Speedplay Frog troubles

Preface note: I have exhausted every avenue with Speedplay. I am not trying to trash them, but raise
a bit of awareness of my trouble with them. I also am posting this to some other boards I
participate on so sorry for cross posting.

I have had my Speedplay Frogs for less than a year. I do all the recommended service for them with
dry lube, etc. In that time, I have gone through three pairs of cleats. I thought this was the
natural route for the pedals, but I have not heard anything else that someone has gone through so
many. Speedplay's original take on it when I first voiced concern was that I was clipping in wrong.
The denied that my particular pedal might be defective.

Yesterday, I received a grease gun from them that I had ordered. The pedals are under their
recommended 2,000 mile greasing. I shot grease into the pedals and the grease came out by the crown
in a now apparent crack in the body.

I called Speedplay. Now they tell me the pedals might be defective but they cannot replace them. I
need to buy a new overhaul kit for $45. I could ship them in but they could not tell me when I would
get them back. They reiterated that the best idea would be to overhaul them.

So, let's tally this based on what I have spent and what they are proposing:

$25(3)+$45= $120 (almost a new set of pedals!)

My gripe is that I pointed out after 1, 2 & 3 cleat replacements that something was not right. I am
a rider who rides 12-15mph on the road in fair to good conditions. No rain riding by choice. I think
all aspects of this pedal should have lasted longer.

I am now planning to order Bebops for my bike. Many have reported they are an improvement on Frogs.

So any opinions or advice on Bebops over Frogs?

Derek

Get Shimano SPD's, they last forever.

John

"Derek Swift" <bentcruiser@care2.com> wrote in message
news:20030328073502756-0600@news.vigoris.net...
> Preface note: I have exhausted every avenue with Speedplay. I am not trying to trash them, but
> raise a bit of awareness of my trouble with them. I also am posting this to some other boards I
> participate on so sorry for cross posting.
>
> I have had my Speedplay Frogs for less than a year. I do all the recommended service for them with
> dry lube, etc. In that time, I have gone through three pairs of cleats. I thought this was the
> natural route for the pedals, but I have not heard anything else that someone has gone through so
> many. Speedplay's original take on it when I first voiced concern was that I was clipping in
> wrong. The denied that my particular pedal might be defective.
>
> Yesterday, I received a grease gun from them that I had ordered. The pedals are under their
> recommended 2,000 mile greasing. I shot grease into the pedals and the grease came out by the
> crown in a now apparent crack in the body.
>
> I called Speedplay. Now they tell me the pedals might be defective but they cannot replace them. I
> need to buy a new overhaul kit for $45. I could ship them in but they could not tell me when I
> would get them back. They reiterated that the best idea would be to overhaul them.
>
> So, let's tally this based on what I have spent and what they are proposing:
>
> $25(3)+$45= $120 (almost a new set of pedals!)
>
> My gripe is that I pointed out after 1, 2 & 3 cleat replacements that something was not right. I
> am a rider who rides 12-15mph on the road in fair to good conditions. No rain riding by choice. I
> think all aspects of this pedal should have lasted longer.
>
> I am now planning to order Bebops for my bike. Many have reported they are an improvement
> on Frogs.
>
> So any opinions or advice on Bebops over Frogs?
>
> Derek

> I am now planning to order Bebops for my bike. Many have reported they are an improvement
> on Frogs.

I have not used Frogs, but I ordered Bebops after trying many variations on SPDs. I have been very
happy with them. Bebops are bullet proof and IMHO the extra float is ideal for preventing knee
problems. They are also zero maintenance. My only (very mild) complaint is that the cleat juts out
from the bottom of the shoe making walking easy outside, but destructive of floors inside :-)

Andy (Rans Vivo)

I had inconsistent engage and release with bebops while on tour. If I had just walked on grass, they
were fine. If I had walked on gravel, they were a problem. I now use SPD's. No trouble so far.

John Riley

>"Derek Swift" <bentcruiser@care2.com> wrote in message
>news:20030328073502756-0600@news.vigoris.net...

>> I have had my Speedplay Frogs for less than a year. I do all the recommended service for them
>> with dry lube, etc. In that time, I have gone through three pairs of cleats. I thought this was
>> the natural route for the pedals, but I have not heard anything else that someone has gone
>> through so many. Speedplay's original take on it when I first voiced concern was that I was
>> clipping in wrong. The denied that my particular pedal might be defective.
>>
>> Yesterday, I received a grease gun from them that I had ordered. The pedals are under their
>> recommended 2,000 mile greasing. I shot grease into the pedals and the grease came out by the
>> crown in a now apparent crack in the body.
>>
>> I called Speedplay. Now they tell me the pedals might be defective but they cannot replace them.
>> I need to buy a new overhaul kit for $45. I could ship them in but they could not tell me when I
>> would get them back. They reiterated that the best idea would be to overhaul them.

