Short bentriders-What do you ride? - Page 3

I am 5.3" with an Xseam of 36-37". Last night I test rode a S/M Lightning Phantom. My feet were
deliciously FLAT,FLAT, FLAT on the ground. The boom was getting dangerously close to maximum
insertion. Perhaps the main tube could be cut to allow the boom to be pulled in. I was riding 165
cranks and, like your friends, would like shorter cranks that would require pulling in the boom
even more.

The P-38 is allegedly 1" lower in the seat. Check out the Lightning model bikes for X-seam
requirements.

So far the only two bikes that have let me flat-foot have been the GRR and the Phantom.

Lightning charges an extra $220 for a small P-38 frame so I am going to boycott them and try for a
Giro. I refuse to patronize a company that discriminates for any reason including size. My LBS is
expecting a small Giro in a couple of weeks.

Giro. fits perfect!

short frame TE. But there's not a lot of adjustment in the seat slide for shorter people.

"BethF" <beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message news:v9si63nct3nn81@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Giro. fits perfect!

I think all short riders should gang up on Lightning and demand that they sell the small P-38 at
the same price as the larger ones. There is no legitimate reason for the discrimination. Once a
welding jig is made for the small frames the amount of work is the same. Lightning already has the
welding jig.

Discriminatory pricing is also extremely bad marketing. I guess the Lightning reputation for not
caring what customers think is well deserved. If they hear enough complaints and lose enough sales
then maybe they will rethink their policy.

Taller riders in search of a worthy cause are welcome to join the protest/boycott. Afterwards we are
all going to Randy Newman's house and kick him in the shins until he is black-and-blue. Volunteers
needed to bring brownies and hot chocolate.

Watch out for Randy. He's liable to see you coming and drop the BIG ONE! "Don" <dizone1@lycos.com>
wrote in message news:bf9a2acd.0304170801.b5c5e12@posting.google.com...
> I think all short riders should gang up on Lightning and demand that they sell the small P-38 at
> the same price as the larger ones. There is no legitimate reason for the discrimination. Once a
> welding jig is made for the small frames the amount of work is the same. Lightning already has the
> welding jig.
>
> Discriminatory pricing is also extremely bad marketing. I guess the Lightning reputation for not
> caring what customers think is well deserved. If they hear enough complaints and lose enough sales
> then maybe they will rethink their policy.
>
> Taller riders in search of a worthy cause are welcome to join the protest/boycott. Afterwards we
> are all going to Randy Newman's house and kick him in the shins until he is black-and-blue.
> Volunteers needed to bring brownies and hot chocolate.

I thought Randy Newman died a few years ago...or was that Alfred J.? hmmm a boycott of Lightning
Recumbents by the wee little folk....it just might work. In this age with half the population trying
to appear politically correct and the other half are lining up to see buxom lesbian wrestlers
fighting in a pool of Jell-O, no company wants to be labelled as discriminatory against dwarfs. My
wife btw is a Dwarf at 63 1/2 inches tall. I read somewhere that to be a legal dwarf you had to be
under 64 inches....did wonder if there are illegal dwarfs or is it dwarves. Lightning could use the
free publicity, get a bunch of angry dwarves with picket signs marching up and down the street all
signing the Oompah song from Willy Wonka. You could make a mint touring America on daytime talkshows
and talking about how your people are being oppressed due to you being so dominutive and how your
natural habit is being destroyed by evil farmers who keep cutting down those big leafy vegetables
you sleep under.
----------------------------------------
"harv" <harv*no_spam*@spininternet.com> wrote in message news:3ea2bcad_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
> Watch out for Randy. He's liable to see you coming and drop the BIG ONE! "Don" <dizone1@lycos.com>
> wrote in message news:bf9a2acd.0304170801.b5c5e12@posting.google.com...
> > I think all short riders should gang up on Lightning and demand that they sell the small P-38 at
> > the same price as the larger ones. There is no legitimate reason for the discrimination. Once a
> > welding jig is made for the small frames the amount of work is the same. Lightning already has
> > the welding jig.
> >
> > Discriminatory pricing is also extremely bad marketing. I guess the Lightning reputation for not
> > caring what customers think is well deserved. If they hear enough complaints and lose enough
> > sales then maybe they will rethink their policy.
> >
> > Taller riders in search of a worthy cause are welcome to join the protest/boycott. Afterwards we
> > are all going to Randy Newman's house and kick him in the shins until he is black-and-blue.
> > Volunteers needed to bring brownies and hot chocolate.

