What is "feel"?
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I have asked this question on another board and thought I might ask for help here as well. I am a potential road rider searching for a bike. I have been looking and riding everything I can get my hands on for the past year. I am constantly told to "ride a few bikes and pick the one that feels the best / the one that talks to you". They all feel like bikes! What am I missing in all this? I have ridden most of the bikes commonly available, but nothing is "talking" to me. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong?
I have been fitted twice (quite comprehensively). Should I just go with the bike that the shop says "fits the best"?
There's certainly something to be said for your current inclination -- at this stage, your primary concern needs to be fit. Find the appropriate balance between what your local shop guys indicate an appropriate range of configurations to be (considering frame size, stem length, stem rise, and seat height, and the resulting effects on your back, neck, reach, pedal stroke, and so on), and your own personal sense of comfort. Sizing isn't a perfectly exact science... these guys should be able to offer you a range of fitting tweaks based on your preference and style.
Once you've got a good sense of fit down, feel will probably become less and less ambiguous to you. There are differences in handling; do the angles and stem selections contribute to a more responsive ride? Does it turn quickly, or is it more forgiving?
There are also differences in road feel -- an intriguing, tricky, and sometimes controversial issue which is always promised to be at least 65% completely subjective. It's more apparent when you've been riding longer and become more familiar with your ride(s), but different bikes convey different sensations. Some feel plush, or heavy; some seem to transmit every pebble and grain of gravel right into your skull; some seem soft and flexy; some feel rock hard, or stiff. Some can be described as lively, while others feel dead. Componentry plays as big a role as the frame does; wheels, tires, seatposts and saddles typically receive attention.
The terminology gets a bit too self-involved and hyperbolic, as with wine-tasting, but there's a reason some people are so passionate about considerations of "feel." If you love your bike, and you put money into it, you want to know it inside out -- you want to understand the subtle hums and whirrs that differentiate your bike from the next.
But all in good time. You're doing the right thing by stressing a little about this (though just a little). Keep test riding, and keep looking for a proper fit. In all likelihood, the right bike will jump out at you eventually.
And when all else fails, all else being equal, go by paint job.
A good fit can be misleading. The more atheletic a person (a competitve racer) may want to have a handlebar well below the saddle's height while a tourist may want the handlebar above the saddle height. But one thing is for sure, the weight distribution of your lower and upper body on a bike, such that it would allow you to be comfortable on long or short ride. i.e. will you feel the fatigues in your hands and upper body and lower back?
when you go on longer rides, your body will begin to talk to you or complain to you.
Just grab a cheap aluminum bike and ride it for 15 minutes then grab a Ti bike right after and ride it for another 15, you should see some difference. heck grab a nice carbon bike too. Carbon bikes do a good job of damping little "buzz" on the road.
Tires types, wheels, and tire pressure all can contribute to the ride characteristics. But on a good carbon bike with good carbon tires and wheels, should do a very good job of dampening the little "buzz" or "vibration" on the road. And we're not even talking about serious pot holes or larger uneveness on the road. Climb a couple of hills or get out of the saddle in high gears and hammer hard and see how the frame reacts, does it wilt under hard pedaling? does it feel soft?
I know this is a very generalization...but if you can ride bikes of diffrent built back to back, you should be able to differentiate some differences.
Originally posted by Rudy
But on a good carbon bike with good carbon tires and wheels, should do a very good job of dampening the little "buzz" or "vibration" on the road. And we're not even talking about serious pot holes or larger uneveness on the road. Gimmie a break? Carbon tires? ,And don't forget the Carbon seatpost,bars,saddle and buttplug. Big potholes are big potholes no matter the ride is what and should be avoided.
Hey, Jeffg, what are some of the specifications you're toying with? Any models under consideration? What's your price range? And what sort of riding do you see yourself shooting for?
lokstah & Rudy are both right. You can't get a good idea of how a bike feels if it doesn't fit you and you are not in a riding position that also fits your riding style. As for what the best feel is from a bike there are some things that are usually agreed upon. Aluminum does not have a good feel. Steel, Ti & Carbon all do if there well made.
Good luck.
Originally posted by boudreaux
Gimmie a break? Carbon tires? ,And don't forget the Carbon seatpost,bars,saddle and buttplug. Big potholes are big potholes no matter the ride is what and should be avoided.
What a bunch of hooey!!
Dude...you wanna hop on my Litespeed Catalyst with the old Continental tires and compare the same bike and same wheels same pressure with my new Michelin carbon tires .......BEFORE you say anything?
I never suggested that carbon seatposts help.