I've had good luck with my Frogs, and just replaced my first set of cleats after about 7000 miles.

How were the cleats wearing out? What was the symptom? As for there being a crack in the body,
that's a possibility that could let dirt and water get into the bearings. But I can't see how it
could cause the cleats to wear out.

Could you explain a bit more what the problem was?

Steve Christensen

> Could you explain a bit more what the problem was?

The mushroom looking heads on the cleat broke.

Derek

Derek,

I have had my Speedplay Frogs on my recumbent and also on one of my mountain bikes for the past 3
years. Most of my mileage has been on the recumbent with about 5600 miles during that time period. I
believe I have greased the Frogs perhaps 3 times in that period. The only problem I have ever had is
the 2-3 times when I have stuck my shoes into muddy/grass type stuff. Then the Frogs tend not to
function very well. However, because the Frogs have a rather flat surface, I have been able to pedal
without locking the foot if that seemed the better option until I returned to the car. Of course, if
I wasn't stubborn and took the time to clear the shoe cleat with some water, then I would have no
problems at all.

It is unfortunate that Speedplay was not understanding enough to accept the pedals back for at least
an assessment and then decide what to do about them. Many quality manufacturers usually stand by
their products. The extreme case is the helmet manufacturers that will replace your helmet even
after a year or so if you damaged it in an accident. They replace it under their "No Fault Crash
Protection Program".

I have had good service from my Frogs and just about all bike products that I own. Some of the few
items that I had a problem with, the manufacturers stood by their products: Many years ago, I
damaged a Louis Garneau $90 helmet in a crash with asphalt. It was almost a year old. They told me
to send it to them and they would send me a new one free of charge. Received the new helmet and I
was real happy with their service.

About a year ago, I had a relatively new 20" Conti Grand Prix tire that blew out thru the sidewall.
It seemed to have separated along the wire bead. I called the Continental USA distributor and they
told me to send it to them and they would most likely replace it for me. That they did.

Separate story from bikes but interesting and best case of customer loyalty:

Many years ago, I was installing a basktball backboard, support and new pole into concrete alongside
my house driveway. I wanted only the best for a backboard and my search wound up involving
purchasing an Acrylic Backboard, overhanging support bracket and pole special ordered by a sporting
goods store. There is alot more detail to this story but the result was that the replacement
backboard they sent (first one had a crack in it) had the mounting holes drilled in exactly 180
degrees off. (They had either predrilled the holes and then welded the vertical supports in upside
down or drilled the holes exactly opposite to the right way.) In any case, I talked directly to
their technical department (makers of Harvard/Spaulding Equipment). From my description, they
understood and believed what I had on hand was faulty. They tod me they wereshipping meirect a brand
new ($200+) Acrylic Backboard. I asked them how should I ship the reject one back to them ? They
indicated it would be expensive to send it back, took my word on the defect and told me to do what I
wanted with the reject
- fix it or donate it to someone ! UNBELIEVABLE !!

Larry Raphael Barcroft Dakota #02, Metallic Blue Oakton, Va

Derek Swift <bentcruiser@care2.com> wrote in message
news:<20030328073502756-0600@news.vigoris.net>...
> Preface note: I have exhausted every avenue with Speedplay. I am not trying to trash them, but
> raise a bit of awareness of my trouble with them. I also am posting this to some other boards I
> participate on so sorry for cross posting.
>
> I have had my Speedplay Frogs for less than a year. I do all the recommended service for them with
> dry lube, etc. In that time, I have gone through three pairs of cleats. I thought this was the
> natural route for the pedals, but I have not heard anything else that someone has gone through so
> many. Speedplay's original take on it when I first voiced concern was that I was clipping in
> wrong. The denied that my particular pedal might be defective.
>
> Yesterday, I received a grease gun from them that I had ordered. The pedals are under their
> recommended 2,000 mile greasing. I shot grease into the pedals and the grease came out by the
> crown in a now apparent crack in the body.
>
> I called Speedplay. Now they tell me the pedals might be defective but they cannot replace them. I
> need to buy a new overhaul kit for $45. I could ship them in but they could not tell me when I
> would get them back. They reiterated that the best idea would be to overhaul them.
>
> So, let's tally this based on what I have spent and what they are proposing:
>
> $25(3)+$45= $120 (almost a new set of pedals!)
>
> My gripe is that I pointed out after 1, 2 & 3 cleat replacements that something was not right. I
> am a rider who rides 12-15mph on the road in fair to good conditions. No rain riding by choice. I
> think all aspects of this pedal should have lasted longer.
>
> I am now planning to order Bebops for my bike. Many have reported they are an improvement
> on Frogs.
>
> So any opinions or advice on Bebops over Frogs?
>
> Derek

