can you recommend good cold weather running shirt
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Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running shirt. I'm debating
getting under armour cold gear or perhaps some other brand. Opinions welcomed, hopefully based upon
your personal experience.
thanks, eric
eric@egypt.net (eric) wrote in
news:32868711.0401170954.153551e@posting.google.com:
> Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running shirt. I'm
> debating getting under armour cold gear or perhaps some other brand. Opinions welcomed, hopefully
> based upon your personal experience.
>
> thanks, eric
>
How cold? I run in Atlanta where my winter runs are usually in the 30 - 40F range. I like Insport's
Thermalayer Turtle. This is usualy good enough for me without a base layer, jacket or vest. If it
gets in the 20s, I'll add a vest. If it gets in the teens (couple of times a year), I'll add a
polypro base layer.
-Phil
here is what I use up here in Alaska
30F-40F Patagonia lightweight shirt with a Pearl Izumi wind breaker 15F-30F Patagonia Short sleeve
shirt (lightweight), then a Patagonia mid weight long sleeve shirt, covered with my wind breaker.
0F- 15F See 15F-30F but add a polar fleece vest under the wind breaker, plus add a bavalacava (sp)
Below 0F add another layer of mid weight and drop the light weight shirts.
The key is to dress in layers, and to wear a good hat. You maybe cold for the first 5 minutes then
you warm up to a nice temp. If you are also looking for a good pair of pants check out the Sporthill
XC Pant Zone 3 (I run in just those at -25F and at 40F)
Mark Strabel "eric" <eric@egypt.net> wrote in message
news:32868711.0401170954.153551e@posting.google.com...
> Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running shirt. I'm
> debating getting under armour cold gear or perhaps some other brand. Opinions welcomed, hopefully
> based upon your personal experience.
>
> thanks, eric
In article <32868711.0401170954.153551e@posting.google.com>, eric wrote:
> Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running shirt. I'm
> debating getting under armour cold gear
NO!!!! Don't do it !!!
> or perhaps some other brand. Opinions welcomed, hopefully based upon your personal experience.
Read the reviews:
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/winter_reviews/
Click on "warm running tops".
You should be able to get good quality gear from brands like HIND, Insport, Sugoi, SportHill, etc
cheaper than UnderArmour cr*p from the websites listed.
There are also a number of alternative routes one can go, that may be cheaper. Read what Globaldisc
and Dot had to say for example.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
eric@egypt.net (eric) wrote in message news:<32868711.0401170954.153551e@posting.google.com>...
> Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running ****.
Any kind that's still warm will provide good insulation as long as it isn't the kind with nuts in it
(that kind chaffs)
"Phil M." <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9473885A4C109seilogramp@216.77.188.18>...
> eric@egypt.net (eric) wrote in news:32868711.0401170954.153551e@posting.google.com:
>
> > Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running shirt. I'm
> > debating getting under armour cold gear or perhaps some other brand. Opinions welcomed,
> > hopefully based upon your personal experience.
> >
> > thanks, eric
> >
>
> How cold? I run in Atlanta where my winter runs are usually in the 30 - 40F range. I like
> Insport's Thermalayer Turtle. This is usualy good enough for me without a base layer, jacket or
> vest. If it gets in the 20s, I'll add a vest. If it gets in the teens (couple of times a year),
> I'll add a polypro base layer.
>
> -Phil
i'm jealous. Albany, NY: 15 below the other day. not too bad with vasoline....
Seems most of the cold weather clothing discussion so far has been about the upper body.
What about the lower body and hands?
On most of my runs this winter (mid Michigan area) I've gotten by with Hind Munich running pants and
basic Hanes underwear. When it's windy, I put InSport tights over the underwear (beneath the Hind).
My only real problem has been the hands. I've tried the garden gloves (which the wind rips through)
to ski gloves (which get too sweaty). Any recommendations on gloves/mittens?
In article <slrnc0j004.hn7.abuse@panix2.panix.com>, abuse@aol.com says...
