View Full Version : Sprint power on trainer vs. road
I have started doing big gear slow cadence work myself and it DOES work, started last year and it definitly increased my aerobic & cruise speed. Look at it this way, if you spin a 39x16 at 100rpm for a mile, then you ride the same mile in a 53x14 at 80rpm, which one do you think will build more muscle strength or puts more strain on the muscle. Theres very little resistance when spinning.
Or ride certain loop for 1 hour in 39x17 at 100rpm, Then ride the same course for an hour in 53x15 at 17-19mph only, dont hammer it. Tell me which workout tired your legs out, try it for real as a test.
I did 53x17 at 17-19mph only, for a season, rode totally aerobic, just let time take its toll. Started with an hour, now I can ride it for 3-4 hours. On the smaller grades i just let the cadence drop a little more, i just rode it, did not let it get to were your fighting the gear or get anywhere close to threshold.
Im a natural sprinter came from bmx, favorite gear to sprint 53x16, or when my cadence is 100-110 can crank out 150rpms, usually get a big jump on the guys starting in 53x14,13. If i am going to spin out i always have the option to then shift to bigger gear. It doesnt take as much muscle to snap a lighter gear.
Have you read the "gyming to improve fitness" thread and all the others on strength? Even if big-gear training did make you stronger, it would not help and would probably harm endurance cycling performance.
Have you read the "gyming to improve fitness" thread and all the others on strength? Even if big-gear training did make you stronger, it would not help and would probably harm endurance cycling performance.
I didnt read gyming to improve fitness, but I will.
Hey your a young guy with a bit of talent...Might want to ease up on those 60mph down hills . Live to fight another day.Do you see my point? I said that stating numbers is useless unless you state the conditions and duration of the sprint. 1100w? for how long? seated, standing, big gear, small gear, uphill, flat? It really does make a big difference.
1100w average for the final 12 seconds of a 200m 'track' sprint is very good. 1100w peak for one second is not very good. But then again, what's your weight?
Just so you know, peak power has very little to do with top speed, especially if you are not givin a leadout. If you want to work on your top speed, I would suggest a good mix sprints. It would be a good idea to do your training with some friends, it will make it a lot more fun and you can push yourself harder.
I would do everything from hill sprints to downhill sprints to small ring sprints, seated sprints, standing starts. Your ultimate goal is raise the average power you can do for a 15-20 second sprint. Don't do too much work on short jumps, it won't help you that much, all though it is nice to have a good jump.
I did this week of training for working on my acceleration, and got improvements with it.
mon- off
tues- 1hr, six 6 second sprints in my 39x21, alternating standing/seated. followed by plyometrics and heavy weights.
wed- 1hr easy
thurs- 1hr, six 6 second sprints in a big gear (two gears harder than I would normally use), alternate standing/seated. followed by a different rep/set scheme with heavy weights on different lifts.
fri- off or easy
sat- set personal bests. no kidding, my jump improved a lot. I was so in tune with my sprint that I could tell imediately if I was hitting a new PB peak wattage during the sprint. After some time dedicating my training to this, it really felt good to just go balls out. My fast twitch muscles were primed well.
Now, I haven't done too much of this training lately, and I can feel I am weaker from the long roadie efforts.
Another thing you can add in once you get into sprint training is some explosive weight lifts, like clean pulls. Do these a few hours before your bike workout. It really primes the nervous system. This is what lead to my best peak numbers this past summer. I felt so damn strong during those first sprints, it was amazing. Too bad it wears off as you fatigue.
I wouldn't worry about doing these 'pre-ride' lifts untill you have been sprint training for at least 3 months.
Also, during this time I did zero endurance work. The only thing 'endurance' I did was being on my bike for an hour or two. All the riding inbetween sprints, I was at like 110bpm.