Derek, seems like you got a bad pair of Frogs. I love mine, wouldn't use any other pedal, but I am
ashamed at Speedplay for basically 'sticking' you. Chas

The advice to toss your froggies and buy SPDs is as silly as me telling someone who likes their
Shimanos to buy froggies. Most of us buy Speedplays because of the cleat pattern or the float, not
because they are any better or worse to maintain, longer lasting, or the manufacturer is more or
less reasonable when it comes to defective merchandise.

Umm, that's not what I wanted to say at all. My froggies have got almost 7 thousand on them. I love
'em. The cleats are great and my wrench tells me there are at least five thousand more miles in them
if I'm careful, whatever that means.

So I don't think you can dismiss the company or their products based on your experience any more
than you can trash Microsoft because ... well, actually, I insist you trash Microsoft about
annything anytime, for all the good it will do.

Did you like the performance of the pedals? Buy another set. I doubt you'll have the same problems.
If you were dissatisfied with the feel and performance of your froggies, try any of the dozens of
other pedals. But you could just as likely have the same or a worse experience, yes?

david boise ID

Odd how many people have 6-7k miles on their Frogs, mine are upto 6600 and working well. Only
problem was early when I lost a screw holding the cleat on (twice!) and went to high strength
threadlock. I called cust service at Speedplay as it turned out the cleat screws were oddsized
flathead 5mm screws. Local sources had different form factor. Speedplay sent out a packet of 8
screws by return mail no charge. Not the same as warranty on the pedal though I haven't checked what
their warranty is. Perhaps penny wise and pound foolish on their part to suggest a rebuild kit at
your expense. Bebops have equally fierce advocates as the Frog devotees. Have you considered
Eggbeaters? Steve

Derek Swift <bentcruiser@care2.com> wrote in message
news:<20030328073502756-0600@news.vigoris.net>...
> Preface note: I have exhausted every avenue with Speedplay. I am not trying to trash them, but
> raise a bit of awareness of my trouble with them. I also am posting this to some other boards I
> participate on so sorry for cross posting.
>
> I have had my Speedplay Frogs for less than a year. I do all the recommended service for them with
> dry lube, etc. In that time, I have gone through three pairs of cleats. I thought this was the
> natural route for the pedals, but I have not heard anything else that someone has gone through so
> many. Speedplay's original take on it when I first voiced concern was that I was clipping in
> wrong. The denied that my particular pedal might be defective.
>
> Yesterday, I received a grease gun from them that I had ordered. The pedals are under their
> recommended 2,000 mile greasing. I shot grease into the pedals and the grease came out by the
> crown in a now apparent crack in the body.
>
> I called Speedplay. Now they tell me the pedals might be defective but they cannot replace them. I
> need to buy a new overhaul kit for $45. I could ship them in but they could not tell me when I
> would get them back. They reiterated that the best idea would be to overhaul them.
>
> So, let's tally this based on what I have spent and what they are proposing:
>
> $25(3)+$45= $120 (almost a new set of pedals!)
>
> My gripe is that I pointed out after 1, 2 & 3 cleat replacements that something was not right. I
> am a rider who rides 12-15mph on the road in fair to good conditions. No rain riding by choice. I
> think all aspects of this pedal should have lasted longer.
>
> I am now planning to order Bebops for my bike. Many have reported they are an improvement
> on Frogs.
>
> So any opinions or advice on Bebops over Frogs?
>
> Derek

I have 25,000 miles on my frogs and they have worked quite well. The main thing I like about them is
that they always release without any hang ups as there is no machanical release, the cleat just
slides off the end of the pedal ridge. The ability to lube the bearings with a grease gun is also
great. Pedal maintence is often the most neglected part of the bike. The only problem I have had is
difficult engagement after walking in a lot of dirt. Cleaning the pedal will fix this quickly.

My LBS doesn't like dealing with Speedplay as they won't sell him only one set of pedals or cleats;
they want him to buy several sets. Maybe Speedplay needs to hire a good PR man.

BTW, Speedplay has a new Frog cleat, the Frog ll. Does anybody know anything about them?

