the rear wheel to slip,
and you won't get up; so stay in the saddle and spin as long as you can.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of bytes. Any opinion or meaning
you find in it is your own creation.
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