View Full Version : Balancing running with cycling
My primary sport is cycling. However, during the offseason I
picked up running as a means of cross-training as well as a
tool while I travel for work. Even though running is my
secondary sport, I want to get better (faster). My question
involves the balancing of running and cycling with a focus
on improving both.
My typical cycling schedule is
Monday - off Tuesday - moderate to hard (tempo, LT
intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-150 minutes Wednesday
- easy 45-60 minute spin Thursday - moderate to hard (tempo,
LT intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-150 minutes Friday
- easy 45-60 minute spin Saturday - long ride with mix of
easy to anaerobic, 120-240 minutes Sunday - long ride with
mix of easy to anaerobic, 120-240 minutes
My typical run schedule these days has me running on
only 3 days:
Tuesday - tempo or 1-mile LT intervals (1/4 mile rest
period), 5-7 miles total running usually within 30-45
minutes of the bike workout Thursday - either moderate (sub
tempo) or tempo run of 5-7 miles, usually 30-45 minutes
after riding Sunday - long run of 10-15 miles, usually in
the evening (6+ hours after cycling)
I was in Japan for a few weeks and was doing nothing but
running. I noticed that my 1-mile intervals were rather
quick for me (6:00-6:30 or so). By comparison, after a
pretty good 2 hour ride Tuesday, which involved 90+ minutes
of tempo riding (85-90% of hour threshold power), my legs
only managed 7:00-7:15 miles at pretty close to the same
heart rate and perceived effort as the "Japan mile repeats."
My legs obviously were affected by the riding. I imagine it
will only get worse once I start doing some 6x5 minute
anaerobic intervals on the bike.
Until daylight savings time arrives, splitting the workouts
into morning and evening is out of the question. As it is I
am work a 630 AM so I can get back early enough to ride in
the late afternoon. Also, I'm fairly protective of keeping
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as days off or very easy days
to allow the hard days to be harder.
So the question is, are the running interval or tempo
sessions after my strenuous cycling workouts improving my
speed or are they a waste of time? I'm sure the benefit
wouldn't be as great as if I was focusing on running only.
If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your
workouts?
My running related goals include a sub 20:00 5k, a sub 1:40
half marathon, perhaps a sub 5:30 mile, and perhaps some
duathlons.
"James P. Smith" <tigermilk@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> riding. I imagine it will only get worse once I start
> doing some 6x5
minute
> anaerobic intervals on the bike.
Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
on oxygen.
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
down constantly."
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:08:48 -0500, "SwStudio"
<shhhh_secrets@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
>much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
>on oxygen.
Here we go again...
His 6 x 5 min sessions on his bike will - if done as hard
as I suspect
- most certainly have an anaerobic component.
Just 'cause you toddle around in a happy daze when you're
doing your 'intervals' does not mean that the rest of us
mimic your euphoric state when conducting ours.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:08:48 -0500, "SwStudio"
<shhhh_secrets@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
>much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
>on oxygen.
Here we go again...
His 6 x 5 min sessions on his bike will - if done as hard
as I suspect
- most certainly have an anaerobic component.
Just 'cause you toddle around in a happy daze when you're
doing your 'intervals' does not mean that the rest of us
mimic your euphoric state when conducting ours.
"James P. Smith" <tigermilk@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<VpQ3c.32592$PY.24548@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>...
>
> So the question is, are the running interval or tempo
> sessions after my strenuous cycling workouts improving my
> speed or are they a waste of time? I'm sure the benefit
> wouldn't be as great as if I was focusing on running only.
The answer for either, both and other sports don't do 2 hard
workouts in a row. Either you will injure yourself or the
second workout won't be effective since you'll be too tired
from the first one.
>
> If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your
> workouts?
In my triathlon days I would run (my strength) 5 days a week
with 1 or perhaps 2 speed workouts during the week. I would
bike at least 1 day during the week (20-30 miles per ride)
and a long ride (40-60 miles) on the weekends. Occasionally
I'd do a short ride after a long run on Sundays.
If you want to be good at both you really need to focus on
quality than quantity. A 4 hour tempo ride is going to kill
your 10 mile long run the next day. If you want to do
biathlons (I hate that other word) then find out how far the
bike leg is and don't ride longer than 10 or 15 miles beyond
that. Another option is to go with your strength. Make
yourself a very fast cyclist and an adequite runner. That
was my strategy, I'd maintain 20 mph on the bike pass a few
people and get passed by others and then still be able to
maintain 6 minute per mile on the run. Of course my 4 minute
transitions killed me.