> In article <32868711.0401170954.153551e@posting.google.com>, eric wrote:
> > Hi folks, I'd like to know what you people think is a good cold weather running shirt. I'm
> > debating getting under armour cold gear
>
> NO!!!! Don't do it !!!
>
> > or perhaps some other brand. Opinions welcomed, hopefully based upon your personal experience.
>
> Read the reviews:
>
> http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/running/winter_reviews/
>
> Click on "warm running tops".
>
> You should be able to get good quality gear from brands like HIND, Insport, Sugoi, SportHill, etc
> cheaper than UnderArmour cr*p from the websites listed.
>
> There are also a number of alternative routes one can go, that may be cheaper. Read what
> Globaldisc and Dot had to say for example.
>
> Cheers,
In article <MPG.1a74ff17620b8009989689@news.cablespeed.com>, Keith Harrison wrote:
> Seems most of the cold weather clothing discussion so far has been about the upper body.
>
> What about the lower body and hands?
On my review site, I mention:
lower body: tights or lightweight running pants (Sugoi Travel Pants) with windproof boxers
underneath (gotta protect the goods!). If it's in single digits, I prefer the tights. It never gets
below 0F here.
> On most of my runs this winter (mid Michigan area) I've gotten by with Hind Munich running
> pants and basic Hanes underwear. When it's windy, I put InSport tights over the underwear
> (beneath the Hind).
That's quite a lot warmer than what I'd wear. But having a good wind boxer probably reduces the need
for heavy pants.
> My only real problem has been the hands. I've tried the garden gloves (which the wind rips
> through) to ski gloves (which get too sweaty). Any
I use typical running gloves. If it's cold, I put another layer of gloves over it.
If I was buyng my gloves from scratch, I'd get SportHill 3sp mittens, and some lightweight gloves
(HIND or SportHill)
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
I use a sweatshirt with "EAT MORE POSSUM" printed on it.
"Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
> It never gets below 0F here.
... and you're reviewing cold-weather gear? ;)
Seriously, I find the days when I have to think about what to wear are only when it's below 0F, or
that tricky area of around 35F to 45F when windspeed/dampness dictates whether I wear a long sleeved
or short sleeved shirt , etc.
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org
In article <XiSOb.1434$NV6.1358@read1.cgocable.net>, SwStudio wrote:
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
>> It never gets below 0F here.
>
>
> ... and you're reviewing cold-weather gear? ;)
You're welcome to submit a few of your own. You're right, it's a bit of a problem. For example, I
can't really review the subzero tights you use, since it just never gets cold enough for that sort
of insulation (even for me)
> Seriously, I find the days when I have to think about what to wear are only when it's below 0F, or
> that tricky area of around 35F to 45F when windspeed/dampness dictates whether I wear a long
> sleeved or short sleeved shirt , etc.
I think generally speaking, the faster you run, the less you need to wear (probably because speed is
a good indicator of heat per unit body mass), and you're one of the faster runners in this forum.
Having to think or not thinking about what to wear comes with experience. I think people who live in
areas as cold as you tend to learn quickly, the easy way, or the hard way.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
"Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
> In article <XiSOb.1434$NV6.1358@read1.cgocable.net>, SwStudio wrote:
> > "Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> It never gets below 0F here.
> >
> >
> > ... and you're reviewing cold-weather gear? ;)
>
> You're welcome to submit a few of your own. You're right, it's a bit of a problem. For example, I
> can't really review the subzero tights you use,
since
> it just never gets cold enough for that sort of insulation (even for me)
MY comment way mostly in jest - you're doing a great job with it. :) You are correct that I have a
pair of subzero tights (Sugoi) which I use in the really cold stuff. The main difference is thicker
front padding. The backs of them are the same as regular issue, I guess to continue to allow
ventilation even though it's cold.
>
> > Seriously, I find the days when I have to think about what to wear are only when it's below 0F,
> > or that tricky area of around 35F to 45F when windspeed/dampness dictates whether I wear a long
> > sleeved or short sleeved shirt , etc.
