Why "Running"...What Gives?
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I venture that....Roger is it?.......I venture Roger even finds some of these trolls as an
embarrassment to the craft (if you wanna call it that). Roger's intelligent & not unfamiliar with
being clever and witty. The crude & rude trolls are not so much "trolls" but simply unpleasant &
angry people. Their fascination with Donovan I suspect is born out of jealousy & envy. Donovan's
post reflect intimate & detailed knowledge of all angles/aspects of the topic (running) and note
his education credentials (in his sig). I suppose this is a constant reminder to the would-be
troll that Donovan's accomplished in 2 realms where the troll is not and troll reacts with anger.
Just a theory.
But why such passionate trolls on a running ng? I don't get that one. Runners generally imo are well
balanced people, more balanced than most of society. I am not going to assume these trolls are
runners.....but I have never seen such passionate and dedicated trolling like I do on this ng. Can
others make this same observation?....r.r. has got to be one of the most intensive trolled ng's on
the usenet. What's that all about? Does anyone know if the Cyclist, Swimming, or Bowling ng's for
that matter....have the troll level and intensity r.r. does? I've never come across anything like
some of the "disturbed" souls and minds here...and i acutally don't include Roger in that....he's a
legit quality troll taking pride in his mischief and "play".
I just would think the hardcore trolling would be in areas pertaining to Mac OS
v. Windows v. Linux or something like that. Political or environmental ng's, etc. I have read a lot
about the psychology, motivation, and objective of trolls that explains the whole deal, types,
levels, etc. OK...I understand that part of the equation. I outlined why I suspect they are
focused so relentlessly on Donovan. But what is it about "running"? Why are we so fortunate to be
the home of such hardcore trolls and angry people? A Running ng? This is an ng where you express
authentic information on "self" (progress, achievement, problems, goals, etc.)...is that part of
it? Why the focus on a running ng? Wha't up with that? Don't mean to feed the bears......but I
just don't get their focus on a running...I am puzzled by this and was wondering if there's a
simple explanation behind it that I am not getting. I understand the nature of the troll, I just
don't understand their "zero'ing in" on running.
Andrew
In article <20031210082303.16022.00000414@mb-m21.aol.com>,
Globaldisc <globaldisc@aol.com> wrote:
[snip]
>I understand the nature of the troll, I just don't understand their "zero'ing in" on running.
You really don't understand troll nature if that's a question still. Hint: You started by saying
something positive about a troll.
Trolls live on response. If they're ignored, they go away. Many r.r. regulars have been playing
with the trolls, encouraging them, and saying that some are 'clever' or 'witty'. You may as well
hang out signs saying 'trolls wanted'.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this
great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more
abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
In article <20031210082303.16022.00000414@mb-m21.aol.com>, globaldisc@aol.com says...
>
> But why such passionate trolls on a running ng?
I dunno, but to tell you the truth, I find this group to be almost useless. I don't mind a clever
*troll* like Roger, who brings an intelligent wit to his posts, but the rest of the trolls here are
simply childish and repetitive. It seems every serious questions garners maybe
Nike bashing, treadmill dissing, etc. And they aren't really *trolls*. I recall that that in the old
days, a *troll* was a seemingly serious post designed to lure in the unsuspecting newbie in order to
make a fool of him in some fashion. What we have here is simply Jr. High toilet humor. And not all
that much humor, either.
I'm guessing that one reason is that there is little new to discuss where running is concerned. All
of the intelligent questions have been asked and answered hundreds of times. That means that only
two types of questions can no be asked: good questions that have been asked over and over, or dumb
questions. Neither is likely to get a good response.
If anyone is aware of any other forums where running is discussed, please let me know.
-Fountainhead
> I just don't understand their "zero'ing in" on running.
Bill is responsible for 99% of the alleged trolls in this group. He likes to think he is not Itchy
and the gang, but his psychiatrist knows better. Without Bill there is only MAT and Roger. Not that
many for one NG really. If we could get Bill to take his medication it would be nice and quiet
around here.
Surf
In article <br7b21$sa3$1@news1.radix.net>, Robert Grumbine
<bobg@radix.net> wrote:
> In article <20031210082303.16022.00000414@mb-m21.aol.com>, Globaldisc <globaldisc@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >I understand the nature of the troll, I just don't understand their "zero'ing in" on running.
>
> You really don't understand troll nature if that's a question still. Hint: You started by saying
> something positive about a troll.
>
> Trolls live on response. If they're ignored, they go away. Many r.r. regulars have been playing
> with the trolls, encouraging them, and saying that some are 'clever' or 'witty'. You may as well
> hang out signs saying 'trolls wanted'.
Whatever you feed grows.
In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
"Robert Grumbine" <bobg@radix.net> wrote in message
> Many r.r. regulars have been playing with the trolls, encouraging them, and saying that some are
> 'clever' or 'witty'. You may as well hang out signs saying 'trolls wanted'.