>
> My running related goals include a sub 20:00 5k, a sub
> 1:40 half marathon, perhaps a sub 5:30 mile, and perhaps
> some duathlons.
If you want to focus on running run and don't ride as much.
I can do 2 shortish (20-40 miles) rides per week and
maintain excellent running fitness. I've always found that
my running is so much better than my cycling, guys who drop
me on a bike can't keep up with my running training pace.
What I mean is that riding is nice cross training but it
will interfere with some top end running workouts. Don't
expect to be able to ride yourself into running shape. If
you can live with 2 rides a week then you should be able to
run your goals.
Andy
James P. Smith wrote in message ...
>My primary sport is cycling.
My question involves the balancing of running and
cycling with a
>focus on improving both.
>
>So the question is, are the running interval or tempo
>sessions after my strenuous cycling workouts improving my
>speed or are they a waste of time? I'm sure the benefit
>wouldn't be as great as if I was focusing on running only.
>My typical cycling schedule is
>
>Monday - off Tuesday - moderate to hard (tempo, LT
>intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-150 minutes
>Wednesday - easy 45-60 minute spin Thursday - moderate to
>hard (tempo, LT intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-
>150 minutes Friday - easy 45-60 minute spin Saturday -
>long ride with mix of easy to anaerobic, 120-240 minutes
>Sunday - long ride with mix of easy to anaerobic, 120-240
>minutes My typical run schedule these days has me running
>on only 3 days:
>
>Tuesday - tempo or 1-mile LT intervals (1/4 mile rest
>period), 5-7 miles total running usually within 30-45
>minutes of the bike workout Thursday - either moderate (sub
>tempo) or tempo run of 5-7 miles, usually 30-45 minutes
>after riding Sunday - long run of 10-15 miles, usually in
>the evening (6+ hours after cycling)
>
>If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your
>workouts?
From my perspective as a triathlete, you'll have to give up
something on the bike if you want to do serious training on
the run. But that being said, I think, based on your no
biking experience in Japan, that you could meet your goals
by just easing off on the bike for a week or so before the
race, though the half might take a little more dedicated
training. My impression is that you are doing too much hard
stuff on Tues and Thurs. I would only try the hard run stuff
on the days when the bike time was under 90 minutes or so.
My experience is that in terms of muscle recovery it isn't
too bad to mix run and bike, since different muscle groups
are involved. If I were doing roughly what you are doing I
would drop the Sunday ride (though I know --or at least suspect--
that it is a group ride where the social aspect is
important) since it doesn't add much to what you get from
your Sat. ride and I would concentrate on running on Sunday
to improve the quality of the run workout. I would also
experiment with moving one of the run works to either Wed.
or Fri--probably Fri. An alternative approach would be to
throw in a cycling-light, running heavy week about every
third or fourth week.
Take this for what it's worth (probably what you paid
for it) Bill
5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode. In
fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
"Carlos Jones" <ancientmarathonrunners@good-old-days.co.uk>
wrote in message
news:ge7150ltfok18mvo8oca8c4rcmqipv7erm@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:08:48 -0500, "SwStudio"
> <shhhh_secrets@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
> >much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
> >on oxygen.
>
> Here we go again...
>
> His 6 x 5 min sessions on his bike will - if done as hard
> as I suspect
> - most certainly have an anaerobic component.
>
> Just 'cause you toddle around in a happy daze when you're
> doing your 'intervals' does not mean that the rest of us
> mimic your euphoric state when conducting ours.
"Sam" <marathonman@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> 5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
> In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
It certainly would be - I've recently started doing my
intervals based on time rather than distance, like the
above. It seems to be a more accurate way of steadily
adjusting the training load as the weeks (and myself,
hopefully) progress!
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
down constantly."
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:11:17 GMT, "Sam" <marathonman@mindspring.com>
wrote:
> 5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
> In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
Although - at first sight - our application of the laws of
biology appears to differ significantly, I suspect this
confusion is more a case of your inability to use language
correctly.
Emily Jane Bronte wrote:
I would have thought you might favor Charlotte or Anne
rather then the more popular Emily.
