Shoes for Running Indoors

[Rgt833]

I'm an indoor runner and run in-place on a carpeted floor for an hour each night. The shoes I've
used for 15 years (!) finally gave out and I just bought some replacements.

Old shoes: Nikes - the kind that are narrow, nylon and leather uppers, cut low, with a hard, narrow
sole. They were great.

New shoes: Nikes - bulkier, look wider, cut higher, with thicker soles along the full length (not
air-cushioned). Sounds okay on the surface, but 20 minutes into running, my feet feel numb or they
hurt in the ball of my feet/toes. And the shoes just don't "feel" right. It's almost like the
cushioning is too soft...and the shoes feel bulky. Tightening the laces doesn't help. With the old
shoes, I never even felt I was running; now, I feel every step. I've tried these shoes for two weeks
now, so it isn't just a matter of "getting used to them."

BTW, I'm not sure what other runners do, but I run on the balls of my feet. So, most of the impact
is at the front of the shoe. So all the stuff the sales guys was pitching about the backsole
technology doesn't seem to matter for my running style.

Any ideas on why this more modern shoe isn't working for me? Should I be looking for something
specific to support the balls of my feet? Are the old-style shoes still around anymore (I couldn't
find any in the store)? And, I'm more interested in general advice than in brand names, unless
that's particularly relevant.

Thanks.

[Swstudio]

"rgt833" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> I'm an indoor runner and run in-place on a carpeted floor for an hour each night.<...> BTW, I'm
> not sure what other runners do, but I run on the balls of my feet.

It would be impossible (or EXTREMELY uncomfortable) to run in place any other way than on the balls
of your feet... you have no choice.

Now, you're going to get a bunch of people telling you to not buy Nike, ignoring the fact that you
wore a pair for 15 years, quite happily. Smart people know that shoe brands are a personal choice
and no brand is bad for everyone.

However, shoes have changed a great deal in 15 years, and you may find all the brands now have
similar attributes that you don't like... they all now generally tend to (in my opinion) have too
much cushioning and the heels are WAY too high.

It sounds like you *may* like a similar shoe as I do . have you tried looking into a pair of 'racing
flats' as regular trainers? I have gone this route successfully for a couple years now, as have
others on this board (Doug Freese, for one). They are somewhat similar to what a "normal" running
shoe was like years ago.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

[Globaldisc]

David (in Hamilton, ON).

David, I sense you're responding to a troll, way to many points mentioned seemingly designed to
conjure up stuff. Moving right along...noting where you live and seeing you say you run exclusively
in flats, which flat (s) do you use?

I'm curious as to how you negotiate (so to speak) winter training and exclusive flat wearing /
use...especially in the context of where you live....a very cold, icy, snowy region of the world.

10K and under I wear exclusively flats, NB 150s. However...they offer little to no traction for
anything other than an arrid surface and I almost broke my neck simply trotting once on icy/snowy
road surface in NB 150s. And if I wear socks w/NB 150s (I usually don't), the only thing I could
possibly wear would be a pair of coolmax socks....nothing heavier....and in winter training...you
usually want something heavier in the sock department than a standard pair of coolmax. Again, we're
talking about training when it's 5 degrees and the like.

I often wear Gel Race 5 flats too....however w/their exteme ventilation/mesh material
construction....they offer little to no insulation from the cold air. Couple this with the fact that
most all flats are extremely thin compared to light weight trainers, stability, and cushion shoes.
They almost seem IMO to be designed for the thickness of a coolmax sock....NOT a thicker winter
running sock.

So what you said strikes my curiosity when you say you run exclusively in flats and knowing where
you live/train.

I think you're wrong about Doug too...not sure....I think he wears light weight trainers...for
training...not exclusively flats. There is a big big difference!

I know of no flat that offers any measure of traction for training in your part of the country on
what the roads and trails can often be like. How do you do it? Also I know of no flat that
accomodates a wool sock, a warm winter sock....anything beyond a coolmax sock. What sock do you use
when it's 0 degrees outside and you're running in these flats? I am really curious on how you pull
this off without freezing your feet (no pun w/doug. F.) and slipping and falling as you're striking.

Frozen roads?...Snow?...Ice?....for my road training...and even racing....(but again, on road, not
trail)....I have to turn to a trail running shoe. Why? The tread is preferred for the road surface
than any other type of shoe....I have a better shot of traction and gripping w/a trail shoe on a
icy, snowy, slushing road than a road running shoe. Also, that trail shoe well accomodates a thicker
sock than a flat will.

Flats are flimsy, minimal traction, poor insulators...they simply are not made to do what you must
be doing with them....and I am curious as to how you do it up there in the Great White North.

I would think if I was up in your neck of the woods....flats in the winter would be almost asking to
slip and fall.....trail shoes?...heck...I might have to go all out for a Merrell or Solomon trail
running shoe or the like.

How do you do it?

[Rgt833]

"SwStudio" <shhhh_secrets@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It sounds like you *may* like a similar shoe as I do . have you tried looking into a pair of
> 'racing flats' as regular trainers? I have gone this route successfully for a couple years now, as
> have others on this board (Doug Freese, for one). They are somewhat similar to what a "normal"
> running shoe was like years ago.