Very, very true.
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org
If they're ignored, they go away.
___
Disagree, way too simplistic a notion and proposed solution to a counter-culture/movement of the
net.....especially for this ng. Furthermore, many trolls are quite satisfied talking to no one but
themeselves.
IMO the troll activity on this ng is "over the top" and has been for years. I think there's possibly
some dimension or aspect of "running" at work here. For example, running can be a lone endeavor of
solitude. And the behavoir of some of these trolls imo reflects a person that lives a "lone"
existence with little human network/structure connecting them with humanity. I imagine you have to
be disconnected to revel in spewing anger. I just have never seen the type of troll conduct/behavior
I see on this ng and it goes outside the bounds standard "trolling". There's possibly a
connection/attraction of some kind
w/the endeavor of running.
...one reason I brought this up today is because today opened in Geneva is the Global Internet
Summit...or something like that...an International Conference on everything from spam to
standards, etc.
>Bill is responsible for 99% of the alleged trolls in this group. He likes to
think he is not Itchy and the gang, but his psychiatrist knows better. Without Bill there is only
MAT and Roger. Not that many for one NG really. If we could get Bill to take his medication it would
be nice and quiet
>around here.
TBR is quite capable of meaningful contributions (in his own way) when he deems the subject
worthwhile. Sometimes however I wonder whether he needs lithium to control his mood swings.
Skunks are great to watch too, but who wants them around?
"TopCounsel" <topcounsel@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031210123447.14243.00000667@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >Bill is responsible for 99% of the alleged trolls in this group. He likes
to
> think he is not Itchy and the gang, but his psychiatrist knows better.
Without
> Bill there is only MAT and Roger. Not that many for one NG really. If we
could
> get Bill to take his medication it would be nice and quiet
> >around here.
>
> TBR is quite capable of meaningful contributions (in his own way) when he
deems
> the subject worthwhile. Sometimes however I wonder whether he needs
lithium to
> control his mood swings.
In article <20031210100542.16022.00000416@mb-m21.aol.com>, Globaldisc
<globaldisc@aol.com> wrote:
> If they're ignored, they go away.
> ___
>
> Disagree, way too simplistic a notion and proposed solution to a counter-culture/movement of the
> net.....especially for this ng. Furthermore, many trolls are quite satisfied talking to no one but
> themeselves.
>
>
> IMO the troll activity on this ng is "over the top" and has been for years. I think there's
> possibly some dimension or aspect of "running" at work here. For example, running can be a lone
> endeavor of solitude. And the behavoir of some of these trolls imo reflects a person that lives a
> "lone" existence with little human network/structure connecting them with humanity. I imagine you
> have to be disconnected to revel in spewing anger. I just have never seen the type of troll
> conduct/behavior I see on this ng and it goes outside the bounds standard "trolling". There's
> possibly a connection/attraction of some kind
> w/the endeavor of running.
The over the top trolling is about 2 years old. Wonder when a plant is dying all the aphids multiply
as the plant seems to have lost its defenses and strength.
It's the passion of the people on the topic who won't be distracted by those who drop by to distract
in anyway they are able.
Most of the trolling is an attack on the person, demeaning, belittling, marginalizing, or
depersonalizing of the individual. Those people make the choice of being equal opportunity
offenders. The reasons will probably never be known by any of us who've hung around this corner for
the last few years.
It does speak about the individual who is writing and who hides behind various pseudonyms, never to
be honest. It's taking on a personal and playing the part. Some are able to take on various
personas. If you take time to analyze all the intracacies of their postings, you've lost the purpose
of a news group, which usually is in the group's name.
What is of interest to me now, is getting my running booklet out in paper and electronic. I'm
interested in what VIVO does with their Kevlar soled shoes that are to be out in late January.
I'm interested in the number of other writers who are playing with the form and style of running.
I came to rec.running in 1995 or 1996 to have my answers questioned. They continue to be and also
there's a growing number of people who realize that it's not the shoe that's the problem. They also
realize that the injuries are symptoms of something more.
It's an interesting time for those at rec.running who are here to talk about running and not be
distracted by the trolls of many names.
I have no feelings towards trolls, as I don't know the person behind them. I can't praise or
disparage them. All I know is that for the most part, I choose not to respond to them. They do have
the power of one. Any one person can made the difference. There are a agood number of "ones" who
have made a difference in my life and my running here at rec.running. All conversations are with
myself, they just happen to involve other people most of the time. (Susan Scott, Fierce
Conversations)
In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
"Globaldisc" <globaldisc@aol.com> wrote in message I just have never seen the type
> of troll conduct/behavior I see on this ng and it goes outside the bounds standard "trolling".
You should try rec.music.opera - at least none of our regular resident rr trolls is blatantly
homophobic or racist Jonathan
Ozzie Gontang wrote:
> What is of interest to me now, is getting my running booklet out in paper and electronic.