I wish I had some riding buddies I could train with, no one around here wants to sprint :(
As for form/technique, I personally don't pay much attention to it. During sprints you need to have 100% concentration on killing the pedals. Sprinting requires a lot of aggression. If you are lazy or just not energized you won't outsprint that 10lb dog. I really think the best way to train sprints if with someone who is at least your ability level. If you can't find anyone, just try to keep up with traffic after a red light, works for me! Want to work on kilo power? On a side road, when a car passes, see how long you can keep them in sight ;) yeh that stuff hurts.
As for me, I am going to continue doing my downhill sprints at this time. Check out my videos in the bike cafe forum. 60mph is a lot more fun than 38. :D
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-292701-15-2.html
Horton Hill is sick. Dropped 400ft elevation in less than 30 seconds. :eek:
If that road were straight and smooth, I would have been well into the 60s.
Hey your a young guy with a bit of talent...Might want to ease up on those 60mph down hills . Live to fight another day.Do you see my point? I said that stating numbers is useless unless you state the conditions and duration of the sprint. 1100w? for how long? seated, standing, big gear, small gear, uphill, flat? It really does make a big difference.
1100w average for the final 12 seconds of a 200m 'track' sprint is very good. 1100w peak for one second is not very good. But then again, what's your weight?
Just so you know, peak power has very little to do with top speed, especially if you are not givin a leadout. If you want to work on your top speed, I would suggest a good mix sprints. It would be a good idea to do your training with some friends, it will make it a lot more fun and you can push yourself harder.
I would do everything from hill sprints to downhill sprints to small ring sprints, seated sprints, standing starts. Your ultimate goal is raise the average power you can do for a 15-20 second sprint. Don't do too much work on short jumps, it won't help you that much, all though it is nice to have a good jump.
I did this week of training for working on my acceleration, and got improvements with it.
mon- off
tues- 1hr, six 6 second sprints in my 39x21, alternating standing/seated. followed by plyometrics and heavy weights.
wed- 1hr easy
thurs- 1hr, six 6 second sprints in a big gear (two gears harder than I would normally use), alternate standing/seated. followed by a different rep/set scheme with heavy weights on different lifts.
fri- off or easy
sat- set personal bests. no kidding, my jump improved a lot. I was so in tune with my sprint that I could tell imediately if I was hitting a new PB peak wattage during the sprint. After some time dedicating my training to this, it really felt good to just go balls out. My fast twitch muscles were primed well.
Now, I haven't done too much of this training lately, and I can feel I am weaker from the long roadie efforts.
Another thing you can add in once you get into sprint training is some explosive weight lifts, like clean pulls. Do these a few hours before your bike workout. It really primes the nervous system. This is what lead to my best peak numbers this past summer. I felt so damn strong during those first sprints, it was amazing. Too bad it wears off as you fatigue.
I wouldn't worry about doing these 'pre-ride' lifts untill you have been sprint training for at least 3 months.
Also, during this time I did zero endurance work. The only thing 'endurance' I did was being on my bike for an hour or two. All the riding inbetween sprints, I was at like 110bpm.
I wish I had some riding buddies I could train with, no one around here wants to sprint :(
As for form/technique, I personally don't pay much attention to it. During sprints you need to have 100% concentration on killing the pedals. Sprinting requires a lot of aggression. If you are lazy or just not energized you won't outsprint that 10lb dog. I really think the best way to train sprints if with someone who is at least your ability level. If you can't find anyone, just try to keep up with traffic after a red light, works for me! Want to work on kilo power? On a side road, when a car passes, see how long you can keep them in sight ;) yeh that stuff hurts.
As for me, I am going to continue doing my downhill sprints at this time. Check out my videos in the bike cafe forum. 60mph is a lot more fun than 38. :D
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-292701-15-2.html
Horton Hill is sick. Dropped 400ft elevation in less than 30 seconds. :eek:
If that road were straight and smooth, I would have been well into the 60s.