Sounds interesting. I'll do a google on "racing flats" and see what I come up with.

[Rgt833]

globaldisc@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote:

> David, I sense you're responding to a troll, way to many points mentioned seemingly designed to
> conjure up stuff. Moving right along...noting where you live and seeing you say you run
> exclusively in flats, which flat (s) do you use?

No, I'm not a troll...just someone who has run a good part of my life, but never kept up on the
technology. And, as an indoor runner, my needs have been relatively simple. So this bad shoe-buying
experience was totally unexpected.

[Swstudio]

"Globaldisc" <globaldisc@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> noting where you live and seeing you say you run exclusively in flats, which flat (s) do you use?

I like the NB rc2xx series (called NB rc240 now, last year they were NB rc230, etc) I used to train
in the Adidas Cubato, but they wear out a lot faster. The NB shoe is a little beefier in the right
places, not the wrong ones.

> I'm curious as to how you negotiate (so to speak) winter training and
exclusive
> flat wearing / use...especially in the context of where you live....a very cold, icy, snowy region
> of the world.

It sometimes feels like I live in a "very cold, icy, snowy region of the world", but believe it or
not, Southern Ontario isn't all igloos and dogsleds. ;) We have a Spring, Summer, and Fall as well.
It gets really hot and muggy here in the summer, just like NYC. Snow isn't a permanent thing on the
ground in Winter at all. If there's ice on the roads, I just wait a few hous for the salters to
come. Surely you have salt/sand applied to your city streets when needed, as well? I may have to
only run on main roads, but it's better than nothing!

> 10K and under I wear exclusively flats, NB 150s. However...they offer
little
> to no traction for anything other than an arrid surface and I almost broke
my
> neck simply trotting once on icy/snowy road surface in NB 150s.

NB150's are fairly extreme flats. I have a couple pairs. I wouldn't want to race more than a 8k
with them.

> And if I wear socks w/NB 150s (I usually don't), the only thing I could possibly wear
would
> be a pair of coolmax socks....nothing heavier....and in winter
training...you
> usually want something heavier in the sock department than a standard pair
of
> coolmax. Again, we're talking about training when it's 5 degrees and the
like.

My feet have never gotten cold running in the winter. they are too busy moving/working to get cold!
Now, my hands are a different story.

> I often wear Gel Race 5 flats too....however w/their exteme
ventilation/mesh
> material construction....they offer little to no insulation from the cold
air.

Those are good flats. I've used them before.

> I think you're wrong about Doug too...not sure....I think he wears light
weight
> trainers...for training...not exclusively flats.

Well, I've been a regular here since mid-2000, and I recall having many conversations with him
about the shoe brand and model we both use(d) for a log time.This topic has come up often over the
years, and we've both been regular commenters about it. I don't remember him announcing a move to
a different type of shoe - I oculd be wrong.. Google should have some archived stuff from before
you arrived.

> ...There is a big big difference!

Global, I know the difference between flats and lightweight trainers. I appreciate the gesture,
though! If I ever need some help with refreshing my memory on the different shoe types, I promise
you'll be the first one I think of asking. :)

> I know of no flat that offers any measure of traction for training in your
part
> of the country on what the roads and trails can often be like. How do you
do
> it? Also I know of no flat that accomodates a wool sock, a warm winter sock....anything beyond a
> coolmax sock. What sock do you use when it's 0 degrees outside and you're running in these flats?
> I am really curious on
how
> you pull this off without freezing your feet (no pun w/doug. F.) and
slipping
> and falling as you're striking.

Again, my feet don't get cold when I run.... ever. I wear regular run-of-the-mill coolmax socks all
year round. I'm glad I don't have this cold feet problem! As far as ice... re: my comments about
waiting for the plows/salters/sanders to do their thing.

>> and I am curious as to how you do it up there in the Great White North.

Well, during the months when the sun doesn't rise it gets a little cold, but I've learned to
accept it. The road to the nearest town is too snowy and undriveable by late October, so I often
train on that. I like the solitude. The dogs come along with me too, if we haven't had to sled
anywhere that day. :)

... okay, I'm being a little silly here - but the real truth is that we generally get our first
snow around Christmas, and for the next 8 - 10 weeks there is snow/ice on the road less than 50% of
the time... i.e. about 30-odd days. It's really not many, especially when you look ahead at
forecasts and be flexible about when the rest day(s) is(are) that week. I am probably incovenienced
by snow or ice 20 times a year. Those are the days I simply run in the salty briny slush on the
roads and deal with it.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

[Rgt833]

rgt833 wrote:

> BTW, I'm not sure what other runners do, but I run on the balls of my feet. So, most of the impact
> is at the front of the shoe. So all the stuff the sales guys was pitching about the backsole
> technology doesn't seem to matter for my running style.

I think I zeroed in on the problem. The sole of my new shoes doesn't bend at the ball of my feet.
Whereas my old shoes bend with my feet in the fore sole area. I'm guessing they're using materials
today in the sole that are stiffer and less flexible. Will the stiffness eventually go away with
use, or should I be looking for a more flexible type of material for the sole? If so, what would
that be? Thanks.