Man struck by cyclist dies - Page 4

In aus.bicycle on 30 Aug 2006 02:27:29 -0700
Bleve <carl.I.brewer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
> our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
> than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
> wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
> As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
> harms us all.

Going to be interesting to see if behaviour changes in the short and
long terms.

I presume it will in the short term if only because there's bound to
be a police blitz.

But in the long term? Probably not, because the niche is going to be
filled with the same kind of people as fill it now. Unless the
crackdown makes changes so that the ride as it currently exists has to
change.

Not sure what those could be though, as things like permanent police
presence at reds would cost too much.

As the people involved aren't really linked except by liking bikes
there doesn't seem to be much anyone can do in the way of social
engineering. If you are in the bunch that makes the light would you
know if the bod behind you didn't, and what could you do to show
displeasure and (crucially) discourage him from doing it again?

Zebee

WTF do you know about B-grade? (unless sandbagging, of course)

Ritch

(... wtf do I know about the Hell ride, or Glenvale crits...)

On 2006-08-30, Terryc <newsonespam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:
> dechucka wrote:
>
>
>> Isn't it please enlighten me
>
> I know of nothing in NSW that says that I, whilst specifically riding a
> bicycle, that I must give way to any motor vehicle. The only stuff that
> I know of relates to all (mv, bicycle, etc) road users anyway.

What he said. A bicycle is a vehicle, has the same rights and is
subject to the same rules as other road vehicles. Nip down to the RTA
(NSW) or equivalent if you're in another state. They'll have a booklet
for cyclists which explains it all.

--
John
When C++ is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb.

Jono L wrote:
> The Hell Ride ain't anywhere near as dangerous as a B Grade Glenvale
> Criterium, and it's NOT even a race.

There's road closures, permits, controlled intersections. It's *legal*
and there's commisaires who can evict riders who don't abide by the
rules (I know .. I sometimes am one of those commisaires). We work
hard to make it safe for everyone.

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on 30 Aug 2006 02:27:29 -0700
> Bleve <carl.I.brewer@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
> > our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
> > than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
> > wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
> > As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
> > harms us all.
>
> Going to be interesting to see if behaviour changes in the short and
> long terms.
>
> I presume it will in the short term if only because there's bound to
> be a police blitz.
>
> But in the long term? Probably not, because the niche is going to be
> filled with the same kind of people as fill it now. Unless the
> crackdown makes changes so that the ride as it currently exists has to
> change.

Agreed.

> Not sure what those could be though, as things like permanent police
> presence at reds would cost too much.
>
> As the people involved aren't really linked except by liking bikes
> there doesn't seem to be much anyone can do in the way of social
> engineering. If you are in the bunch that makes the light would you
> know if the bod behind you didn't, and what could you do to show
> displeasure and (crucially) discourage him from doing it again?

There's not much you can do, which is a major reason for why I stopped
participating in those sorts of rides some time ago. The idiots will
be idiots, and there's new idiots every day.

Every few years there's a crackdown on it, it gets better behaved for a
few weeks, then it's back to what it was.

What about starting new, alternative rides that explicitly emphasise
safe riding, and publicise this as a good model? See
http://www.southbankbunch.com/ (Brisbane). Anyone who doesn't want to
follow the code is invited to leave. I'm sure lots of you do this
already. The point is to go on the front foot about it, with a
positive, public message.

Donga

Not much evidence of it changing at all if the last couple of commutes are anything to go by. This morning was a "straight to work" morning (ie. I was only on the bike for about 15 minutes and ten of those are in Royal Park). Four cyclists went through red traffic lights (two of them causing drivers to take evasive action), another went through a pedestrian crossing on the red (the pedestrians kindly waited for him), one dill had to practice track stands at a busy intersection and managed to wobble over at least one lane of the two lane cross road (this after other cyclists making sure he had plenty of place to fall over without taking the rest of us out) before the light actually changed.

I doubt that it is lack of skills that is the issue.

ali

A few interesting letters in The Age today about the incident (There's also a poll on whether cyclists should be subject to the same laws, but those polls are a joke...)

Most of the letters are well done, but the last one is a corker as someone calls for the complete segregation of cyclists and motorists in a manner which "must not penalise the motorist"...

Hmm... he lives in Kew - perhaps a brief visit is in order

"Terryc" <newsonespam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:44f3e6cf$0$7794$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
> dechucka wrote:
>> I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law As far as I know
>
> Nope.

yes it is you give way to cars riding a bike just as you would if you were
driving a car.

