am i an idiot?
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i need to start running. i'm a blackbelt in taekwondo and i've got a tournament as well as a rank
testing coming up, and my endurance during sparring is not nearly where i'd like it to be... plus
i'd like to lose a couple of pounds before that tournament, just to make me feel better about how i
look in my uniform.
the question is... am i stupid for planning on beginning to run in the middle of december? i started
running during the summer this last year and decided that i hated it and i quit... but i feel very
determined this time. all i'm wondering is... how smart is this of me to do?
any suggestions? i really do appreciate the advice.
- k i t z - money causes AIDS - Acquired InDifference to Suffering syndrome. I know someone who has
it. "i'm a taoist, i'm not supposed to be serious!" http://spinning_plates.tripod.com (http://spinning_plates.tripod.com/)
I'm sure your black belt looks lovely when you're dancing in front of the bedroom mirror, with the
wife's clothes on.
>I'm sure your black belt looks lovely when you're dancing in front of the bedroom mirror, with the
>wife's clothes on.
um. i'm female, stupid.
- k i t z - money causes AIDS - Acquired InDifference to Suffering syndrome. I know someone who has
it. "i'm a taoist, i'm not supposed to be serious!" http://spinning_plates.tripod.com (http://spinning_plates.tripod.com/)
In article <20031213163049.11235.00000725@mb-m11.aol.com>, kitznegari thinks it has wings wrote:
> i need to start running. i'm a blackbelt in taekwondo and i've got a tournament as well as a rank
> testing coming up, and my endurance during sparring is not nearly where i'd like it to be... plus
> i'd like to lose a couple of pounds before that tournament, just to make me feel better about how
> i look in my uniform.
>
> the question is... am i stupid for planning on beginning to run in the middle of december? i
> started running during the summer this last year and decided that i hated it and i quit... but i
> feel very determined this time. all i'm wondering is... how smart is this of me to do?
>
> any suggestions? i really do appreciate the advice.
The key to starting a running program is to go at an easy pace. Most people try to run quickly, and
find themselves out of breath before they've run 400m, and conclude that they "can't run".
I don't see anything wrong with starting in December as opposed to any other month.
I'd recommend picking up a good running book and starting a well thought out program. Bob Glover's
book, "The Runners Handbook" is a good starting point ($12.57 on Amazon).
As for your sparring -- there are (at least) two things that play a substantial role in fatigue --
aerobic conditioning and "economy" -- being able to spar without using too much energy. The latter
only will improve by practising sparring. With practice, you'll be able to do it without tiring
yourself out as much. For example, one thing you could try is sparring with an opponent, and try to
wear your opponent down while avoiding tiring yourself out.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
Running endurance and tae kwon do endurance aren't the same, different muscle groups. Wouldn't it be
better to spar more to get your endurance up for a match?
If it's weight you want to lose, wouldn't a diet change be more beneficial? If the tournament is in
the near future, a new running program isn't going to shed the pounds away right away.
Plus, running might make your legs to sore to get a good kick in...
In article <20031213163049.11235.00000725@mb-m11.aol.com>, kitznegari@aol.com says...
> i need to start running. i'm a blackbelt in taekwondo and i've got a tournament as well as a rank
> testing coming up, and my endurance during sparring is not nearly where i'd like it to be... plus
> i'd like to lose a couple of pounds before that tournament, just to make me feel better about how
> i look in my uniform.
>
> the question is... am i stupid for planning on beginning to run in the middle of december? i
> started running during the summer this last year and decided that i hated it and i quit... but i
> feel very determined this time. all i'm wondering is... how smart is this of me to do?
>
> any suggestions? i really do appreciate the advice.
>
> - k i t z - money causes AIDS - Acquired InDifference to Suffering syndrome. I know someone who
> has it. "i'm a taoist, i'm not supposed to be serious!" http://spinning_plates.tripod.com (http://spinning_plates.tripod.com/)
Keith Harrison <kharrison@cablespeed.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1a4581e07f4d369b989686@news.cablespeed.com:
> Running endurance and tae kwon do endurance aren't the same, different muscle groups. Wouldn't it
> be better to spar more to get your endurance up for a match?
>
> If it's weight you want to lose, wouldn't a diet change be more beneficial? If the tournament is
> in the near future, a new running program isn't going to shed the pounds away right away.
>
> Plus, running might make your legs to sore to get a good kick in...
Very true. Most Asian style martial arts require a high degree of flexibility. Running would have a
negative impact on this.
-Phil
Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
>Re: am i an idiot?