Jeffg, I was in your postion a year ago and would buy differently if could do it over. As a recreational rider I feel there's 4 major areas of feel. These are turning feel determined largely by wheel base length and headtube angle. Lateral stiffness when standing in pedals and climbing. Ride quality when seated, which is really important as you do this most of the time and is an even bigger factor if you live in area of rough roads with fractures and expansion joints. And finally component feel like bearing smoothness, shifter and brake feedback, stem and bar stiffness etc. etc. Assuming your bike isn't top shelf to begin with, as you begin to upgrade you'll become more and more aware of this. These four factors work together to give the bike it's overall feel or personality. You said nothing's talking to you so I guess I'd buy a decent all around bike and start riding it . If you like road bikes you'll probably specialize after a year or two as you find you like to tour, race, rail to trail, etc. Then lay out cash for a purpose specific bike after you've got some experiences to reflect on. I wish I'd done this as I bought an aluminum racer wannabe with a catchy paint job and find all I do is tour. I'd wish I'd bought a frame and fork with a better ride, I can't really improve it much more with components, although I haven't shopped the carbon butt plugs mentioned above, maybe that would help.
Thank you all for the response to my frustration. Lokstah asked if I have any bikes under consideration at this time and what kind of riding I'm planning on doing. I currently have a mtb that I ride and race a bit. the road bike would be for fitness / duathlons / group rides. I am not considering any specific bike yet, as I'm trying to get the fit and feel thing dialed in.
My frustration comes from not knowing what I should be looking for in the feel of the bike. How can you tell what is best in a 20 - 30 minute ride in street clothes? If I spend $1000 on something, I don't want to treat that perchase lightly and "see if I like it" and "fix it later". I have no idea what the right "feel" feels like. With no appreciation of feel, do I just trust the fit?
Originally posted by jeffg
My frustration comes from not knowing what I should be looking for in the feel of the bike. How can you tell what is best in a 20 - 30 minute ride in street clothes? If I spend $1000 on something, I don't want to treat that perchase lightly and "see if I like it" and "fix it later". I have no idea what the right "feel" feels like. With no appreciation of feel, do I just trust the fit?
Understandable concerns, but don't let them get you too down. If you're spending $1000 or more on a credible bicycle that fits you, it's extremely unlikely you'll unhappy with the ride quality down the road... particularly if it's your only road bike. You may come to realize at some point that your neighbor's Ti/Carbon Merlin feels like riding an aerodynamic cloud compared to yours -- but at $5000, you might expect that in comparison.
In other words, among quality bikes in a given range, matters of ride feel are generally subtle from one bike to the next, and a properly fitted cyclist should be content with most offerings.
Buy a well-fitted bike, come to appreciate its characteristics, develop some observations about what you do and don't like. Over time, you may invest a little cash here or there on minor upgrades -- a different wheelset, tires, or seatspost -- to shave weight, adjust handling, or tweak the feel. Find out for yourself whether or not a carbon steerer tube feels any different from an alloy one. You might find it doesn't matter much.
Ultimately, your perception of "feel" contributes primarily to the purchase of your next bike, five years from now. It won't be the big factor in determining your satisfaction. If you like road riding, and your bike fits, you should be fairly comfortable. Good luck!
Jeffg, since you've set a budget at $1000 for your bike, more than likely you're looking at an aluminum or a steel bike. Ti and carbon or even aluminum and carbon are out of your $1000 price range.
If we're looking at $1000 aluminum or steel, and if you're planning on doing any kind of racing, you'd be better off with aluminum at this price range simply because at this price range the aluminum will be stiffer and lighter. Good steel that are light will cost you much more. If you don't plan on doing much racing, then yes, your search would include both aluminum and steel.
On the other hand, you may want to consider end of year model clearance or used bikes. If this is the case then your search can be widen to include many other types of bikes.
But it sounds to me like you need to get fit first. Then spend sometimes go to a shop that sells many different models and start test riding and keep in minds all of the pointers that other people have suggested here while you're riding.
Go to www.competitivecyclist.com and use their fit calculator as a starting point to get a relative knowledge of your size. You don't have to have this exact size. The more athletic riders can end up with a little bit more aggressive geometry. But from here you can dial into what you feel most comfortable on a bike.
when shopping, keep in mid that you can upgrade the components later.
Good luck and let us know how you're doing.
Lokstah....your status as Senior Member seems appropriate by your comments. They sound very well founded.
It seems like the purchase of the first bike is based on alot of uncertainty wrt the personal aspects of "feel". The fitting at one LBS seemed pretty extensive (by an apparently noted fitter of tri and road bikes) and they didn't push any particular bike at me; they wanted to fit the geometry properly first and have advised me to not pay attention to which bikes I like or dislike until we sort out the geometry. They can then suggest which bikes would fit the best in their judgement. That said, I do not currently have any particular bike brands/models in mind. Some other shops have merely asked what bikes I wanted to try without any regard to fit, so I'm not going back to them.
I can't see to weed out of all this what aspects of "feel" I can effectively judge with so little road bike experience. I've only ever ridden road bikes in LBS road tests and never more than 30 minutes at a time. Geometry is something I understand, but "feel".....I still don't think I grasp it to the point that I can use it to properly judge specific bikes. Some bikes feel different than others to a point, but which is better than the other to a rookie like me....?
Glad to help!
I think you're on the right track. In particular, you're on the right track in acknowledging that feel in otherwise comparable bikes is going to be a secondary concern for now. In a test, any ride aspect which doesn't feel astoundingly better or worse at this point won't be a point of major dissatisfaction or pleasure 6 months after your purchase. Subtle ride issues down the road can be affected, if you so chose, by little component changes. A different stem; a new saddle.