Fastnorman

In article <f0fbf4aa.0303282315.67e6607e@posting.google.com>, Fastnorman@oregonfast.net says...
>
>BTW, Speedplay has a new Frog cleat, the Frog ll. Does anybody know anything about them?

I bought sets of the new cleats for both pairs of cycling shoes. The new cleats are stainless so
they won't rust. They also have ridges in place of the little mushrooms on the side. The biggest
change is that the rear cam now has a set screw inside, so that you can easily adjust the clearance
to keep the fit tight as it begins to wear. The old cleat had an adjustment supposedly built into
the eccentric rear cam, but I could never even get the thing to move at all.

BUT, the new cleats had a problem with the little plate in front that depresses to allow entry. The
new cleats had a bit of a lip on this plate that would catch when you tried to depress it. I was
able to grind the lip down with a dremel tool and it's fine now, but it took me a while to figure
out while the new cleats made it so hard to clip in.

Steve Christensen

Derek Swift wrote:
> Preface note: I have exhausted every avenue with Speedplay. I am not trying to trash them, but
> raise a bit of awareness of my trouble with them. I also am posting this to some other boards I
> participate on so sorry for cross posting......
>
>

I purchased a pair of Frog pedals last fall and had problems with one cleat not staying locked in.
It was an obvious defect with the cleat. I had 4 phone calls back to Speedplay with no resolution. I
was becoming very frustrated and ready to give up on the company. I finally decided to escalate the
communication and spoke with a design engineer. He was very apologetic and immediately forwarded the
part I needed. He really bent over backward to make it right. He did offer that sometimes the first
line tech support staff are a bit too conservative in resolving the problem.

If you have not already done this I would encourage you to ask to speak to a higher power at
speedplay.

Don, Bacchetta Giro

Don <dcarden4@cox.com> wrote in message news:<3E8658C3.4040306@cox.com>...
> Derek Swift wrote:
> > Preface note: I have exhausted every avenue with Speedplay. I am not trying to trash them, but
> > raise a bit of awareness of my trouble with them. I also am posting this to some other boards I
> > participate on so sorry for cross posting......
> >
> >
>
> I purchased a pair of Frog pedals last fall and had problems with one cleat not staying locked in.
> It was an obvious defect with the cleat. I had 4 phone calls back to Speedplay with no resolution.
> I was becoming very frustrated and ready to give up on the company. I finally decided to escalate
> the communication and spoke with a design engineer. He was very apologetic and immediately
> forwarded the part I needed. He really bent over backward to make it right. He did offer that
> sometimes the first line tech support staff are a bit too conservative in resolving the problem.
>
> If you have not already done this I would encourage you to ask to speak to a higher power at
> speedplay.
>
> Don, Bacchetta Giro

I know nothing about Frog pedals. I use Time MTB pedals on all my bikes and they are maintenence
free, provide 6 degrees of rotational float and some lateral float as well. You can even get a pair
with large platforms which are designed for downhill racers. Other than plugging Time pedals I have
a question: Is there something peculiar about recumbent cycling that would motivate the majority of
people on this usenet group to favor Beebops, Frogs and Eggbeaters? My LBS recommended Time as the
best for ease of use and float and they also sell Frogs, Shimano SPD, and Eggbeaters. I haven't been
disappointed.

Gene (BikeE NX, Burley Taiko, and a couple of DF's)

I have been riding with frogs on all my bikes for a couple of years now, and have also had some
problems. Not enough to stop me from using them.

- Cleat wear - The old frog cleats have those two little doughnut shaped metal pieces on the sides
that will wear out VERY quickly if you walk on pavement or concrete with them. Once they wear out,
you will no longer be able to clip in. I carry a pair of flip-flop sandals to change into in case
I need to walk on any hard surface. I haven't tried the new and improved cleats yet, but heard
good things about them.

- Cracked shell - Every single frog I've own has cracked the shell. It doesn't appear to interfere
with performance. But it does make it messy when greasing. I started to use very thick automotive
teflon grease in order to minimize leaks.

- Broken limit tab - That's the little plastic tab that limits the amount of inwards float. I've
broken three of them. I hear that some riders like to file them off on purpose in order to add
more float. Personally, I prefer to ride with them, since it keeps my ankle bone from hitting the
cranks, and I find it easier to push when I can somewhat lock my foot in position.

Incidentally, since the frogs have a warranty, my local bike shop has replaced all my broken ones
through the years with no questions asked. I never had to deal directly with Speedplay.

Good luck and cheers.