Ha! I always knew that your posts here were thinly disguised book promotion! ;-)
Seriously though, I have to ask if you're bringing out a video/dvd as well. Judging from your posts
here, you have difficulty using one word where you could instead squeeze in one hundred. I don't
think this aids clarity and I'm sure you could illustrate in a few short video clips things that
would require thousands of your words to describe.
I know I'm prejudging things Ozzie but I can't help feeling that your book might be an excellent
cure for insomnia. Your video could be an excellent cure for all running ails. ;-)
Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.
In article <br7h4c$8gu9$1@ID-81538.news.uni-berlin.de>, Tim Downie
<timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Ozzie Gontang wrote:
>
> > What is of interest to me now, is getting my running booklet out in paper and electronic.
>
> Ha! I always knew that your posts here were thinly disguised book promotion! ;-)
>
> Seriously though, I have to ask if you're bringing out a video/dvd as well. Judging from your
> posts here, you have difficulty using one word where you could instead squeeze in one hundred. I
> don't think this aids clarity and I'm sure you could illustrate in a few short video clips things
> that would require thousands of your words to describe.
>
> I know I'm prejudging things Ozzie but I can't help feeling that your book might be an excellent
> cure for insomnia. Your video could be an excellent cure for all running ails. ;-)
>
> Tim
Actually, the booklet is short with cartoon images and terse paragraphs talking about the pictures.
I mentioned years ago that I was sharing my folklore here for free. A good portion of what I wrote
was under the x-no-archive header so that while it could be read by those frequenting rec.running,
it wouldn't be preserved in the archives of google.
I agree 100% with an illustration/video/series of images being much more helpful in
teaching/learning/observing proper running form and style. It's so much easier seeing it on video
rather than attempting to explain it in words. While you are correct about the tendency to use too
many words, there are a good number of you who filtered through the words and created the pictures
from the abundance of words.
Once I get the mock up of the booklet, I'll email it to a number of you for feedback and beta
testing what's being verbalized and imaged.
In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Jonathan Sydenham wrote:
> You should try rec.music.opera - at least none of our regular resident rr trolls is blatantly
> homophobic or racist
Or alt.support.cancer.prostate, we rarely get them there at all (they may be afraid it's
contageous). Parasites need a healthy host to survive. It may be our exceptionally good health
and vigor that attracts them - and if we all left the ng there would have to troll each other.
How boring.
--
Wake
Fountainhead wrote:
> I'm guessing that one reason is that there is little new to discuss where running is concerned.
> All of the intelligent questions have been asked and answered hundreds of times. That means that
> only two types of questions can no be asked: good questions that have been asked over and over, or
> dumb questions. Neither is likely to get a good response.
Then one might ask, why do hang out here?
> If anyone is aware of any other forums where running is discussed, please let me know.
Check out Yahoo groups or specific places like Runner's World
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
Globaldisc wrote:
> If they're ignored, they go away.
> ___
>
> Disagree, way too simplistic a notion and proposed solution to a counter-culture/movement of the
> net.....especially for this ng. Furthermore, many trolls are quite satisfied talking to no one but
> themeselves.
Very true! And changing ID's at each post makes it nearly impossible to killfile so we end up
reading them anyway and they know it. being read is 90% any retort adds a little more fuel.
> IMO the troll activity on this ng is "over the top" and has been for years.
I read at least one other that has more but they don't massage their ID's so my killfile work.
> think there's possibly some dimension or aspect of "running" at work here. For example, running
> can be a lone endeavor of solitude. And the behavoir of some of these trolls imo reflects a person
> that lives a "lone" existence with little human network/structure connecting them with humanity.
What a polite way to say dysfunctional malcontent.
> There's possibly a connection/attraction of some kind
> w/the endeavor of running.
They are dysfunctional runners?
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
Fountainhead wrote:
>
> I'm guessing that one reason is that there is little new to discuss where running is concerned.
Wow - I wish I knew that much about running - more than all the current research going on trying to
find how the body responds physiologically to running, etc. ;)
FWIW, while many topics get discussed repeatedly here, there are many subjects or more detail that I
get from books or monthly newsletters (I generally don't read the primary literature) or other
lists. I suspect what we see on r.r is only the tip of the iceberg of what some of the more
experienced runners could post from their learning (experience and reading) over the years. It's
just that the questions don't lure out that info. Ask higher quality questions, and one will
probably get higher quality answers.
There is much more to running than what is discussed here most of the time. And I do lurk on a
couple other groups.
Just my $.02
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
Are you kidding? For a Usenet group, this place is a utopia. I read some groups that are a hundred
times worse than rec.running.
> > IMO the troll activity on this ng is "over the top" and has been for years.
--
David Nova Scotia, Canada
Ozzie Gontang wrote:
> Actually, the booklet is short with cartoon images and terse paragraphs talking about the
> pictures.
It must have hurt to write like that! I'll believe that when I see it. ;-)
Regards
Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.
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