If you like 2 or 3 models you've test ridden, and don't have a particular preference between them, quiz the shop guys about components, price value, durability, and other things which may create real issues down the road. It may be that 2 bikes which feel similar on a half-hour cruise actually represent very different values -- that could make your choice easier.
There are lots of excellent offerings around $1000; you could probably snag a very reputable frame outiftted with a complete Shimano 105 drivetrain and enjoy it for a long time, let alone race it if you chose.
You're in good shape, Jeffg! The anxiety will subside. Keep asking questions, and keep narrowing things down.
I appreciate the feedback. I didn't want to come in here with the generic "I have $XX to spend so what bike should I buy" posting. I am more interested in understanding the fit and feel issues I should be addressing during the selection process and not so much about which particular bike I get. I am hoping that the time I'm spending at this (paranoid though it may seem) will be time well spent when the right bike rolls out the other end of the ordeal. At any given price point the component parts don't seem to differ greatly from bike to bike, so I'm not so concerned about the manufacturers name on the frame (provided it's reputable).
I guess I'm just a little scared about judging what's good or bad about a specific bike with so little experience. I need to relax!!!
Fair enough. You do need to start somewhere, be it a price, a component group, a frame material, a brand, a color, or whatever -- some basic, quanitifiable criteria to begin with, other than comparative road feel.
If some aspect of feel ends up tipping the scales somewhere down the line, then that'll make you all the more happy. Good luck searching!
Man do you over-analyze the whole process. Go to the shop negotiate the best deal possible and go riding.
I have over the last 20 years dropped from 1000-4500 dollars on each bike purchase, and there have been many, without half the worry that you are putting into the purchase. I have not wound up with any dogs yet.
When I first started riding I made sure that it had a 105 gruppo and every bike was fine. Although back then the choice was between cro-mo or cro-mo.
The last time I went in I chose a TCR composite within 5 minutes of entering the store and spent 1/2 an hour transferring the measuements from my previous bike to the new one for sizing.
Just buy a bike and ride. It's the riding that counts and the sooner you do it the better.
Ewitz....with all due respect; your 20 years of cycling has lead you to the point where you obviously know what you want and what fits you, therefore, you have the confidence to buy a new bike "within 5 minutes of entering the store". I am not sure what a TCR is, but I can only assume that it is a fine machine, given your experience in cycling. That kind of knowledge is something I hope I can gain in the future.
However, please allow a newcomer the time to understand what bike constitutes a "good fit" for my application so I can make an informed purchase decision. I'm not sure what is gained in rushing to a conclusion. The money isn't burning a hole in my pocket. I don't need to have it tomorrow. Having the "right bike" (and understanding how I get there) is more important than having "a bike".
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, that I think might help you a little.
Bicycle manufactures create bikes at different levels. Low and behold, they all compete at the same levels. X brand at $1000 will be very similar to Y brand at $1000. Of course there may be a couple of hundred $ difference, but all in the same range.
Here's the kicker, they make the bike the best at that level because of that whole competition thing. So what's that mean to you? Well, you're going to probably be ok no matter how you go. They will feel different, but I doubt all the talk in the world will help you to feel it.
The thing with feel is that you can't explain it. Think about trying to explain the color blue to a blind person. Where do you even start? I have to agree with those that say just pick a bike you really like at your price range and get it. Obviously make sure it is fit properly, but that's all I'd worry about. You can't worry about "feel" because you have nothing to base it on. You will like the feel of YOUR bike after a few thousand miles anyway, because that's all you know. Once you really get a feel for your bike you will "feel" differences of other bikes later.
I think a lot of your frustration is coming from the fact that no one is going to be able to explain it to you. Then, because of different tastes one persons feel will differ from another. For example, If it isn't aluminum and stupid stiff, I hate it. I want to feel every little vibration and know when I put pressure on the petal every single ounce of effort is being used to push that stiff frame forward. But that's me. I'm young and my body can take the beating. Till you have a frame of reference you will not be able to even tell it it's stiff or not.
Man, that got longer than I thought and a little random, but I hope it helps a little?
C-
jeffg...your concerns are valid and you need not rush into your purchase.
Lokstah has given you some very good suggestions. And I think Ewitts was just trying to say that test rides do really help you to determine what you're looking for. nothing can substitute for experience. For all the descriptions of fits and feels that everyone have given here, there's still that personal element that makes the bike your bike. And this usually comes from riding and riding. or that some factor that makes you want to own that bike be it the components, color etc.....
However you need to have a starting point on fit and it seems you've done so with a LBS or use the fit calculator.
I got my new bike for Christmast and although I know what my size is...I'm still playing around with the setup after putting in about 150 miles on the bike. Don't let this scare you because they're only minor adjustments.
all in all, as far as fit goes, if you've done all of the above, I don't think you'll make a major mistake. If the LBS went through extensive session for fit (and if he's also certified) or you've used the fit calculator...you should be in good hands.
Keep us posted on your decisions.
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