>
> I think generally speaking, the faster you run, the less you need to wear (probably because speed
> is a good indicator of heat per unit body mass),
and
> you're one of the faster runners in this forum.
But faster runners are generally really thin and have less body fat to keep them warm! ;)
>
> Having to think or not thinking about what to wear comes with experience.
I
> think people who live in areas as cold as you tend to learn quickly, the
easy
> way, or the hard way.
You got that right. I think temperature doesn't affect people as much as humidity levels, though
(unless it's extreme temps). For instance, a damp day of 40F will chill me a lot more than a cold
dry January run in 0F weather.
I think this is an issue that people don't discuss in the winter as much as summer, but they should.
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org
In article <1sVOb.7$dY3.1362@read2.cgocable.net>, SwStudio wrote:
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
>> In article <XiSOb.1434$NV6.1358@read1.cgocable.net>, SwStudio wrote:
>> > "Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >> It never gets below 0F here.
>> >
>> >
>> > ... and you're reviewing cold-weather gear? ;)
>>
>> You're welcome to submit a few of your own. You're right, it's a bit of a problem. For example, I
>> can't really review the subzero tights you use,
> since
>> it just never gets cold enough for that sort of insulation (even for me)
>
> MY comment way mostly in jest -
Fair enough. Suspected so.
> you're doing a great job with it. :) You are correct that I have a pair of subzero tights
> (Sugoi) which I use in the really cold stuff. The main difference is thicker front padding. The
> backs of them are the same as regular issue, I guess to continue to allow ventilation even
> though it's cold.
I have a number of items from Sugoi, and without exception, I'm fairly impressed with the apparent
thoughtfullness behind their construction. Same goes for their items I've seen on the shelves.
The idea of having heavier material at the front is a common design idiom used in a number of items
(usually vests and windproof tops) and a very succesful one IMO.
>> I think generally speaking, the faster you run, the less you need to wear (probably because
>> speed is a good indicator of heat per unit body mass), and you're one of the faster runners in
>> this forum.
>
> But faster runners are generally really thin and have less body fat to keep them warm! ;)
One would think this would be a factor. There are two aspects to it: insulation (from fat) and
girths. The volume/surface area ratio is (locally) linear in a given girth, so people with thinner
girths lose more heat.
In practice, I've found body fat not to be that much of an issue (I went from roughly normal body
fat 1 year ago to very low body fat now) in that it's more than compensated for by my
improvements in speed.
Of course, standing around before a cold weather race in clothes that are comfortable for racing is
much worse if you're lean.
> You got that right. I think temperature doesn't affect people as much as humidity levels, though
> (unless it's extreme temps). For
That's interesting -- I'll pay more attention to this (I'd ignored it up till now).
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
SwStudio wrote: I think temperature doesn't affect people as
> much as humidity levels, though (unless it's extreme temps). For instance, a damp day of 40F will
> chill me a lot more than a cold dry January run in 0F weather.
Right. Fairbanks folks (-20F to -40F much of normal winter, but dry) claim they can't stand
southcentral "cold" because of humidity (usually around +20F, but recently near -20F, but more
humid, although I'm not sure how "humid" 87% humidity is when it's -20F.).
I know Bob G. prefers to think in terms of dew point rather than humidity for hot weather, and I
suspect that may be the same for cooler temperatures, but maybe not.
But, yea, *dry* cold is much better than wet cold.
>
> I think this is an issue that people don't discuss in the winter as much as summer, but
> they should.
Actually, I think there's a lot of things that never get discussed here about cold weather running
but probably should ;) Cold weather hydration seems to be largely overlooked although there is a
small comment in the FAQ's. I've been doing some homework on cold weather (+10F and colder)
activities (looking for explanations of observations) plus figured out a few more data points over
the last couple weeks owing to some weather variations. Someday when I get some of this at least
partially digested, I'll toss it out and maybe somebody like Josh can provide more current (or
accurate? if need be) information.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
Keith Harrison <kharrison@cablespeed.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1a74ff17620b8009989689@news.cablespeed.com>...