If some bike riders actually obeyed the road rules it would be better
instead of thinking they are special in some way. For example I am a bike
rider I don't have to obey red lights, pedestrian crossing rules etc etc
which happens in the "Hell Ride " from what I have observed. Probably the
bunch that I saw and road with for a while were the macho butch feral types
but they had no respect for any other road users including fellow riders.

The only reason I went along was because a mate at the footy game ( not
VFL ) I went down to Melb for suggested it and lent me a bike, never again
some riders were more feral than Sydney courier riders.

"John Pitts" <kisoau@dodo.chapeau.com.au.invalid> wrote in message
newsqdhs3-1u2.ln1@leafnode.kisoau@news.dodo.com.au...
> On 2006-08-30, Terryc <newsonespam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> dechucka wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Isn't it please enlighten me
>>
>> I know of nothing in NSW that says that I, whilst specifically riding a
>> bicycle, that I must give way to any motor vehicle. The only stuff that
>> I know of relates to all (mv, bicycle, etc) road users anyway.
>
> What he said. A bicycle is a vehicle, has the same rights and is
> subject to the same rules as other road vehicles. Nip down to the RTA
> (NSW) or equivalent if you're in another state. They'll have a booklet
> for cyclists which explains it all.

so cyclists do have to give way to cars just as any vehicle does

Donga wrote:
> What about starting new, alternative rides that explicitly emphasise
> safe riding, and publicise this as a good model? See
> http://www.southbankbunch.com/ (Brisbane). Anyone who doesn't want to
> follow the code is invited to leave. I'm sure lots of you do this
> already. The point is to go on the front foot about it, with a
> positive, public message.

a few years ago now, Crowy and CCCC (and maybe stkc?) started the
'7:07' as an alternative, leaving 7 mins after the hell ride. I did it
on the first ride.

It didn't last

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:44:39 +1000, dechucka wrote:

> so cyclists do have to give way to cars just as any vehicle does

At an intersection or similar, yes. The way your original post was phrased
it appeared to say you jumped out of the way of every car you saw, no
matter where you were. There are plenty of bike riders who do that kind of
thing.

Sometimes it's appropriate (ducking off the road for a minute to let a line
of waiting traffic through is social behaviour no matter what vehicle
you're in/on), sometimes it's not (trying to do so on a busy suburban
road with any frequency is dangerous).

--
Dave Hughes | dave@hired-goons.net
Love wouldn't be blind if the braille wasn't so damned much fun.
- Armistead Maupin

On another note, SKCC have organised a memorial ride for Friday night. Not entirely convinced this is the best course of action when events are still rather overheated. Suppose it's personal choice and/or call if people wish to ride.

****************

St Kilda Cycling Club
SKCC committee and its members were shocked and saddened to hear of the tragic death of James Gould, a pedestrian who was hit by a cyclist and subsequently died from injuries sustained. It is understood the cyclist failed to stop at the ‘red’ pedestrian lights at Mentone and collided with Mr Gould.

The Club strongly supports safe and responsible cycling and condemns irresponsible behaviour by cyclists and motorists alike. As cyclists we support the shared and safe use of the great amenity that is Beach Road. In the busy period in the lead up to summer and major events like Around the Bay in a Day, this incident serves as a reminder to all cyclists to be responsible every time.

As a sign of respect, please join a SKCC ride this FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER leaving Café Racer at 6am and joining the North Road Ride to stop at Mentone for a minute’s silence.

Please wear your SKCC as a show of solidarity that cyclists must obey the road rules and ride responsibly.

cfsmtb wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> > a few years ago now, Crowy and CCCC (and maybe stkc?) started the
> > '7:07' as an alternative, leaving 7 mins after the hell ride. I did
> > it
> > on the first ride.
>
> On another note, SKCC have organised a memorial ride for Friday night.
> Not entirely convinced this is the best course of action when events
> are still rather overheated. Suppose it's personal choice and/or call
> if people wish to ride.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, part of me says 'show the public
we're not all turds', and part says 'stay away from this stuff' (not
well worded, sorry ).

as you say, personal choice ...

It's interesting that they didn't propose to do it on Tues or Thurs
morning ... they're the fast rides, and I'll wager that those bunches
are just as badly behaved as ever.

I'm inclined to think "stay away" 1) I feel the ironic inappropriateness (ie surely there has to be a more considerate way??) in displaying sorrow in this way and 2) the cynic says its SKCC's way of saying "hey, it wasn't us; we're not part of the hell ride" via a public mass display of their kit....