View Full Version : Tread on Asics Gel Kayano IX
Tread on Asics Gel Kayano IX
Dumb question I know, but what is the reason for the two-toned treads on the Gel Kayanos? Not the
gel per se - but the grey tread near the front of the shoe seems more rigid than the black tread
everywhere else. Is there a technical reason for that? Thanks.
i would like to think with water palce ment but the is not ture ,,,, BTW how do you like them ? i
was thnking about getting a pair. poldzilla
rgt833 wrote:
>
> Dumb question I know, but what is the reason for the two-toned treads on the Gel Kayanos? Not the
> gel per se - but the grey tread near the front of the shoe seems more rigid than the black tread
> everywhere else. Is there a technical reason for that? Thanks.
Unless you get a really good deal, don't bother. I loved mine for the first 50 miles, but eventually
got permanent blisters from the narrow toe-box.
In article <400CEB10.7598177A@boeing.com>, gentolm <gentolm@boeing.com> wrote:
>i would like to think with water palce ment but the is not ture ,,,, BTW how do you like them ? i
>was thnking about getting a pair. poldzilla
mike@SPAMOFFpartshandler.on.ca (Mike L) wrote:
>
> Unless you get a really good deal, don't bother. I loved mine for the first 50 miles, but
> eventually got permanent blisters from the narrow toe-box.
I didn't get a good deal, but first impressions were they had excellent stability. And I'm used to
a narrow toe-box, so that probably won't be a problem. But then again, I've only worn them once, so
I'm probably not the best person to comment. <g>
But the problem I'm having is pain in the ball-of-the-foot/toe area. I'm having this problem in all
"modern" running shoes I've tried and originally thought it was due to a lack of flexibility in the
fore-sole area. But with the Asics, I noticed the pain correlated almost exactly to the grey tread
in the fore-foot area. The tread there seems more rigid, and I'm wondering if that more rigid tread
causes the pain/discomfort. I run in-place (i.e., indoors), so I may be more sensitive to the tread
difference in the ball-of-the-foot area.
I'm wondering if others have had pain in this area with Asics or other shoes where the tread is
different/more rigid in the fore-foot area. And does the pain eventually go away?
> rgt833 wrote:
> >
> > Dumb question I know, but what is the reason for the two-toned treads on the Gel Kayanos? Not
> > the gel per se - but the grey tread near the front of the shoe seems more rigid than the black
> > tread everywhere else. Is there a technical reason for that? Thanks.
I believe that Asics has traditionally used blown rubber in the forefoot of their outsoles.
Blown rubber is great for cushioning, but not so great for durability. The sole you describe is
either a mix of two different types of rubber (i.e. blown + carbon), or just another attractive
gimmick to lure more potential shoe buyers, more concerned with eye-candy than utility (read
"Nike Shox" series).
njacobs1966@aol.com (N_A_J) wrote:
>> rgt833 wrote:
>> >
>> > Dumb question I know, but what is the reason for the two-toned treads on the Gel Kayanos? Not
>> > the gel per se - but the grey tread near the front of the shoe seems more rigid than the black
>> > tread everywhere else. Is there a technical reason for that? Thanks.
>
> I believe that Asics has traditionally used blown rubber in the forefoot of their outsoles. Blown
> rubber is great for cushioning, but not so great for durability. The sole you describe is either a
> mix of two different types of rubber (i.e. blown + carbon), or just another attractive gimmick to
> lure more potential shoe buyers, more concerned with eye-candy than utility (read "Nike Shox"
> series).
>
Whatever the material or it's purpose, it changes the feel of running. I had originally bought some
Nikes, which also caused pain in the forefoot, and then traded up for the Asics. I didn't notice at
the time if the Nikes used a different tread material in the forefoot, but I *think* it had two-
toned treads, which would indicate two different kinds of materials.
At this point, I'm really getting frustrated trying to find a pair of shoes for running in-place. I
just read an article that said running shoes are meant for straight-ahead motion. Well, running in-
place is pure up-and-down motion. I wonder if I should be looking at something else besides running
shoes. Cross-trainers? Basketball shoes? Something else? All I know is I bought the Asics, which
were the highest-end shoe in the store, and while they're great for stability and cushioning, they
hurt in the forefoot just like the Nikes did. I don't know whether to stick with them and hope the
pain goes away, or search for a running shoe or other type of shoe with a single type of tread. I
run 1-hour in-place everyday on a carpeted floor, so I at least know I need good cushioning and
support. But that's all I know at this point.
"rgt833" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94766FE8DAD5C442zt0@130.133.1.4...
