A Big Truck Company Cares About Cyclists
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A thread that apportioned nearly all the blame for cycling fatalities arising from cycling up the
inside of left turning lorries on the lorry drivers. At the same time it ignored the ignorance of
the kamikaze cyclists electing to terminate the propogation of their genes. Never saw much that was
positive about the non-cyclist participants in the bike/lorry collisions.
I came across this tale in one of the mags and again on a website. Looks like a cycling aware health
and safety officer for the company has done something to save cyclists from their own follies:
http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1219
It's not a bad website either.
Vernon in Leeds
>I came across this tale in one of the mags and again on a website.
>Looks like a cycling aware health and safety officer for the company has
>done something to save cyclists from their own follies:
>
>http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1219
>
>It's not a bad website either.
>
>Vernon in Leeds
>
Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the junction?
Richard Webb
vernon.levy wrote in message ...
> Looks like a cycling aware health and safety officer for the company has done something to save
> cyclists from their own follies: http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1219
Just wait till a few days till those lovely NEW clean signs on that lorry become covered in dried
cement mix and bent a few times while 'on-site'.
They wont be so visible and useful then :~(
Wonder if they've thought of that ?
"RJ Webb" <highcruxroad@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ff13604.925984@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
> junction?
This is often caused by poor road positioning by the cyclist - ie hugging the curb.
>
>Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
>junction?
>
Nah, still a source of bewilderment. Can't understand the urgency of the journey that warrants such
behaviour.
Vernon in Leeds
highcruxroad@blueyonder.co.uk (RJ Webb) writes:
> >I came across this tale in one of the mags and again on a website. Looks like a cycling aware
> >health and safety officer for the company has done something to save cyclists from their own
> >follies:
> >
> >http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1219
> >
> >It's not a bad website either.
> >
> >Vernon in Leeds
> >
> Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
> junction?
If you were in the primary riding position they couldn't do this, could they? You do have some
responsibility for your own safety. Ditto with trucks turning left at junctions. The danger arises
when two vehicles are alongside each other in less than two standard lane widths; you should never
allow that to happen.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
[ This .sig intentionally left blank ]
>>Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
>>junction?
>>
>>
>
>This is often caused by poor road positioning by the cyclist - ie hugging the curb.
>
>
My road positioning in my Metro is difficult to describe as kerb hugging yet I routinely have the
above manouvre performed with me as a passive participant on my journey to work every morning.
Cyclists are not the only victims of this silly behaviour.
Vernon safe from the overtake then turn left manouvre for the rest of the week
>
Originally posted by Vernon.Levy
>>Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
>>junction?
>>
>>
>
>This is often caused by poor road positioning by the cyclist - ie hugging the curb.
>
>
My road positioning in my Metro is difficult to describe as kerb hugging yet I routinely have the
above manouvre performed with me as a passive participant on my journey to work every morning.
Cyclists are not the only victims of this silly behaviour.
Vernon safe from the overtake then turn left manouvre for the rest of the week
>
i agree. i never hug the curb-- i'm usually 2-3 feet away, and i get passed and then subjected to a slowdown and turn all the time. this isn't poor cycling habits, it's inconsiderate people.
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:18:08 +0000, "vernon.levy"
<pointless.email@dress.net> wrote:
>http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1219
Kudos to RMC.
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk (http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/)
Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message news:<87u13izjib.fsf@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>...
> If you were in the primary riding position they couldn't do this, could they? You do have some
> responsibility for your own safety.
It reduces the possibility but it still can and does happen regularly. At least it invalidates the
SMIDSY excuse.
--
Dave...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:09:47 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<outlook.bugs@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1219
>
>Kudos to RMC.
>
Indeed. And I've just told 'em so. Sadly, I was forced to include a terrible pun about the dangers
of "mixing it" with HGVs.
James
--
"Sorry mate, I didn't see you" is not a satisfactory excuse.
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:35:07 GMT, Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> highcruxroad@blueyonder.co.uk (RJ Webb) writes:
>
> > Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
> > junction?
>
> If you were in the primary riding position they couldn't do this, could they?
Oh yes they do. They even do it occasionally when I'm in the primary riding position on a tricycle
recumbent.
> vehicles are alongside each other in less than two standard lane widths; you should never allow
> that to happen.
Obviously. How do you suggest preventing this - slaloming across the full width of the road whenever
anyone commences an overtaking manouver and there's a side-road anywhere in the next 200 yards?