>>5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
>>In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
>
>
> Although - at first sight - our application of the laws of
> biology appears to differ significantly, I suspect this
> confusion is more a case of your inability to use language
> correctly.
Is there some part of Sam's statement we can translate into
Rhodesian Ridgeback to increase your comprehension?
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:12:06 GMT, Doug Freese <dfreese@NOBShvc.rr.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Emily Jane Bronte wrote:
>
>I would have thought you might favor Charlotte or Anne
>rather then the more popular Emily.
I'm a sucker for a babe, you know that. Apparently, she was
the prettiest.
ishky@earthlink.net (amh) wrote in message news:<2b961d1-
f.0403111121.27e9c5dd@posting.google.com>... ...
> run the next day. If you want to do biathlons (I hate that
> other word)
....
Wether you hate it or not, the correct word is duathlon.
Biathlon would belong to the skiers forum.
Welcome to the biathlon world: http://www.biathlonworld.com (http://www.biathlonworld.com/)
Emily Jane Bronte <asistertocharlotte@wutheringheights.org.uk> wrote in message news:<no7350dn9jnfvrnrb58pvbtqj720vvgtpr@4ax.com>...
> I'm a sucker for a babe, you know that.
Yes, your probation officer warned us of your
'inclinations'.
Sam wrote:
> 5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
> In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
anaerobic element? Sure, as the duration of the exercise,
the proportion of that exercise that is "anaerobic" will
diminish but it's still there.
When I finish any sort of rep session, I'm gasping, not
just breathing hard. Why? Because I've built up an oxygen
debt. If I wasn't using any of my anaerobic reserves, I'd
be doing no more than breathing as hard as I was at the
halfway point say.
Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or
http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK tax payer.
Sam wrote:
> 5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
> In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
anaerobic element? Sure, as the duration of the exercise,
the proportion of that exercise that is "anaerobic" will
diminish but it's still there.
When I finish any sort of rep session, I'm gasping, not
just breathing hard. Why? Because I've built up an oxygen
debt. If I wasn't using any of my anaerobic reserves, I'd
be doing no more than breathing as hard as I was at the
halfway point say.
Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or
http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK tax payer.
> Take this for what it's worth (probably what you paid for
> it) Bill
>
Appreciate all the posts but yours was the best answer to
his question.
(another Bill)
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:21:56 -0000, "Tim Downie"
<timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
>anaerobic element?
To suggest that to the 'experts' on rec.running is
heresy, Tim.
"Tim Downie" <timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote
in message
> Sam wrote:
> > 5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
> > In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.
>
> Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
> anaerobic
element?
> Sure, as the duration of the exercise, the proportion of
> that exercise
that
> is "anaerobic" will diminish but it's still there.
>
> When I finish any sort of rep session, I'm gasping, not
> just breathing
hard.
> Why? Because I've built up an oxygen debt. If I wasn't
> using any of my anaerobic reserves, I'd be doing no more
> than breathing as hard as I was
at
> the halfway point say.
You've got it backwards. You are using aerobic power to
reach oxygen debt. The gasping for air is caused by the
body's failure in providing enough oxygen to continue.
There's a small anaerobic element, but overwhelmingly you
are stressing the aerobic system in this situation.
The training stimulus would show results in this area,
accordingly, as the goal of this workout would be to improve
the ability to stay under lactate threshold longer/faster,
i.e. maintain aerobic status.
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
down constantly."
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:49:24 -0500, "SwStudio"
<shhhh_secrets@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You've got it backwards. You are using aerobic power to
>reach oxygen debt. The gasping for air is caused by the
>body's failure in providing enough oxygen to continue.
>There's a small anaerobic element, but overwhelmingly you
>are stressing the aerobic system in this situation.
Told you. Forget everything you learned at med school, the
rec.runners know better.
"Gary" <lameduck6858@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1436e037.0403120518.7eaac8b7@posting.google.com...
> ishky@earthlink.net (amh) wrote in message
news:<2b961d1f.0403111121.27e9c5dd@posting.google.com>...
> ...
> > run the next day. If you want to do biathlons (I hate
> > that other word)
> ....
>
> Wether you hate it or not, the correct word is duathlon.
> Biathlon would belong to the skiers forum.
>
Wouldn't it be more accurate to put biathlon in a shooting
forum? After all its the shooting that defines the sport,
not the menas of locomotion betgween targets.
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