> njacobs1966@aol.com (N_A_J) wrote: Whatever the material or it's purpose, it changes the feel of
> running. I had originally bought some Nikes, which also caused pain in the forefoot, and then
> traded up for the Asics. I didn't notice at the time if the Nikes used a different tread material
> in the forefoot, but I *think* it had two-toned treads, which would indicate two different kinds
> of materials.
>
> At this point, I'm really getting frustrated trying to find a pair of shoes for running in-place.
> I just read an article that said running shoes are meant for straight-ahead motion. Well, running
> in-place is pure up-and-down motion. I wonder if I should be looking at something else besides
> running shoes. Cross-trainers? Basketball shoes? Something else? All I know is I bought the Asics,
> which were the highest-end shoe in the store, and while they're great for stability and
> cushioning, they hurt in the forefoot just like the Nikes did. I don't know whether to stick with
> them and hope the pain goes away, or search for a running shoe or other type of shoe with a single
> type of tread. I run 1-hour in-place everyday on a carpeted floor, so I at least know I need good
> cushioning and support. But that's all I know at this point.
"Highest-end shoes" are worthless if they're not the right shoe for your feet/running style/etc.
You were able to wear what were probably quite basic, mid-to-low end shoes through an hour a day of
running-in-place for 15 years. Most runners running outdoors for an hour every day would go through
a pair of shoes every 3-4 months. This surely must indicate that the stresses placed on your shoes
are profoundly different from those of most outdoor, moving-forward runners. You do not, in all
likelihood, need the kind of cushioning and support that road runners need for daily training. You
are running on carpet, fer crissakes! T here's your cushioning! To make matters worse, running shoes
put most of their cushioning in the heel, where it won't do you any good, anyhow. And support is
just fancy-talk for "stiffer," although the shoe companies invest a lot of money every year on
figuring out how to make their shoes stiffer without being "stiff," or stiffer in the right places
with some flex in other places. And Kayanos are not only specifically designed for runners who need
extra stability because they have a tendency to roll too far to the inside ("pronation") in the
course of their stride, they are also designed for runners who are heavier, run very high mileage,
or otherwise need an extra-durable (read "stiffer") shoe.
So...I am not sure why you ignored the multiple suggestions that you check out racing flats, which
tend to be NOT as cushioned or supportive as most "trainers." (Except that you're probably shopping
at Foot Locker or some such, and they probably don't carry flats in-store.) If you're not
willing/able to find a "real" running shoe store in your area to try out a pair of racing flats,
your best bet is probably cross trainers. Try to find one that has a blown rubber outsole. Carbon
rubber is often used on parts of the outsole to add durability outdoors, but it is stiffer and
heavier than blown rubber. If you're not willing/able to shop at a store where the personnel can
answer questions like "is this sole blown or carbon rubber?" at least research models online and
come up with a number of possibilities before you hit the shop.
rgt833 wrote:
> At this point, I'm really getting frustrated trying to find a pair of shoes for running in-place.
> I just read an article that said running shoes are meant for straight-ahead motion.
If you're already running on carpet, have you tried running bare foot? Or maybe put a 2nd throw
rug on top, depending upon how much cushioning you need. Or running on hard floor using a
minimalistic shoes?
I suspect you're landing more toward the forefoot than most shoes are designed for and a very
different footstrike. Cushioned shoes on a carpet could lead to instability or the cushioning may be
inappropriately placed for your needs. Running shoes are usually designed for footstrikes on roads
or trails and I suspect the designs have changed in the last 15yrs.
When I had some recurrence of AT last year and it seemed like all my shoes hurt (running, walking),
I started doing barefoot drills in my lawn. The warmup (and sometimes other) parts of a cross-
training class I'm taking are all done bare foot (well, in socks) on gymnastics floor exercise mat.
We are usually moving (forward, backward, sideways) though. But the barefoot work really helps
strengthen foot muscles and eliminates the shoe issues.
Just a thought.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
In article <Xns94764EF105E9442zt0@130.133.1.4>, rgt833 wrote:
> mike@SPAMOFFpartshandler.on.ca (Mike L) wrote:
>
>>
>> Unless you get a really good deal, don't bother. I loved mine for the first 50 miles, but
>> eventually got permanent blisters from the narrow toe-box.
>
> I didn't get a good deal, but first impressions were they had excellent stability.
So after being advised to pick up a cheap pair of racing flats, you go and buy a shoe that is not
only one of the most expensive on the market, but also not a racing flat, and not suited to your
requirements. Take them back to the store and re-read the responses to your earlier post (and this
time, try to listen)
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
"DrLith" <drlith@hotmail.com> wrote:
You do not, in all likelihood, need
> the kind of cushioning and support that road runners need for daily training. You are running on
> carpet, fer crissakes! T here's your cushioning!
