View Full Version : Sprint power on trainer vs. road
See if you still believe that after reading the other thread.
Which other thread, Im always interested in input. :rolleyes: Im kinda new at this tread posting thing.
Thanks again to all for your input
Which other thread, Im always interested in input. :rolleyes: Im kinda new at this tread posting thing.
Thanks again to all for your input
Stickied thread "Gyming to Improve Power" in the Cycling Training forum:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133-gyming-to-improve-power.html
Sorry for the miscommunication on my part. You are right, doing long 1 hour TT type efforts will not make you a stronger sprinter against someone doing pure sprint work.
If you can sprint at 1200watts and your buddy can sprint 900watts you should beat him every time straight up.
“Unless”
“Hypothetically” speaking you you and him are being lead out at 30-35mph for the last 2-3k and you start to go anaerobic (95%) before the actual sprinting and your buddy has not (he’s maybe at threshold) he will most likely beat you every time. You cant sprint much from an anaerobic state as good.
I have experienced this first hand racing. For years when the pace would crank up at the end of a crit I was already at 200-203 HR on the last lap (max is 210) you cant sprint to good when your just about maxed, but now when the pace cranks up on the last lap my HR is about 185-190 and man is there a big difference.
So basically if your some what of a sprinter a higher aerobic cruise speed would help you in a sprint if the other guy is already taxed because of the pace being set.
Try sprinting from 95% of your max, then try sprinting from 80% of your max there should be a huge differance.
You're exactly right. My sprint power during the finish of a crit is always around 30% less than what I am capable during training (when rested, aerobic). If only I could put out that power during a race, I would win most any sprint.
You're exactly right. My sprint power during the finish of a crit is always around 30% less than what I am capable during training (when rested, aerobic). If only I could put out that power during a race, I would win most any sprint.
I hear ya brother I believe the key is a higher aerobic speed, sustained power, whatever you want to call it is the Holy Grail like Rapdad said. Its how to get it though?
Just think if we could time trial at 27-28mph (at threshold like the pros) and didnt toast your cookies much in a race, when there holding 30mph on the last lap, we really would have an advantage. I dont think Mcewen or Zable are dipping into their anaerobic reserves when their team is leading them out the last 2-3k. Im working on this specific method as we speak & throughout the winter.
Did you see the HRs some of these guys had this year on the tour de france, 100miles in and going 25-28mph, HR 100,110,120 :eek: No wonder they can do this day in and day out.
I hear ya brother I believe the key is a higher aerobic speed, sustained power, whatever you want to call it is the Holy Grail like Rapdad said. Its how to get it though?
Just think if we could time trial at 27-28mph (at threshold like the pros) and didnt toast your cookies much in a race, when there holding 30mph on the last lap, we really would have an advantage. I dont think Mcewen or Zable are dipping into their anaerobic reserves when their team is leading them out the last 2-3k. Im working on this specific method as we speak & throughout the winter.
Did you see the HRs some of these guys had this year on the tour de france, 100miles in and going 25-28mph, HR 100,110,120 :eek: No wonder they can do this day in and day out.
Not to dimish what those guys do, but in a group that large, it's like being sucked along by a giant vacuum cleaner.
Just think if we could time trial at 27-28mph (at threshold like the pros) and didnt toast your cookies much in a race, when there holding 30mph on the last lap, we really would have an advantage. I dont think Mcewen or Zable are dipping into their anaerobic reserves when their team is leading them out the last 2-3k. Im working on this specific method as we speak & throughout the winter.
Did you see the HRs some of these guys had this year on the tour de france, 100miles in and going 25-28mph, HR 100,110,120 :eek: No wonder they can do this day in and day out.
That's true. Those guys are primarily endurance riders rather than true sprinters. I'd like to see the trackies ride 120 miles and still be fast at the end. :D
That's true. Those guys are primarily endurance riders rather than true sprinters. I'd like to see the trackies ride 120 miles and still be fast at the end. :D
Precisely my point, It doesn’t matter how many watts you can produce, if your already taxed when you need it, your a dead pigeon.
I just did some playing around sprints today, Wind Conditions were 3mph tailwind or calm, flat road.
Here is some interesting numbers to look at, plus the files below.
I generated 1200 watts in either a 39x17 or 39x16 & already starting from 100rpm, max rpm got to 160-170
I would like to see a power meter file posted showing track sprinters
at 220rpm, almost seems impossible, especially seated. I’m not the fastest, or the smartest, but put in the gearing the run and 220rpms and see what the max speed would be. Let me know if anyone found this website to figure it out.
Take a look at my starting speed & rpm, to verify I was in the small ring
1st sprint) started at 100rpm in 39x16=19.3mph, got 30.6mph max, 159rpm and 1172watts
2nd sprint) started at 100rpm in 39x17=18.5mph, got 30.8mph max, 170rpm and 1261watts
All the watts are from the initial torque up to speed, once there you just have to maintain the rpm as you can see the speed and rpm stayed up but power was declining, no more resistance on the pedals. So trackies max watts should also come from the initial burst down the embankment.
I’m not the fastest, or the smartest, but put in the gearing the run and 220rpms and see what the max speed would be. Let me know if anyone found this website to figure it out.
http://analyticcycling.com/GearSpeedCadence_Page.html
Poke around in there some if you get the chance. Lots of excellent tools to play with.