Thank you. My lovely wife is a Brit. from Manchester. I had contacted a group here alredy, but I am going to listen to what they say first. I look around and see many athletes and guys in the gym trying to be what they are not. Good example would be a skinny ectomorph killing himself in the gym to get big. I would love to know if I have the ability to get the speed I am looking for. Cheers BPBill, feel free to give me a shout -- i've coached world class 200-m and 1-km TT riders,
cheers
ric
I am going to mix in a little big gear sprints and ignore the cadence. I used to powerlift, squat around 600...405x6 no belt or wraps . DL 575 , bench 365. I want to bring that to the pedals. Thats why I am confused why I need that typ of training, but as I said before, it seems like the better sprinters do some training this way. BMX....seen Brian Lopes ??. He pedals so fastI have started doing big gear slow cadence work myself and it DOES work, started last year and it definitly increased my aerobic & cruise speed. Look at it this way, if you spin a 39x16 at 100rpm for a mile, then you ride the same mile in a 53x14 at 80rpm, which one do you think will build more muscle strength or puts more strain on the muscle. Theres very little resistance when spinning.
Or ride certain loop for 1 hour in 39x17 at 100rpm, Then ride the same course for an hour in 53x15 at 17-19mph only, dont hammer it. Tell me which workout tired your legs out, try it for real as a test.
I did 53x17 at 17-19mph only, for a season, rode totally aerobic, just let time take its toll. Started with an hour, now I can ride it for 3-4 hours. On the smaller grades i just let the cadence drop a little more, i just rode it, did not let it get to were your fighting the gear or get anywhere close to threshold.
Im a natural sprinter came from bmx, favorite gear to sprint 53x16, or when my cadence is 100-110 can crank out 150rpms, usually get a big jump on the guys starting in 53x14,13. If i am going to spin out i always have the option to then shift to bigger gear. It doesnt take as much muscle to snap a lighter gear.
Thank you. My lovely wife is a Brit. from Manchester. I had contacted a group here alredy, but I am going to listen to what they say first. I look around and see many athletes and guys in the gym trying to be what they are not. Good example would be a skinny ectomorph killing himself in the gym to get big. I would love to know if I have the ability to get the speed I am looking for. Cheers BP
interestingly, perhaps (?), i'm also from manchester!
make sure the others have worked with sprinters before. it's very different training to endurance riders.
cheers
ric
BMX....seen Brian Lopes ??. He pedals so fast
Yes Im well aware of Lopes, I was racing at the same time he was doing BMX, I think he is a couple years younger. Contacted him 2 years ago because his he was going to be at the Atlanta,GA Nationals.
Anyway, he did a 200m Road Sprint at Redlands Bicycle Classic against all the top road sprinters in the country and got 2nd. Goes to show that sometimes the ability to accelerate real fast is better than the big gear mashers. Heres the article www.navpro.com/news-2000/pr_030700.asp
My opinion is that in crits the higher cadence is better so you can get the quicker acceleration out of the last corner, compared to the guy winding up a 53x12,13. In road races its not as effective since there is a long straight to the finish where the speed is already 30mph or more. I its better to practice both maybe.
I have started doing big gear slow cadence work myself and it DOES work, started last year and it definitly increased my aerobic & cruise speed. Look at it this way, if you spin a 39x16 at 100rpm for a mile, then you ride the same mile in a 53x14 at 80rpm, which one do you think will build more muscle strength or puts more strain on the muscle. Theres very little resistance when spinning.
Or ride certain loop for 1 hour in 39x17 at 100rpm, Then ride the same course for an hour in 53x15 at 17-19mph only, dont hammer it. Tell me which workout tired your legs out, try it for real as a test.
I did 53x17 at 17-19mph only, for a season, rode totally aerobic, just let time take its toll. Started with an hour, now I can ride it for 3-4 hours. On the smaller grades i just let the cadence drop a little more, i just rode it, did not let it get to were your fighting the gear or get anywhere close to threshold.
Im a natural sprinter came from bmx, favorite gear to sprint 53x16, or when my cadence is 100-110 can crank out 150rpms, usually get a big jump on the guys starting in 53x14,13. If i am going to spin out i always have the option to then shift to bigger gear. It doesnt take as much muscle to snap a lighter gear.