I don't know about you, but Donovan certainly is. Notice how he immediately pickedup on this thread?
>Running endurance and tae kwon do endurance aren't the same, different muscle groups.
my instructor has said that running will help my sparring endurance.
>Wouldn't it be better to spar more to get your endurance up for a match?
i don't choose how often i spar. it's up to the teacher, unfortunately. i would love to take all-
sparring hour long classes, but the lower ranks would get NO benefit from that.
>If it's weight you want to lose, wouldn't a diet change be more beneficial?
my diet is almost completely ideal. exercise is important at this point.
- k i t z - money causes AIDS - Acquired InDifference to Suffering syndrome. I know someone who has
it. "i'm a taoist, i'm not supposed to be serious!" http://spinning_plates.tripod.com (http://spinning_plates.tripod.com/)
Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
Finally, he gives some advice he's qualified to give, how to be an idiot.
> >Very true. Most Asian style martial arts require a high degree of flexibility. Running would have
> >a negative impact on this.
> >
> > -Phil
>
> ?
>
> really?
>
No. Only long distance running may adversely affect your 'arts as it will build more slow-twitch
(endurance) muscle fibres into your legs. Two mile runs are beneficial (for Taekwondo in my
experience). Do them as fast as you like.
Surf
kitznegari@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote in
news:20031214125604.19889.00000176@mb-m01.aol.com:
>>Very true. Most Asian style martial arts require a high degree of flexibility. Running would have
>>a negative impact on this.
>>
>> -Phil
>
> ?
>
> really?
Yes. Really.
kitznegari thinks it has wings wrote:
>>Running endurance and tae kwon do endurance aren't the same, different muscle groups.
>
>
> my instructor has said that running will help my sparring endurance.
>
>
>>Wouldn't it be better to spar more to get your endurance up for a match?
>
>
> i don't choose how often i spar. it's up to the teacher, unfortunately. i would love to take all-
> sparring hour long classes, but the lower ranks would get NO benefit from that.
I've not done martial arts (although had some exposure about 30 yr ago), but as already mentioned
some aspects of endurance can be sport specific. However, I'm guessing you could do an "appropriate"
running program that may benefit you and certainly doesn't have to result in loss of flexibility.
Also, I'm not sure what the concern is about starting running in mid-December. If you didn't like
running in summer, then maybe you'd like it in winter (assuming north of equator in some place lucky
enough to have seasons).
First, it's not obvious to me if your "sparring endurance" issues are neuromuscular or aerobic. But
if your instructor suggests running to help, then I'm guessing aerobic.
Running conditioning usually develops
1. maximal aerobic capacity (which may include some of the others)
2. strengthen heart
3. increase blood volume
4. energy-producing muscle enzymes
5. muscles ability to extract oxygen from blood (not sure if this is where the mitochondria come
in or not)
6. muscle capillarization (above are taken from RRN - see below for citation)
Certain types of running may also improve ability to tolerate and/or clear lactic acid in
specific muscles.
My thoughts (and somebody more knowledgeable may want to correct me) are that #1-3 should
definitely benefit your endurance. #4-6 may help if the muscles used are the same, but not sure if
they have to be used in the same way. That is, if you are using your legs with any activity, you
will increase #4-6.
But to increase your endurance with kicking, for example, you may need neuromuscular endurance in
kicking, that is, kick. Running (using legs) will help aerobic ability to use legs, but not the
neuromuscular endurance. But I could be wrong. It's something I've thought about because I mt bike a
lot and am working out in a cross-training class for 2 hr on Sat morning. While neither one of them
is running, I believe they have helped some aspects of my running, but the class has hindered
others. It's a matter of finding balance between the different activities and understanding what one
is trying to train, that is matching training to goals.
One other thought. I hate indoor training, esp. when we have fresh snow (ok, I cut the classes when
the snow's great). But I have seen enough benefits from it that I view it as a necessary (for now)
evil to improve my running so I can reach those goals. Perhaps looking at running in that way - help
you attain your martial arts goals - will help you get more into running and maybe even enjoy it as
an activity in itself.
#1-6 were taken from
"You need a break this year". Running Research News 19(6):1-9. Aug 2003. (I just happened to be
reading this and was the most convenient list of running benefits.)
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
Phil M. wrote:
> kitznegari@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote in news:20031214125604.19889.00000176@mb-
> m01.aol.com:
>
>
>>>Very true. Most Asian style martial arts require a high degree of flexibility. Running would have
>>>a negative impact on this.
>>>
>>> -Phil
>>
>>?
>>
>>really?
