Herald Sun reader comments on death of James Gould - Page 7

On 2006-09-03, geoffs (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Artoi Wrote:
>> In article <kamoylan-6C3097.16532503092006@freenews.iinet.net.au>,
>> "K.A. Moylan" <kamoylan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I used to walk across a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing
>> > like that. Once a car crossed against his red light (I still had the
>> > green & the clacker was still going), so I gave the car a kick.
>> >
>> > Canberra, Australia
>>
>> A Canberran specific phenomenon?
>
> No
>
> I had a moron drive through a pedestrian crossing at Lane Cove causing
> me to jump backwards to avoid being hit.
> The driver received a caved in door and rear quarter panel from a
> couple of well placed kicks as a fine for his stupidity.

Cool. Justice swiftly served. Didn't it hurt, though?

--
TimC
The Unixverse ends on Tue, 19 Jan 2038 03:14:07 +0000

From todays Age letters (4/9), a fine rebuttal of most of the more flaky media nonsense.

http://www.theage.com.au/letters/?pa...e#contentSwap2
Reconciliation

CONGRATULATIONS to all the cyclists involved in Friday morning's moving tribute to the pedestrian tragically killed on Beach Road last week. Let's hope this response signals the dawn of a new age of respect and co-operation between all road users.

Next time someone is killed by a stupid and irresponsible motorist I'll expect 200 other motorists to gather for a memorial service and pledge to strive for safer and more friendly roads.

Philip Crohn, Surrey Hills

One of my brothers had a business which used 50t tip trucks. From time to time the trucks were used to cart demolition waste. He always did the right thing and unloaded at the tip. But there was little incentive to do that as the fine for roadside dumping was less than the per load fee for commercial users at the tip.


SteveA

In the great scheme of things, introducing a breeding licence is probably more important than introducing a cycling licence.

Would you give an open licence, ie have as many kids as your body can produce, or a 'limited number of offspring' licence?

SteveA

SteveA wrote:
> dave Wrote:
>
>>Terryc wrote:
>>
>>>BrettS wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Just like when you push a stroller across a zebra crossing, you can't
>>>>assume anything...
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, can you explain what all those mothers who blindly push them
>>
>>onto
>>
>>>busy roads are doing?
>>
>>
>>I actually picked upa kid once whose mum had just pushed the stroller
>>out the front of a bus. Saw the whole thing. The cab driver had not
>>the slightest chance of missing or stopping and if he hadnt slowed down
>>to aa cautious crawl the kid wouldnt have had a chance.
>>
>>I have no clue what the mother was doing. But a society with any
>>intelligence should have stopped her (somehow) fom having kids
>>
>>Dave
>
> In the great scheme of things, introducing a breeding licence is
> probably more important than introducing a cycling licence.
>
>
> Would you give an open licence, ie have as many kids as your body can
> produce, or a 'limited number of offspring' licence?

Hell no. A licence after each child. As it may just be that its the
child that drives the parent into being such a crap parent.

Dave

>
> SteveA
>
>

Refer below for a 3AW news update. Also, apparently, a **certain commercial network** has been attempting to 'knock on the door' of a St Kilda 30yo man who has been helping police with their enquiries.

Never allow due process get in the way of a witchhunt, huh? Now where did I put ma pitchfork ....

**********

http://www.3aw.com.au/main_news.asp

posted by on Thursday, 14 September 2006 12:14:25 PM
Police have decided a cyclist who ran a red light, and killed a pedestrian at MENTONE three weeks ago -- won't face more serious charges.

A 77 year-old man died when he was struck by a cyclist -- in the so-called HELL RIDE on Beach Road.

The 30 year-old rider will be charged on summons -- with disobeying a red light.

The Age - Charge expected for hell ride death.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/charge-for-hell-ride-death/2006/09/14/1157827073077.html

Police are set to charge a 30-year-old Melbourne cyclist with disobeying a red light after he allegedly hit and killed a pedestrian during a notorious cycling race.
...
"Because it wasn't in a motor car, that was the only offence applicable for a cyclist," Sen Const Dennis said.