2nd line from the end should be natural habitat not natural habit grrrrr
-------------------------
"Joshua Goldberg" <salmagundi@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:OuCoa.538$Zj2.66355@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I thought Randy Newman died a few years ago...or was that Alfred J.? hmmm a boycott of Lightning
> Recumbents by the wee little folk....it just might work. In this age with half the population
> trying to appear politically correct and the other half are lining up to see buxom lesbian
> wrestlers fighting in a pool of Jell-O, no company wants to be labelled as discriminatory against
> dwarfs. My wife btw is a Dwarf at 63 1/2 inches tall. I read somewhere that to be
a
> legal dwarf you had to be under 64 inches....did wonder if there are
illegal
> dwarfs or is it dwarves. Lightning could use the free publicity, get a bunch of angry dwarves with
> picket signs marching up and down the street all signing the Oompah song from Willy Wonka. You
> could make a mint touring America on daytime
talkshows
> and talking about how your people are being oppressed due to you being so dominutive and how your
> natural habit is being destroyed by evil farmers
who
> keep cutting down those big leafy vegetables you sleep under.
> ----------------------------------------
> "harv" <harv*no_spam*@spininternet.com> wrote in message
> news:3ea2bcad_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
> > Watch out for Randy. He's liable to see you coming and drop the BIG ONE! "Don"
> > <dizone1@lycos.com> wrote in message news:bf9a2acd.0304170801.b5c5e12@posting.google.com...
> > > I think all short riders should gang up on Lightning and demand that they sell the small P-38
> > > at the same price as the larger ones. There is no legitimate reason for the discrimination.
> > > Once a welding jig is made for the small frames the amount of work is the same. Lightning
> > > already has the welding jig.
> > >
> > > Discriminatory pricing is also extremely bad marketing. I guess the Lightning reputation for
> > > not caring what customers think is well deserved. If they hear enough complaints and lose
> > > enough sales then maybe they will rethink their policy.
> > >
> > > Taller riders in search of a worthy cause are welcome to join the protest/boycott. Afterwards
> > > we are all going to Randy Newman's house and kick him in the shins until he is black-and-blue.
> > > Volunteers needed to bring brownies and hot chocolate.
> >
>

"Joshua Goldberg" <salmagundi@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<OuCoa.538$Zj2.66355@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> I thought Randy Newman died a few years ago...
[...]
> > "Don" <dizone1@lycos.com> wrote in message
> > news:bf9a2acd.0304170801.b5c5e12@posting.google.com...
> > > I think all short riders should gang up on Lightning and demand that they sell the small P-38
> > > at the same price as the larger ones. There is no legitimate reason for the discrimination.
> > > Once a welding jig is made for the small frames the amount of work is the same. Lightning
> > > already has the welding jig.
[...] Another Joshua subject change... I have no idea where this thread started...

Anyway, most builders tend to do stuff in batches; cut a bunch of tubes in a batch, do this set of
joints in a batch, then that set... It probably is not worth it to do a batch of small frames. There
probably isn't that much demand. So it probably _does_ cost more to do small frames.

FWIW Vision has a small SWB:

http://www.visionrecumbents.com/BikesR40SmallFrame.html

But really, I think a LWB, possibly one designed for a child, would work best for the truely short
because you can get the seat and BB lower.

Randy Newman is alive and reasonably well and still writing music for the movies, As far as I know.

John Riley

> Another Joshua subject change... I have no idea where this thread started... John Riley
I think the subject line was originally Short bentriders-not Dwarf and the person was Harv

The plural is "dwarfs" in ordinary English but "dwarves" if you are
J.R.R.Tolkien.

J.S.

> From: "Joshua Goldberg" <salmagundi@sympatico.ca> Organization: Bell Sympatico Newsgroups:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:32:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Dwarf
> bentriders-What do you ride?
>
>> Another Joshua subject change... I have no idea where this thread started... John Riley
> I think the subject line was originally Short bentriders-not Dwarf and the person was Harv

An insensitive Joshua Goldberg coopted this thread elsewhere with a crude attempt at humor and no
useful information. Several posts followed that brought up issues I would like to respond to but I
refuse to add to Joshua's thread so I respond here where the real discussion started.

It was mentioned that making small batches of a specific frame size may be more expensive. Possibly
but not $220 more expensive. There are also ways around that for a company that sells as many bikes
as Lightning. You build a batch and then hang on to them until needed. Lightning does not charge one
penny more for the XL P-38s. How many of that size do they sell? I have never seen one. They fit
riders up to 6'8". Most riders that size feel more comfortable on TE or GRR or similar bike. I bet
the tubes for the XL cost more than for the small.