>
>
> Yes. Really.
FWIW, our cross-training class instructor (may be in his 50's) is primarily a gymnast, who I think
has done martial arts, lifting, etc, but has been running for about 3 years (not sure how much). He
can do splits with both legs out horizontally, hands out to toes, and belly button almost on floor.
And he can definitely kick. I don't know how his distance endurance might be, but he out works most
of us during the running part (20-40 min, running, skipping, jumping over mats, etc). I'm well
beyond conversational pace, and he's providing instruction in form as we go. Excessive flexibility
like he has, I think from what I've read, may be a hindrance to running performance, but he is
flexible *and* runs.
Runners may have trouble with flexibility, but if a person is already flexible, I don't think they
necessary lose their flexibility, as long as they maintain the appropriate training.
I think it's a matter of how one blends the various forms of training to achieve one's goals. In
this case, I would think the person could certainly add aerobic activity that would help, assuming
his endurance issue isn't primarily neuromuscular, and I haven't read much on that stuff to know.
And some of that fatigue may be inability to clear lactic acid from those muscles.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
kitznegari@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote in
news:20031214175152.01560.00000541@mb-m20.aol.com:
>>Also, I'm not sure what the concern is about starting running in mid-December. If you didn't like
>>running in summer, then maybe you'd like it in winter (assuming north of equator in some place
>>lucky enough to have seasons).
>
> well i'm just wondering about health reasons... don't most runners stop in the winter, or at least
> for a while? wouldn't running in freezing conditions be bad for your muscles?
If you are wearing the appropriate running clothing, there shouldn't be any harmful effects from
running in the cold.
kitznegari thinks it has wings wrote:
>>Also, I'm not sure what the concern is about starting running in mid-December. If you didn't like
>>running in summer, then maybe you'd like it in winter (assuming north of equator in some place
>>lucky enough to have seasons).
>
>
> well i'm just wondering about health reasons... don't most runners stop in the winter, or at least
> for a while? wouldn't running in freezing conditions be bad for your muscles?
>
> that's why i'm asking. i'm a dope about it and don't know.
Everybody I know that runs, runs all year except maybe for summer field season or if they are xc
skiing in years we have snow. I'm in southcentral Alaska.
The biggest thing to be concerned about is warming up adequately and wearing clothing appropriate to
the conditions.
Some runners may take a couple weeks off for recovery, and that would normally be sometime relative
to their race schedule more so than seasonal changes. Some do that in August. All runners *should*
take some time off for recovery. (The article I cited originally discusses this.)
Many runners have already started building for their spring races. People in warm climates may take
this break in summer after a major spring race since they have fewer races then. I do periodize my
training to account for differences in running conditions with the seasons since I don't race much.
My "down" time is usually Sept.
But winter running is fun if take conditions into consideration. Similarly, summer running must take
conditions into consideration. Icy footing is the main issue in some places. Some types of snow are
fine to run in, but others can be slippery. Just try it. Enjoy :)
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
kitznegari thinks it has wings wrote:
>>Also, I'm not sure what the concern is about starting running in mid-December. If you didn't like
>>running in summer, then maybe you'd like it in winter (assuming north of equator in some place
>>lucky enough to have seasons).
>
>
> well i'm just wondering about health reasons... don't most runners stop in the winter, or at least
> for a while?
Very few stop running completely unless injured or having completed a race that was thoroughly
exhausting. Many of us take breaks but these are simply reductions in miles and/or intensity.
> wouldn't running in freezing conditions be bad for your muscles?
Don't people ski, snowshoe, ice skate in the winter? Why would running be any worse. Personally I
like to use the winter months to build my base, i.e. long slow distance miles. Dress properly and
start off slow to allow your muscles to warm-up and you will be just fine.
> that's why i'm asking. i'm a dope about it and don't know.
It's a valid question and many people will give you reasonable answers while others will offer dumb
replies. Just ignore the dolts.
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
"kitznegari thinks it has wings" <kitznegari@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031213163049.11235.00000725@mb-m11.aol.com...
> the question is... am i stupid for planning on beginning to run in the
middle
> of december? i started running during the summer this last year and
decided
> that i hated it and i quit... but i feel very determined this time. all
i'm
> wondering is... how smart is this of me to do?
>
> any suggestions? i really do appreciate the advice.
Damn! First Igor followed me over here, and now Kitz. 34 bazillion newsgroups out there, and usenet
is still a small, small world.