Any type of effort that lasts an hour is not going to positively affect sprinting ability. In other words, you are saying that a long time trial will boost leg strength and sprinting ability if done in a big gear? It makes no sense, but if it works for you then ok.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16230977&query_hl=5
Any type of effort that lasts an hour is not going to positively affect sprinting ability. In other words, you are saying that a long time trial will boost leg strength and sprinting ability if done in a big gear? It makes no sense, but if it works for you then ok.
Sorry for the miscommunication on my part. You are right, doing long 1 hour TT type efforts will not make you a stronger sprinter against someone doing pure sprint work.
If you can sprint at 1200watts and your buddy can sprint 900watts you should beat him every time straight up.
“Unless”
“Hypothetically” speaking you you and him are being lead out at 30-35mph for the last 2-3k and you start to go anaerobic (95%) before the actual sprinting and your buddy has not (he’s maybe at threshold) he will most likely beat you every time. You cant sprint much from an anaerobic state as good.
I have experienced this first hand racing. For years when the pace would crank up at the end of a crit I was already at 200-203 HR on the last lap (max is 210) you cant sprint to good when your just about maxed, but now when the pace cranks up on the last lap my HR is about 185-190 and man is there a big difference.
So basically if your some what of a sprinter a higher aerobic cruise speed would help you in a sprint if the other guy is already taxed because of the pace being set.
Try sprinting from 95% of your max, then try sprinting from 80% of your max there should be a huge differance.
Sorry for the miscommunication on my part. You are right, doing long 1 hour TT type efforts will not make you a stronger sprinter against someone doing pure sprint work.
No, what he's saying is that riding around overgeared all the time won't make your legs any stronger or your sprint any better. The Gyming to Improve Power thread explains the theory there.
First question I am going to ask. I may have the chance to visit your country at some point. I am not much of a traveler....dont like panes.....My wife says to say she is from Cheatle??? Cheers BPinterestingly, perhaps (?), i'm also from manchester!
make sure the others have worked with sprinters before. it's very different training to endurance riders.
cheers
ric
I saw an article of a BMX/4 cross aussie(forget his name) that trains with Sean Kelly on the track. The article said he did almost 2000 watts on an ergometer. Yes Im well aware of Lopes, I was racing at the same time he was doing BMX, I think he is a couple years younger. Contacted him 2 years ago because his he was going to be at the Atlanta,GA Nationals.
Anyway, he did a 200m Road Sprint at Redlands Bicycle Classic against all the top road sprinters in the country and got 2nd. Goes to show that sometimes the ability to accelerate real fast is better than the big gear mashers. Heres the article www.navpro.com/news-2000/pr_030700.asp (http://www.navpro.com/news-2000/pr_030700.asp)
Robert 'Bob' Lindstrom, an old school BMXer, can tear up a 200M. I witnessed him almost take out Gideon Massie last year in Frisco. Best 2 out of 3 I've seen in a while.
First question I am going to ask. I may have the chance to visit your country at some point. I am not much of a traveler....dont like panes.....My wife says to say she is from Cheatle??? Cheers BP
Cheadle is not too far from where i used to live in Sale, and then Didsbury. Wow, i've been to neither place in about 10 years!
ric
I saw an article of a BMX/4 cross aussie(forget his name) that trains with Sean Kelly on the track. The article said he did almost 2000 watts on an ergometer.
I believe you thinking of Wade Bootes
No, what he's saying is that riding around overgeared all the time won't make your legs any stronger or your sprint any better. The Gyming to Improve Power thread explains the theory there.
I believe it would make your legs stronger since you will have constant resistace on the muscles for a longer period of time, Think of it climbing a 10 mile climb, lets say 85-90rpm. If you only did 5 miles verses the whole 10 miles, which one would make your legs stonger.
I agree it wont make your sprint faster.
I believe it would make your legs stronger since you will have constant resistace on the muscles for a longer period of time, Think of it climbing a 10 mile climb, lets say 85-90rpm. If you only did 5 miles verses the whole 10 miles, which one would make your legs stonger.
I agree it wont make your sprint faster.
See if you still believe that after reading the other thread.
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by
vBSEO 3.3.0