> My only real problem has been the hands. I've tried the garden gloves (which the wind rips
> through) to ski gloves (which get too sweaty). Any recommendations on gloves/mittens?
I have the similar problem with XC ski gloves on all but the coldest and windiest days. If you´re
otherwise fine, you could try those tiny "Magic Strrretch"-gloves: your hands don´t get wet
which´ll, so to speak, give the gloves a wind-proof quality.
In those harsh conditions any old loose mitten worn on top of the gloves should work fine.
Anders
Anders Lustig wrote:
> In those harsh conditions any old loose mitten worn on top of the gloves should work fine.
I have some nameless pairs of mittens that showed up in my Xmas stocking over the years. One pair is
a little heavy while the other is real thick and would almost trust them in Alaska with Dot. They
keep my hands toasty almost to the point where my hands sweat. Since the air never gets to the my
sweaty hands I haven't the remotest concern being overly warm.
I'm sure hand warmth is a personal tolerance but mittens make so much more sense for warmth than
gloves. I know, men wearing mittens is so un-macho. ;)
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
Keith Harrison wrote:
>
> My only real problem has been the hands. I've tried the garden gloves (which the wind rips
> through) to ski gloves (which get too sweaty). Any recommendations on gloves/mittens?
Do you really mean you tried everything from garden gloves "to" ski gloves? or do you mean you tried
a pair of garden gloves "and" a pair of ski gloves (different times)?
If you truly tried the full gamut, and went from cold to sweaty, something in between should
have worked.
I know that appropriate mittens for running are getting hard to find, at least up here they are. Try
looking in the cheapo outdoor stores or hardware stores - not the stylish crap. Something along the
Wells Lamont line. I think the brand on one of my good pairs is "Hot Fingers" (but beware if you do
a search on that - porn, as I found out accidentally a year ago). If you look hard enough, you
should be able to find a mitten with the right amount of insulation and windshell protection for you
for the weather you're running in. Mittens conserve the heat from your fingers, and most of the
light weight mittens can be used almost like gloves (at least I can).
I've got an assortment of mittens that I've been through in the last few days searching for the
right one for running at -20F that kept my hands warm but not too sweaty. My usual ones are more
breathable and the insulation is starting to go and I was getting cold hands in subzero F temps. The
ones I use in windstorms have a vapor barrier in them and my hands sweat most of the time, but the
duration of my runs in those conditions, I was happy to have warm sweaty hands rather than
frostbitten hands - and it did stop the heat loss through the hands, so double benefits. But
yesterday, I tried the nylon covered ones with insulation still in tact, and they were "just right".
But I'll bet you'll find similar sequences in gloves if you expand your search. But keep in mind,
you'll be wearing more weight per warmth than if with mittens - and not sure how that might affect
your times ;) (sorry, just a pun based on another thread)
YMMV.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
In article <DXdPb.74559$6y6.1510542@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:
> I know that appropriate mittens for running are getting hard to find, at least up here they are.
Very few stores seem to carry mitts that are appropriate for running. *Some* of the running stores
do (but not all).
It seems the outdoor online stores (e.g. campmor, altrec) have appropriate looking mitts --
polartec 300 or similar fabric for reasonable prices. Campmor have wool for people who like that
sort of thing.
The heavy duty "ski glove" style mitts that are widely available should be avoided as they are way
too heavy/warm (at least for most people).
> I've got an assortment of mittens that I've been through in the last few days searching for the
> right one for running at -20F that kept my hands warm but not too sweaty.
Like you say, you will still get insulation even if you sweat (because you won't sweat enough to
soak a decent pair of polartec/windstopper/wool mitts badly enough to substantially affect
conductivity)
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> In article <DXdPb.74559$6y6.1510542@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:
>
>
>>I know that appropriate mittens for running are getting hard to find, at least up here they are.
>
>
> Very few stores seem to carry mitts that are appropriate for running. *Some* of the running stores
> do (but not all).