Admittedly, I've seen a police land-rover using the technique on a motorway, but I don't fancy my
life expectancy trying it on a bike.
Maybe a cross-bow with a long bodkin bolt mounted transversely on teh rear carrier, with a release
string to the handlebar. Anyone starts to overtake, put a foot of steel through their bodywork (and
poossibly their thigh).
Personally, I think anyone that comes out with trite tosh like "you should never allow a vehicle to
get alongside you" is clearly not cycling on the same planet as I do.
regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
"Adrian Boliston" <adrian@boliston.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bsrimb$l1mn$1@ID-111900.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "RJ Webb" <highcruxroad@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:3ff13604.925984@news-
> text.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning left as you pass the
> > junction?
>
> This is often caused by poor road positioning by the cyclist - ie hugging
the
> curb.
>
>
...but more often, not!!
"Dave Kahn" <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:57db8bde.0312300816.1fd5202@posting.google.com...
> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:<87u13izjib.fsf@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>...
>
> > If you were in the primary riding position they couldn't do this, could they? You do have some
> > responsibility for your own safety.
>
> It reduces the possibility but it still can and does happen regularly. At least it invalidates the
> SMIDSY excuse.
>
> --
> Dave...
...don't think so... judging by the vacant expression I've seen in drivers eyes when they do this,
not only have they not seen me, they probably aren't even aware that they accelerated to get round
me in time to make the left turn without scratching their paintwork or endangering their no-
claims... In fact, this is the one manoeuvre that left me totally dispirited regards cycling earlier
this year. I had it happen several times over a couple of days and was on the verge of
llbebuggeredifI'mlettingmykidsoutontheroadonbikeswiththesestupidbastardsoutt here!!" Luckily, I got
over it and it hasn't happened much since, but it was a very close thing, especially as I want to
make a living out of working in cycling. My riding position is more than assertive, although not
aggressive, I wear fluorescent / reflective gear, use lights and reflectors and a cloak of
invisibility....for some reason, cyclists just do not compute. Dave.
I'm with Simon on this one. If someone is determined to squeeze past you in a car or lorry with
inches to spare, then they will. However, it is possible to reduce the incidence of that happening
by moving to the middle of a traffic lane where it is too narrow for a bike and motor vehicle side
by side. Yet another Dave
--
David Frank
REmove fruit from email
"Ian Smith" <ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnbv3nnr.10q.ian@phlegethon.smithnet...
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:35:07 GMT, Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk>
wrote:
> > highcruxroad@blueyonder.co.uk (RJ Webb) writes:
> >
> > > Any progress on the car drivers that overtake you just before turning
> > > left as you pass the junction?
> >
> > If you were in the primary riding position they couldn't do this,
> > could they?
>
> Oh yes they do. They even do it occasionally when I'm in the primary
> riding position on a tricycle recumbent.
>
> > vehicles are alongside each other in less than two standard lane
> > widths; you should never allow that to happen.
>
> Obviously. How do you suggest preventing this - slaloming across the
> full width of the road whenever anyone commences an overtaking
> manouver and there's a side-road anywhere in the next 200 yards?
> Admittedly, I've seen a police land-rover using the technique on a
> motorway, but I don't fancy my life expectancy trying it on a bike.
>
> Maybe a cross-bow with a long bodkin bolt mounted transversely on teh
> rear carrier, with a release string to the handlebar. Anyone starts
> to overtake, put a foot of steel through their bodywork (and poossibly
> their thigh).
>
> Personally, I think anyone that comes out with trite tosh like "you
> should never allow a vehicle to get alongside you" is clearly not
> cycling on the same planet as I do.
>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
> |\ /| no .sig
> |o o|
> |/ \|
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, David Frank <davidcfrankapple@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm with Simon on this one. If someone is determined to squeeze past you in a car or lorry with
> inches to spare, then they will. However, it is possible to reduce the incidence of that
> happening by moving to the middle of a traffic lane where it is too narrow for a bike and motor
> vehicle side by side.
And what do you do when, having moved to the middle of your lane, the car moves to the middle of the
adjacent lane, gets its front wing alngside you and then moves back to the middle of your lane (ie,
the position you physically occupy)? I'd really like an answer to this. It's not in the least
rhetorical. You and Simon seem to have neglected to address the scenario, while continuing to
suggest that cyclists can prevent it happening.