I wouldn't give the carpet *that* much credit for cushioning! But it is better than a bare floor.
> To make matters worse, running shoes put most of their cushioning in the heel, where it won't do
> you any good, anyhow. And support is just fancy-talk for "stiffer,"
That's the conclusion I've been coming to.
> So...I am not sure why you ignored the multiple suggestions that you check out racing flats, which
> tend to be NOT as cushioned or supportive as most "trainers."
Actually, I didn't ignore them, I just ended up not going with them for two reasons. First, the
admittedly limited Web search I did kind of scared me off. I got the impression racing flats are
best for "race day", not for daily wear. Secondly, the store I went to didn't carry them and I
desperately needed some shoes. I did look into some flexible shoes that were in the store, but the
flexibility was less in the material composition and more due to missing gaps in the tread. I was
willing to try them, but the salesman kept warning me off, saying they didn't offer much support.
He noted that by running an hour a day, I'm putting in a lot of mileage, and needed something more
than that.
> If you're not willing/able to find a "real" running shoe store in your area to try out a pair of
> racing flats, your best bet is probably cross trainers. Try to find one that has a blown rubber
> outsole. Carbon rubber is often used on parts of the outsole to add durability outdoors, but it is
> stiffer and heavier than blown rubber.
I will try that, thanks. That was among the suggestions I got earlier today on the phone, and it's a
suggestion I will try, but it was amazing the different stories I got talking to different stores.
Some said the gray tread near the front of the Asics was softer rubber. Some said it was harder.
Some said in-place runners run mainly on their heels; others agreed with me that we run mainly on
the forefoot. Some said the problem wasn't in the shoes, but in my feet...I should go to a doctor.
Others said cross-trainers would be good; others said to stick to running shoes. I'm amazed at how
inconsistent the level of information is out there!
Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote:
> rgt833 wrote:
>
>
>> At this point, I'm really getting frustrated trying to find a pair of shoes for running in-place.
>> I just read an article that said running shoes are meant for straight-ahead motion.
>
> If you're already running on carpet, have you tried running bare foot? Or maybe put a 2nd throw
> rug on top, depending upon how much cushioning you need. Or running on hard floor using a
> minimalistic shoes?
I used to run barefoot a long time ago, and the only reason I switched was that people told me I'd
have foot problems if I didn't wear shoes. So while I was comfortable running barefoot, I was
concerned about the long-term consequences.
And to be honest, the carpet doesn't offer hat much cushioning, and while it may feel okay for me to
run barefoot, there *has* to be a crushing impact with each footfall.
So while comfort is a big consideration for me, so is my health. I suspect that when running on a
hard surface, it would better for my feet/ankles/shin to be running in overly stiff, but highly
cushioned Asics than running barefoot with no cushioning.
Interestingly, I did try the other thing you mentioned. I tried running on a carpet remnant placed
atop the carpet. But the dang thing wouldn't stay in place! I even tried adhesive strips, and
they'd wear out. Back in the day, there was something called a "jogging pad", but they aren't
around anymore.
Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
> So after being advised to pick up a cheap pair of racing flats, you go and buy a shoe that is not
> only one of the most expensive on the market, but also not a racing flat, and not suited to your
> requirements. Take them back to the store and re-read the responses to your earlier post (and this
> time, try to listen)
I explained what happened in an earlier post, but I'd be willing to revisit the issue if I could
find a store that carried them...and also if I could find a good article on the web for
background. The articles I read, after an admittedly brief search, made them sound like something
for race day, not for everyday wear. It reminded me of how in high school, the guys would wear
girl's tennis shoes for track meets because they were lighter weight. But it wasn't what they wore
for everyday training.
rgt833 wrote:
I'm amazed at how inconsistent the level of information is out
> there!
Welcome to modern running - more technology and gizmos than anybody can understand :)
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
rgt833 wrote:
> I'm amazed at how inconsistent the level of information is out there!
This is usenet and the advice is worth exactly the amount you paid for it.
Somewhere in all the replies, there may be an answer that will work for you. Your job is to find it.
BTW, have you tried running barefoot?
Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.
In article <Xns9476872D0BB17442zt0@130.133.1.4>, rgt833 wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> So after being advised to pick up a cheap pair of racing flats, you go and buy a shoe that is not
>> only one of the most expensive on the market, but also not a racing flat, and not suited to your
>> requirements. Take them back to the store and re-read the responses to your earlier post (and
>> this time, try to listen)
>
> I explained what happened in an earlier post, but I'd be willing to revisit the issue if I could
> find a store that carried them...
You need to either find a specialty running store, or a store that has a special "running" section.