>
> It seems the outdoor online stores (e.g. campmor, altrec) have appropriate looking mitts --
> polartec 300 or similar fabric for reasonable prices. Campmor have wool for people who like that
> sort of thing.
The fleece ones are probably too breathable for a cold weather mitten when doing activities. I've
got a pair and can't remember the last time I used them. I'm not sure what the outer shell is on the
mittens I usually use, but it's resistant enough for normal use but not in those 50mph winds a
couple weeks ago.
>
> The heavy duty "ski glove" style mitts that are widely available should be avoided as they are way
> too heavy/warm (at least for most people).
Right, that's why I said to look in the cheapo stores or army-navy type places. Adult versions of
childrens snow mittens. My hands are small enough that I can almost fit in a large childrens mitten.
You need to look, but they're there. And even in stores that carry them, they've probably less than
10% of what they have.
>
>
>>I've got an assortment of mittens that I've been through in the last few days searching for the
>>right one for running at -20F that kept my hands warm but not too sweaty.
>
>
> Like you say, you will still get insulation even if you sweat (because you won't sweat enough to
> soak a decent pair of polartec/windstopper/wool mitts badly enough to substantially affect
> conductivity)
My sweating occurred in waterproof mittens. Yes, truly waterproof. Their tag indicated such, but I
didn't believe them until my hands started sweating one day. My hands *never* sweat noticeably. I
dumped so water on them when I got home and they really seemed water resistant at least, so I filled
them with water in the sink and they didn't leak a drop :) Their outside is a fleece though.
I'm going to pick up some windstopper mittens the next time I see them on sale, but the wool and
polartec need shells to go with them, at least up here except in the warmer temperatures.
I'm not sure if the issue is conductivity or evaporation. This was the principle behind the vapor
barrier approach to keeping warm - keep it from evaporating. This is one of the things I'm doing
some homework on now.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
In article <9fgPb.746$J72.24018@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>> In article <DXdPb.74559$6y6.1510542@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I know that appropriate mittens for running are getting hard to find, at least up here they are.
>>
>>
>> Very few stores seem to carry mitts that are appropriate for running. *Some* of the running
>> stores do (but not all).
>>
>> It seems the outdoor online stores (e.g. campmor, altrec) have appropriate looking mitts --
>> polartec 300 or similar fabric for reasonable prices. Campmor have wool for people who like that
>> sort of thing.
>
> The fleece ones are probably too breathable for a cold weather mitten when doing activities.
Here I cite the "law of individual variation". Polartec 200-weight *gloves* are not only adequate,
but quite warm for me, down to about 20 degrees in 20mph winds. The only thing I'd change about my
glove collection is to add some "almost" windproof lightweight (SportHill 3sp or Sugoi WindHibitor)
mitts to that. Note that I rarely deal with more than about 25mph wind.
> Right, that's why I said to look in the cheapo stores or army-navy type places. Adult versions of
> childrens snow mittens. My hands are small
I've looked in the "cheapo stores", they have a lot of great mitts in kids sizes (-; Never looked in
"Army type" places, I suppose I should try that.
BTW, I did venture into the "outdoor" section of the local "big" sporting goods store. This is a
pretty solid store all-round (the running section for example has several different sorts of flats,
and all the major brands)
Anyway, I was pretty impressed by some of the stuff from those brands ... Mountain Hardware, Marmot
and ArcTeryx to name a few. Then it occurred to me that nearly all of that stuff is too heavy for me
to run in. But it is beautiful nonetheless. BTW, the more high-end Pearl Izumi stuff is in that
section of the store. Their jacket, the one with the drawstring hood that retails at $160 (-; was on
sale for $100-.
> I'm going to pick up some windstopper mittens the next time I see them on sale, i
I saw a lot of windstopper gear in those 3 brands I mentioned -- nice but expensive. Most of the
"windstopper fleece" were also very heavy looking (still nice, but heavy for me), the "NS2" stuff
looks nice though. I may pick some up if I can get it cheap.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
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