Man struck by cyclist dies - Page 3

You've defined it extremely well. Common enough for non-participants to totally misinterpret what a bunch could be up to, I've lost count of the times I've overheard the Alpine Classic being refered to as a "race" by Bright residents. Or no-so-bright residents.

*ducks*

more than one cyclist in the vicinity of each other, in lycra, = a race!!!

and to borrow from gplama's capacity for excellent analogies: the alpine classic is as much a race as peak hour on the monash freeway.

warrwych wrote:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:

>> Only 2/3? Surely racing is against the law, even if you're doing less
>> than
>> the speed limit. How about riding more than 2 abreast?

> Define racing. I think the word "racing" is not used accurately within
> these reports, and particular training activities (eg sprint efforts)
> or fast-paced rolling bunches are seen as "racing" by the general
> public/media/police. Having ridden on Beach Rd on both Saturday and
> Sunday mornings several times a year, I don't see anyone racing.

When someone gloats to the ng that "I beat gplama" at least someone thought
it was a race.

> If racing were illegal, clubs wouldnt be able to hold races.

Racing on open public roads without a permit is illegal.

> It is also legal for pairs of riders to be passing other pairs of
> riders and remain 2 abreast while doing so (ie 4 across a lane). This
> has been discussed elsewhere and at other times on this forum.

Blah, blah, rationalise, blah.

> And yes, I am being pedantic, but please let's keep some perspective
> and rationality on this one, rather than inflaming an already inflamed
> subject (general comment and not targetted at Theo).

So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?

Theo

oi.. please.. I'm still getting over that defeat, no need to rub it in

C'mon peoples... happy place happy place... I had a driver wave and smile at me today because I gave way to him at a round-a-bout (which is what I should have done anyways (and DID)). I returned a smile and a nod.. it was great... I then nearly got taken out head-on by a 4WD no more than 30 seconds later, but hey, thems the breaks!

TimC wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote

> Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
> beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
> treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
> training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
> more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?

By that definition most of the sprinters in the TdeF weren't actually
racing. :-)
A pack of 200 riders on a public road? ****, that does sound dangerous.

>> So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?

> A bit different to a guy riding a bike, below the speed and alcohol
> limits, who hasn't yet been proven whether he had been riding
> irresonsibly for the past hour and a half, or whether this was just a
> moment where he couldn't get to his brakes in time.

You need to ride irresponsibly for an hour and a half before you become
culpable?
Having said that, I almost feel sorry for him.

Theo

gplama wrote:

> I then nearly got taken out head-on by a 4WD no more than 30 seconds
> later,

Wasn't me, my ute is 2WD. :-)

Theo

aaaah Theo, so articulate, so entertaining blah blah blah

and re: McGee. McGee ran away to sober up and get his brother to help him out. The cyclist who hit Mr Gould apparently stopped and assisted. That's the difference.

Add in lame as well. Seems the poor old bugger can't help himself.

warrwych wrote:

> and re: McGee. McGee ran away to sober up and get his brother to help
> him out. The cyclist who hit Mr Gould apparently stopped and assisted.
> That's the difference.

Agreed.

Theo

cfsmtb wrote:
> warrwych Wrote:

>> aaaah Theo, so articulate, so entertaining blah blah blah

> Add in lame as well. Seems the poor old bugger can't help himself.

Hehe.

Theo

"Terryc" <newsonespam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:44f3e6cf$0$7794$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
> dechucka wrote:
>> I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law As far as I know
>
> Nope.

Isn't it please enlighten me

On 2006-08-30, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>> Theo Bekkers wrote
>
>> Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
>> beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
>> treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
>> training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
>> more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?
>
> By that definition most of the sprinters in the TdeF weren't actually
> racing. :-)

Most of the sprinters? Sure, they were racing for the stage, not the
GC.

It's also a teams race, and most of them aren't racing, they're merely
trying to hang on for as long as possible so they're able to support
other riders who are.

> A pack of 200 riders on a public road? ****, that does sound dangerous.

Well, Harry Barber's own ATB and GVBRs have bigger packs, with less
experienced more gumby riders. Sure, they have police presence, but
only covering about 1% of the actual length of the field in a given
day.

>>> So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?
>
>> A bit different to a guy riding a bike, below the speed and alcohol
>> limits, who hasn't yet been proven whether he had been riding
>> irresonsibly for the past hour and a half, or whether this was just a
>> moment where he couldn't get to his brakes in time.
>
> You need to ride irresponsibly for an hour and a half before you become
> culpable?

Demonstrated culpability vs error of judgement.

--
TimC
"It took people a long time to figure out which machine was [mooing],
and even longer to figure out how. But for some reason it didn't take
them any time at all to figure that I'd done it." -- Paul Tomblin on ASR

dechucka wrote:


> Isn't it please enlighten me

I know of nothing in NSW that says that I, whilst specifically riding a
bicycle, that I must give way to any motor vehicle. The only stuff that
I know of relates to all (mv, bicycle, etc) road users anyway.

Theo Bekkers wrote:
> TimC wrote:
> > Theo Bekkers wrote
>
> > Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
> > beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
> > treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
> > training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
> > more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?
>
> By that definition most of the sprinters in the TdeF weren't actually
> racing. :-)
> A pack of 200 riders on a public road? ****, that does sound dangerous.

It is. Moreso when it's mostly riders desperatly trying to go as fast
as they can to stay with the bunch. It is less of an issue with mass
participation tootles (ATB etc) although there is a greater (IMO) risk
in these rides than there is in small bunches.

What happened, was bound to happen, sooner or later, which does not
dimish the responsibility of those involved. I have actively
discouraged the riders I work with from participating in the hellride
for years, as I didn't want them (or indirectly, myself) involved in
the inevitable serious injury or death.

Any coach that encourages their riders to participate in rides like the
hellride is, IMO, grossly irresponsible. Any rider that participates in
it, the same. Even if you play by the rules while doing it, a
significant number of riders do not, and being part of it validates
that behaviour. I stopped recommending the north rd fast rides a few
years ago when the size of them swelled to the point that they broke up
at lights and the bunch started shooting reds regularly. IMO it became
too dangerous to support.

We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
harms us all.

The Hell Ride ain't anywhere near as dangerous as a B Grade Glenvale Criterium, and it's NOT even a race.