Anyhow, other people might have more brilliant advice on other aspects, but I feel qualified to
discuss the "I hate running" part. I started running late last spring, and I really hated it at
first. And then I just hated it mostly. And then I could barely tolerate it and still found that the
best part of every run was the part when my feet stopped moving at the end.
Honest to god....take it easy, don't get yourself injured, and keep at it slow and steady, and
eventually you will stop hating it. You will even find parts of it you like, you will find yourself
looking forward to running, and you will be disappointed, not gleeful, when hazardous driving
conditions keep you from your Sunday morning trail run.
One of the tricks, IMHO, is to stick with it long enough to get to the point where it's possible to
do an "easy" 2-3 mile run. Until you get to that point, "easy" and "run" don't really go
together...every step you run is a "hard" one, and the only way to cover any time/distance at all is
to mix the running with some walking. How long it takes to add that "easy 3 miler" to your bag of
tricks will vary.
Other things that help: finding people to run with every now and then (many running clubs offer
"beginner's clinics" that are a good place to start). Finding a time and a place to run that you
actually enjoy. Even if you can't run all the time at that time or in that place, having at least
one "fun" run to look forward to can help you get through the other runs the rest of the week. For
me, it's trail running. I try to get in at least one daytime run on trails each weekend--it makes my
much-less-fun weeknight runs in the dark, on the roads, more bearable, because they are geared
toward allowing me to run the trails better on the weekend. Winter can be a good time for trail running--
the woods are pretty, there's no mosquitos or ticks, and if it's below freezing the sloppy places
are crunchy.
Doug Freese <dfreese@NOBShvc.rr.com> asks: am i an idiot?
Without a doubt.
drlith said:
>Damn! First Igor followed me over here, and now Kitz. 34 bazillion newsgroups out there, and usenet
>is still a small, small world.
do i know you?
>Anyhow, other people might have more brilliant advice on other aspects, but I feel qualified to
>discuss the "I hate running" part. I started running late last spring, and I really hated it at
>first. And then I just hated it mostly. And then I could barely tolerate it and still found that
>the best part of every run was the part when my feet stopped moving at the end.
LOL... that's how i felt last summer ;)
>Honest to god....take it easy, don't get yourself injured, and keep at it slow and steady, and
>eventually you will stop hating it. You will even find parts of it you like, you will find yourself
>looking forward to running, and you will be disappointed, not gleeful, when hazardous driving
>conditions keep you from your Sunday morning trail run.
i started off my martial arts training that way. then it became a lifestyle for me. i got to about
twice as many classes per week as anyone else in the school.
>One of the tricks, IMHO, is to stick with it long enough to get to the point where it's possible to
>do an "easy" 2-3 mile run. Until you get to that point, "easy" and "run" don't really go
>together...every step you run is a "hard" one, and the only way to cover any time/distance at all
>is to mix the running with some walking. How long it takes to add that "easy 3 miler" to your bag
>of tricks will vary.
hmmm...
>Other things that help: finding people to run with every now and then (many running clubs offer
>"beginner's clinics" that are a good place to start).
i didn't know about that... i should definitely check that out :)
>Finding a time and a place to run that you actually enjoy. Even if you can't run all the time at
>that time or in that place, having at least one "fun" run to look forward to can help you get
>through the other runs the rest of the week. For me, it's trail running. I try to get in at least
>one daytime run on trails each weekend--it makes my much-less-fun weeknight runs in the dark, on
>the roads, more bearable, because they are geared toward allowing me to run the trails better on
>the weekend. Winter can be a good time for trail running--the woods are pretty, there's no
>mosquitos or ticks, and if it's below freezing the sloppy places are crunchy.
:)
thanks, drlith :)
- k i t z - pop. six. squish. uhuh. cicero. lipschitz. http://spinning_plates.tripod.com (http://spinning_plates.tripod.com/)
"kitznegari thinks it has wings" <kitznegari@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031215122728.01560.00000568@mb-m20.aol.com...
> drlith said:
>
> >Damn! First Igor followed me over here, and now Kitz. 34 bazillion newsgroups out there, and
> >usenet is still a small, small world.
>
> do i know you?
from alt.support.single-parents, ages ago. Makes me wonder how you will fit a heavy-duty karate
schedule *and* running into your life, but that's for you to worry about, I suppose. Perhaps being
an artiste is less time consuming that being a working stiff? :-) The bean's about -- what? 4 or 5
now? She may be too young still, but in a year or so you can sign her up for every d*mn "junior
ranger" program at the local nature center and then go run on trails for an hour each Saturday while
she learns how to identify owl poo. It's cheap, it's educational, and it's relatively guilt-free.
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