The low seat of the P-38 is excellent for small riders. They are a prime market target yet Lightning
choses to discriminate with pricing.

Another poster suggested buying a childs bike. Well, DUH. I only know of one company selling
children recumbents. The size limit is
5. with no weight limit mentioned. And that is not even the point. I am an adult. I deserve an adult
bike with adult quality components and a choice of frames/companies at the same price that
someone taller pays. I am 5.3" with short legs but I am not outside what small women might ride.
There is a significant market for small frames. I did not start this thread. Someone else looking
for small frames for a couple of friends did. I am not alone. I just think Lightning is making a
big mistake by discriminating with their pricing.

Moi....insensitive?? I was taking a shot at the Boycott suggestion, not taking a shot at the problem
of the price difference for the height challenged rider. My humour is something of a mystery to
many...even for me sometimes.
-------------------------------------
"Don" <dizone1@lycos.com> wrote in message news:bf9a2acd.0304211647.3be7d53f@posting.google.com...
> An insensitive Joshua Goldberg coopted this thread elsewhere with a crude attempt at humor and no
> useful information. Several posts followed that brought up issues I would like to respond to but I
> refuse to add to Joshua's thread so I respond here where the real discussion started.
>
> It was mentioned that making small batches of a specific frame size may be more expensive.
> Possibly but not $220 more expensive. There are also ways around that for a company that sells as
> many bikes as Lightning. You build a batch and then hang on to them until needed. Lightning does
> not charge one penny more for the XL P-38s. How many of that size do they sell? I have never seen
> one. They fit riders up to 6'8". Most riders that size feel more comfortable on TE or GRR or
> similar bike. I bet the tubes for the XL cost more than for the small.
>
> The low seat of the P-38 is excellent for small riders. They are a prime market target yet
> Lightning choses to discriminate with pricing.
>
> Another poster suggested buying a childs bike. Well, DUH. I only know of one company selling
> children recumbents. The size limit is
> 5. with no weight limit mentioned. And that is not even the point. I am an adult. I deserve an
> adult bike with adult quality components and a choice of frames/companies at the same price
> that someone taller pays. I am 5.3" with short legs but I am not outside what small women might
> ride. There is a significant market for small frames. I did not start this thread. Someone else
> looking for small frames for a couple of friends did. I am not alone. I just think Lightning is
> making a big mistake by discriminating with their pricing.

Neither my wife(5'9") or myself(6'2") have a problem with height on bikes but I wonder at the
marketing of the Bent manufactures to not include a significant portion of the population. It seems
that anyone under 5'6" is having trouble fitting on bents without some consessions. This size
includes the majority of American woman (ave. ~5'4") and many men (ave. ~5'10"). I am surprised
there has not been a more concerted effort to design quality bikes for this population. My guess is
that most designers to this point have designed bikes they like to ride. Most SWBs will not scale to
a smaller size without reducing the tire size. I think the SWB manufactures will need to use 16"
(349) tires to accomadate smaller people which means having different components in addition to
different frames. I guess I am basically saying that to make a good SWB designed for smaller people
someone needs a new design. I really hope one of the manufactures will fill this market void. Craig
Optima Baron

ICE has the Trice Pixie, a trike specifically designed for the more compact rider. See
www.ice.hpv.co.uk. At 5'7.5" tall, 125-130lb, inseam about 31" I was on the borderline top end of
fitting a Pixie, so I went for the Micro instead. It fits like a glove.

SteveC

"cbb" <cbmabaker@excite.com> wrote in message news:aa193f37.0304220617.65deb37@posting.google.com...
> Neither my wife(5'9") or myself(6'2") have a problem with height on bikes but I wonder at the
> marketing of the Bent manufactures to not include a significant portion of the population. It
> seems that anyone under 5'6" is having trouble fitting on bents without some consessions. ...

Lets clairify.... ok guys? "Both feet flat on the ground" (in my opinion), means the butt is still
comfortably seated. At 5ft-5in., I cannot enjoy bents with seats much taller than 20". Some of the
wonderful machines suggested exceed this magic number and are simply NOT suitable for shorter legged
riders. The GRR/Tour Easy, for example is 22" and the RANS V2 is 19". "Frequent tippy-toeing" not
long induces painful muscle strain, but is obviously VERY unsafe - especially on loose surfaces.


> "cbb" <cbmabaker@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:aa193f37.0304220617.65deb37@posting.google.com...
> > Neither my wife(5'9") or myself(6'2") have a problem with height on bikes but I wonder at the
> > marketing of the Bent manufactures to not include a significant portion of the population. It
> > seems that anyone under 5'6" is having trouble fitting on bents without some consessions. ...