That seems pretty fast. nice!! How heavy are you. I have done similar numbers, but dont have a 39. 42x17 @32 mph. Im shocked the watts are so high I just wish I could feel that same snap in a 90"gear, then I could go 42 not 32... Rick and veloflash pointed out that the numbers are on accelerating too. I think that your mixing up the trackies and the roadie viewpoints here. The track guys dont think about the miles put in prior to the sprint. H ave you seen www.analytical cycling.com Have fun Thanks BPPrecisely my point, It doesn’t matter how many watts you can produce, if your already taxed when you need it, your a dead pigeon.
I just did some playing around sprints today, Wind Conditions were 3mph tailwind or calm, flat road.
Here is some interesting numbers to look at, plus the files below.
I generated 1200 watts in either a 39x17 or 39x16 & already starting from 100rpm, max rpm got to 160-170
I would like to see a power meter file posted showing track sprinters
at 220rpm, almost seems impossible, especially seated. I’m not the fastest, or the smartest, but put in the gearing the run and 220rpms and see what the max speed would be. Let me know if anyone found this website to figure it out.
Take a look at my starting speed & rpm, to verify I was in the small ring
1st sprint) started at 100rpm in 39x16=19.3mph, got 30.6mph max, 159rpm and 1172watts
2nd sprint) started at 100rpm in 39x17=18.5mph, got 30.8mph max, 170rpm and 1261watts
All the watts are from the initial torque up to speed, once there you just have to maintain the rpm as you can see the speed and rpm stayed up but power was declining, no more resistance on the pedals. So trackies max watts should also come from the initial burst down the embankment.
Thats the guy.....I believe you thinking of Wade Bootes
I know we are off subject here, but there is a real nice track in Manchester. Your best guys seem to train there..I really hate to fly, but that would be a good reason to get my ars on a plane. My wife use to be a British Air flt attendant. She thinks I am a big baby. Thanks BP Cheadle is not too far from where i used to live in Sale, and then Didsbury. Wow, i've been to neither place in about 10 years!
ric
I know we are off subject here, but there is a real nice track in Manchester. Your best guys seem to train there..I really hate to fly, but that would be a good reason to get my ars on a plane. My wife use to be a British Air flt attendant. She thinks I am a big baby. Thanks BP
It's a great track. i think i was there for the opening and saw some of the early races there. seems like a lifetime ago! we also have a track in Newport (in Wales, probably 300 miles from Manchester) which is the same spec (but different seating etc). Flying's ok, but obviously on a long haul flight (and maybe even short haul) you need to take precautions as regards DVT. Now, we're really off-topic!
ric
That seems pretty fast. nice!! How heavy are you. I have done similar numbers, but dont have a 39. 42x17 @32 mph. Im shocked the watts are so high I just wish I could feel that same snap in a 90"gear, then I could go 42 not 32... Rick and veloflash pointed out that the numbers are on accelerating too. I think that your mixing up the trackies and the roadie viewpoints here. The track guys dont think about the miles put in prior to the sprint. H ave you seen www.analytical cycling.com Have fun Thanks BP
I’m 5’6” and weigh 157-160lbs :eek:
I wish I could too in a 90+ inch gear, but I realized you cant snap up a 53x14,13, you have to apply a lot of force/power and wind those gears up smoothly. I have practiced also developing those 2 ways to sprint within my club rides, so I can use it in races. When the speeds are 27+mph its going to be a power wind up, when the speeds are below 25mph, there dead pigeons, the high rpm snap gets them all the time. During club rides I can usually determine which one to do but its harder in a race because all the distraction & your adrenalin is flowing, staying relaxed is key & being able to observe what’s going on with 1/2 lap to go is hard. :rolleyes:
If you put in the gearing the track guys run roughly 50x15 and 220rpms, it comes out to a speed of 57.8mph, I think that’s highly unlikely especially seated, they would rip their legs out of the socket doing those rpms in the saddle.
Put you bike in a trainer, take the chain off and have at it, see how high you can spin with no resistance, in the saddle and out. Hey this might be a new for of spin intervals! :D
I have taken the resistance off the trainer and done some free spinning. I have read the track guys do it to teach the legs to fire quick. They usually do it after a gym sesion.(squats etc..). I am not an expert, but I think the popular gear for the elite sprinters is 50x14. I hear its around a 160-170 rpm max.. Thanks BPI’m 5’6” and weigh 157-160lbs :eek:
I wish I could too in a 90+ inch gear, but I realized you cant snap up a 53x14,13, you have to apply a lot of force/power and wind those gears up smoothly. I have practiced also developing those 2 ways to sprint within my club rides, so I can use it in races. When the speeds are 27+mph its going to be a power wind up, when the speeds are below 25mph, there dead pigeons, the high rpm snap gets them all the time. During club rides I can usually determine which one to do but its harder in a race because all the distraction & your adrenalin is flowing, staying relaxed is key & being able to observe what’s going on with 1/2 lap to go is hard. :rolleyes:
If you put in the gearing the track guys run roughly 50x15 and 220rpms, it comes out to a speed of 57.8mph, I think that’s highly unlikely especially seated, they would rip their legs out of the socket doing those rpms in the saddle.
Put you bike in a trainer, take the chain off and have at it, see how high you can spin with no resistance, in the saddle and out. Hey this might be a new for of spin intervals! :D
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