In my experience what happens is that after the collision the car has more sideways traction and
simply barges you off the road.
I'm still of the opinion that saying a cyclist should prevent a motor vehicle getting alongside
shows little other than a lack of cycling experience.
regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
>>Personally, I think anyone that comes out with trite tosh like "you should never allow a vehicle
>>to get alongside you" is clearly not cycling on the same planet as I do.
>>
>>
>>
Let common sense prevail, no-one with an ounce of common sense would put their lives at risk with
such arrant confrontational nonsense. Blocking the progress of vehicles approaching from the rear is
asking for trouble especially when the 'opposition' has an order of magitude or two's weight
advantage. It's much safer to deal with a prat receding in the distance in front of you than dealing
with the prat approaching from the rear.
Advocates of obstructional behaviour, irrespective of transport mode are a danger to themselves and
other road users.
Ian Smith wrote:
> And what do you do when, having moved to the middle of your lane, the car moves to the middle of
> the adjacent lane, gets its front wing alngside you and then moves back to the middle of your lane
> (ie, the position you physically occupy)? I'd really like an answer to this. It's not in the least
> rhetorical. You and Simon seem to have neglected to address the scenario, while continuing to
> suggest that cyclists can prevent it happening.
lean on the brakes and drop in behind the offender. The concept of one vehile per lane
still applies.
Some times it is good to give a little (and always better to cede distance longitudinally than
laterally from a safety point of view.)
I once had to do this when an artic overtook me and moved back in. Feeling that the back wheels
would be rather uncomfortable should I end up under them I leant on the brakes and just avoided
being either road kill or being taken off by the kerb by a matter of inches (the wheel was a couple
of inches from the kerb, my shoulder not much more away from the truck, my brakes were red hot and
my laundry bill was huge. Had I not braked I would have been an accident.
..d
Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk> writes:
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, David Frank <davidcfrankapple@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm with Simon on this one. If someone is determined to squeeze past you in a car or lorry with
> > inches to spare, then they will. However, it is possible to reduce the incidence of that
> > happening by moving to the middle of a traffic lane where it is too narrow for a bike and motor
> > vehicle side by side.
>
> And what do you do when, having moved to the middle of your lane, the car moves to the middle of
> the adjacent lane, gets its front wing alngside you and then moves back to the middle of your lane
> (ie, the position you physically occupy)?
Like I said before, bang really hard with your fist on the passenger window. It scares seven shades
of **** out of them. If you can't reach the window the wing will do, but not as effective.
> I'm still of the opinion that saying a cyclist should prevent a motor vehicle getting alongside
> shows little other than a lack of cycling
I've only been cycling since 1963; how long have you been doing it? Oh, and, for more than half my
adult life I didn't have a car at all, so all my travelling was by bike (or bike and train).
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.' ;;
<URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html
In that situation, there is really nothing you can do except to avoid being hit by the car - eg move
over, brake or take whatever avoiding action you can. In my experience though, if you ride close to
the kerb when there is only room for one vehicle, you'll spend more time taking the action I
described above than if you occupy the middle of the lane. The driver who wants to get close to you
will do so whether you occupy the lane or hug the kerb. However most drivers will hold back and give
you the space you need.
"Ian Smith" <ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message news:slrnbv84sm.107.ian@phlegethon.smithnet...
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, David Frank <davidcfrankapple@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm with Simon on this one. If someone is determined to squeeze past
you in
> > a car or lorry with inches to spare, then they will. However, it is possible to reduce the
> > incidence of that happening by moving to the
middle
> > of a traffic lane where it is too narrow for a bike and motor vehicle
side
> > by side.
>
> And what do you do when, having moved to the middle of your lane, the car moves to the middle of
> the adjacent lane, gets its front wing alngside you and then moves back to the middle of your lane
> (ie, the position you physically occupy)? I'd really like an answer to this. It's not in the least
> rhetorical. You and Simon seem to have neglected to address the scenario, while continuing to
> suggest that cyclists can prevent it happening.
>
> In my experience what happens is that after the collision the car has more sideways traction and
> simply barges you off the road.
>
> I'm still of the opinion that saying a cyclist should prevent a motor vehicle getting alongside
> shows little other than a lack of cycling experience.
>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
> |\ /| no .sig
> |o o|
> |/ \|
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