Seems like they didn't think it worth pursuing manslaughter, perhaps considering that they wouldn't charge a driver with manslaughter in a similar situation. Instead a driver might get the "lesser" offence of "culpable driving causing death", however that only applies to motor vehicle drivers and typically gets 6 - 8 year jail terms (according to BV website).

ghostgum wrote:
> The Age - Charge expected for hell ride death.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...827073077.html
>
> Police are set to charge a 30-year-old Melbourne cyclist with
> disobeying a red light after he allegedly hit and killed a pedestrian
> during a notorious cycling race.
> ..
> "Because it wasn't in a motor car, that was the only offence applicable
> for a cyclist," Sen Const Dennis said.

It's only 7:25 and I'm already outraged! How can they NOT charge him
with something along the lines of manslaughter due to his conduct
resulting in the death of another human being?

Ben Thomas wrote:
> ghostgum wrote:
>
>> The Age - Charge expected for hell ride death.
>>
>> http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...827073077.html
>>
>>
>> Police are set to charge a 30-year-old Melbourne cyclist with
>> disobeying a red light after he allegedly hit and killed a pedestrian
>> during a notorious cycling race.
>> ..
>> "Because it wasn't in a motor car, that was the only offence applicable
>> for a cyclist," Sen Const Dennis said.
>
>
> It's only 7:25 and I'm already outraged! How can they NOT charge him
> with something along the lines of manslaughter due to his conduct
> resulting in the death of another human being?

Well I agree.

BUT. I dont think there would be a chance of a jury convicting on that
charge. So the prosecution would be malicious. So maybe we should be
grateful they didnt? Malicious prosecutions suck. Like that poor
security guard charged with murder in Sydney. No chance of her being
found guilty. But being charged probably ruined her life. And yet you
could find 20 far more dodgy police shootings without looking very hard.
With no one ever being charged.

Anyway thats what I think. At that he is likely to be punished more
severely than some who have killed cyclists. Your basic point is valid
tho. It is outragous

Dave

The police can only charge him with a penalty notice for allegedly failing to obey a traffic light, as he was cycling and not driving a motor vehicle.

I'll agree this is not a level playing field so to speak. There's obviously a legal "disconnect" between bicycle as legally a road vehicle (AustRoads 1999) and bicycle as a legally *equally* road vehicle to motorised vehicles. The law can be a **** some times.

Ben Thomas wrote:

> It's only 7:25 and I'm already outraged! How can they NOT charge him
> with something along the lines of manslaughter due to his conduct
> resulting in the death of another human being?

lol, because they don't charge motorists with anything much as well and
even motorists get convicted, they get as wrist slap fine.

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:25:06 GMT
Ben Thomas <no.sp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:
>
> It's only 7:25 and I'm already outraged! How can they NOT charge him
> with something along the lines of manslaughter due to his conduct
> resulting in the death of another human being?

What's the legal definition of manslaughter? I've no idea.

Do you know? Can you quote it?

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:25:06 GMT
> Ben Thomas <no.sp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:
>> It's only 7:25 and I'm already outraged! How can they NOT charge him
>> with something along the lines of manslaughter due to his conduct
>> resulting in the death of another human being?
>
> What's the legal definition of manslaughter? I've no idea.
>
> Do you know? Can you quote it?
>
> Zebee

I have no idea. It seems rather absurd that you can only "get in
trouble" for killing someone under very specific circumstances.

Ben

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:55:02 GMT
Ben Thomas <no.sp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> What's the legal definition of manslaughter? I've no idea.
>>
>> Do you know? Can you quote it?
>
> I have no idea. It seems rather absurd that you can only "get in
> trouble" for killing someone under very specific circumstances.

Well, it's about intent.

if I am up a ladder, and the ladder breaks, I fall and hit someone who
has a heart attack, am I a murderer?

I am if I deliberately jumped off the ladder aiming to hit that
person. I probably am if I did it aiming to hit someone. I
definitely am if death was the intent, it's harder to say I am if
frightening them was my intent. I might be guilty of negligence or
manslaughter if I was a professional user of a ladder who is expected
to follow safety regs, I might not be if I was someone who had just
bought a 2nd hand ladder and knew nothing about them. And then
there's the problem that maybe the bod was taking a shortcut on
private land and I had no expectation of someone being there. Not to
mention the timing issue - falling off a ladder's not illegal, the
only reason there's a problem is one of timing.

Many hundreds of years of law have explored the full range of
possibilities and tried to deal with complex and difficult situations.


Zebee