You could also purchase them online, as was suggested by some of the respondents.
> and also if I could find a good article on the web for background.
Why do you need "a good article on the web" ?
> The articles I read, after an admittedly brief search, made them sound like something for race
> day, not for everyday wear.
Well, they're certainly not "for everyday wear". But your training is not "everyday wear".
They are not very well suited to typical training runs either.
But your training runs are not "typical training runs". Your gait is different because you are
running in place, and the surface is different.
> It reminded me of how in high school, the guys would wear girl's tennis shoes for track meets
> because they were lighter weight. But it wasn't what they wore for everyday training.
The problem here is that you're confusing your "everyday training" with other peoples "everyday
training".
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
"rgt833" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94768347286AC442zt0@130.133.1.4...
> "DrLith" <drlith@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> You do not, in all likelihood, need
> > the kind of cushioning and support that road runners need for daily training. You are running on
> > carpet, fer crissakes! T here's your cushioning!
>
> I wouldn't give the carpet *that* much credit for cushioning! But it is better than a bare floor.
Well, I rate cushioning based on the ever-important "how comfortable would I be if I had to sleep on
it?" scale. Of the surfaces you might conceivably run on, carpet rates very highly, followed by
grass, rubberized track, natural trail, and finally, asphalt and concrete. And, in an appropriate
correlation, dedicated trail shoes have less cushioning that typical road trainers; dedicated track
shoes and grass shoes (x-country spikes) have less padding than trail shoes, and if anyone made a
"running on carpet" shoe, I doubt it would need much padding at all.
The obvious question that no one has asked: why run indoors in place every day? An hour a day, for
15 years? I guess there are people that do this, but my mind simply boggles. Then again, I have ADD.
I think if I tried to run in place for more than 5 minutes, the boredom would lull me into a
catatonic state.
Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <Xns9476872D0BB17442zt0@130.133.1.4>, rgt833 wrote:
>> and also if I could find a good article on the web for background.
>
> Why do you need "a good article on the web" ?
Because the more information I have, the better purchase I'll make. As it is, I'm pretty ignorant on
running shoes in general, and racing flats in particular. I could have pressed for more info when
the issue first came up, but it appeared some people thought I was a troll, so I didn't want to ask
too many questions. But the Google didn't get me very far, and the info I did find sort of steered
me away from flats -- since I didn't have enough perspective or context.
"DrLith" <drlith@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The obvious question that no one has asked: why run indoors in place every day? An hour a day, for
> 15 years?
I used to live where there were weather extremes. Indoor running got around that. I kept it up
because it's easy and one hour corresponds to one-hour dramas on TV. So I don't get bored. <g
In article <Xns9476BFBEB222F442zt0@130.133.1.4>, rgt833 wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <Xns9476872D0BB17442zt0@130.133.1.4>, rgt833 wrote:
>
>>> and also if I could find a good article on the web for background.
>>
>> Why do you need "a good article on the web" ?
>
> Because the more information I have, the better purchase I'll make. As it
You were already given specific recommendations. Those recommendations would have been a better
choice than the Kayano, and they were cheap enough to be fairly low risk purchases (especially if
you order from a place with a generous return policy -- web stores like roadrunnersports do)
I'm not sure exactly what information you were looking for, but the followup posts to your earlier
post seemed to have the essentials.
Maybe you don't trust the respondents and are looking for corroboration ? If that is the case and
you have doubts based on the website, you could always raise them in the newsgroup.
Anyway, I'm not suggesting you do a lot of hand-wringing about this -- instead, I'd suggest
returning the shoes to the store and picking up the flats.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
Donovan Rebbechi <abuse@aol.com> wrote:
> You were already given specific recommendations.
I'm one of those nerdy types is all. <g> The more information the better.
> Maybe you don't trust the respondents and are looking for corroboration ?
No, I was just concerned since it seems there are big issues here about trolls (it wasn't just the
one comment made, I did some looking around), and I didn't people thinking I was a troll for asking
a lot of questions. I see enough of that in other groups, I didn't want to become a target myself.
So I was just uncharacteristically quiet. If I had followed up on the flats, I would have asked
things about durability/longevity of the shoe, support/stability, cushioning for a fairly hard
surface like carpeted floors, preferred tread design, why more runners don't favor them, any
potential downside, that sort of thing. At this point, it probably doesn't matter. I'll just search
for a store that has them and then try them on.
> Anyway, I'm not suggesting you do a lot of hand-wringing about this -- instead, I'd suggest
> returning the shoes to the store and picking up the flats.
Yeah, that's why I'm not too worried. The store will allow me to return the shoes, so it's
no big deal.
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