Negative press

Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved trail
that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent
car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?

----------------------------------------------------------
September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper since 1883"

Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.

Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.

By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff

Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still fail to heed local stop
signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling
across Western Avenue without stopping.

Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style bikers than defiant
teenagers.

Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the ditch to avoid careless
cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the intersection of Terminal and East River roads.

Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection outlet counting the
number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping. Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road without
stopping, or even looking to see if any cars are coming Bartel said.

"They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys in the spandex pants and
the funny shoes that want to look like Lance Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large the
majority of the people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand miles they
can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north on some endless rail line, but
they're not."

The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road from unmarked to 35 mph,
partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.

Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the trail, but even the stop
signs on the roads.

"There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck isn't going to stop, it
can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It' s asinine."

The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.

Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring he issues standard
warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port
Washington, regularly garnering complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other rude
biker behaviors.

The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their ride in Mequon,
McCormick said.

"We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don 't obey signals and so
forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing issue for several years with us, so as soon as we
get the first complaint of the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they come up
and let them know any complaints will result in citations."

There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly because the warnings have
worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed
by a deputy.

McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols along Terminal and East
River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from residents or the county.

County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints about bicyclists
neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River roads intersection, but said he has
observed infractions himself and is aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of the trail.

The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road at that stretch in the
town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington, and Struck said preliminary indications are
favorable for the first grant.

The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail to be taken off-road at
the midpoint along terminal between East River Road and Highway W. It would continue over I-43 to
where it picks up as an off-road trail now.

Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail lets out onto Terminal
Road would remain largely unchanged.

Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday regarding possible
enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.

------------------------------------

"Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved trail
> that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have very
> infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?
>

Obey the traffic laws?

The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws. This Town Chairman is
providing moral justification to the bike-hostile motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of
us who wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using public roads. These types of
news stories are usually encouraged by groups that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for
motorists. They would like to change the law to get bikes off the roads.

Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate of doing just that.
This type of article does little to promote overall safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the
same roads. What is needed at the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The more important issue is the
one of raising awareness about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they wear funny
shoes. I'd like to see a healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
dubious situation.

"MLB" <mbradbury4@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns93F1CF7033F41mbradbury4comcastnet@206.127.4.25...
> "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>
> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved
> > trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have very
> > infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any
> > suggestions?
> >
>
> Obey the traffic laws?

I've been on both sides of this issue. Where I've almost gotten hit by cars but, I've almost hit a
bicyclist that ran a stop sign. He was lucky that there wasn't a car coming the other way on this
country road as that was the only direction I could go without hitting him. He came out when I was 2
car lengths or less away from the intersection doing the posted speed limit of 45 mph. I have also
seen it where the driver's of the cars were at fault. Boils down to, obey the law. If you stop, you
more and likely won't get hit but, if you run the stop sign or stop light (when red) and you get hit
whether that be by car or bike, your at fault. Unfortunately, whoever is on the bike is usually the
one that really pays for it.

Dave Harney wrote:

> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws. This Town Chairman is
> providing moral justification to the bike-hostile motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All
> of us who wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using public roads. These types
> of news stories are usually encouraged by groups that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for
> motorists. They would like to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate of doing just that.
> This type of article does little to promote overall safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the
> same roads. What is needed at the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The more important issue is
> the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they wear funny
> shoes. I'd like to see a healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in
> a dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" <mbradbury4@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns93F1CF7033F41mbradbury4comcastnet@206.127.4.25...
>> "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved
>> > trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have very
>> > infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any
>> > suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> Obey the traffic laws?

"Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:6Fv7b.5208$8q2.598@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws. This Town Chairman is
> providing moral justification to the bike-hostile motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All
> of us who wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using public roads. These types
> of news stories are usually encouraged by groups that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for
> motorists. They would like to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate of doing just that.
> This type of article does little to promote overall safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the
> same roads. What is needed at the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The more important issue is
> the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they wear funny
> shoes. I'd like to see a healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in
> a dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" <mbradbury4@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns93F1CF7033F41mbradbury4comcastnet@206.127.4.25...
>> "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
>>
>> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved
>> > trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have very
>> > infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any
>> > suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> Obey the traffic laws?
>
>

Well that's YOUR point. THEIR point seems to be that a percentage of bikers are blowing the stop
signs and causing problems with near misses. Near misses that are much liklier to kill the biker
than they are the driver. I'm not sure that the most important thing is raising awareness, vs
surviving the intersection.

I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the Editor" of some local news
papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a
hell of alot more courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes they
each wear. "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6Fv7b.5208$8q2.598@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile motorists who endanger our
> lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade"
> category. Currently, in Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by
groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would
like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall safety for cyclists and
> motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed
at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for motorists to slow down and
> some brush cleared for better visibility. The more important issue is the one of raising awareness
> about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" <mbradbury4@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns93F1CF7033F41mbradbury4comcastnet@206.127.4.25...
> > "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
> >
> > > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved
> > > trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have
> > > very infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any
> > > suggestions?
> > >
> >
> > Obey the traffic laws?

"pjclarkesq" skrev...
> I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the Editor" of some local news
> papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a
> hell of alot more courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes they
> each wear.

Well cardrivers always rag on bicycles and pedestrians. Pedestrians complain about cars and
bicycles... etc.

That being said I see a lot of bicycles blowing red lights (in Copenhagen) and violating other
trafficlaws. A large part of them are either bike messengers or people out excercising (as in lycra
and roadbike/MTB.) But these are probably a lost cause anyway no matter how many new restrictions
the council comes up with. It wont deter them.

cheers Mikael

"Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6Fv7b.5208$8q2.598@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile motorists who endanger our
> lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade"
> category. Currently, in Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by
groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would
like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.

I don't know a single state where a bicycle isn't considered a valid vehicle on a public road

> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall safety for cyclists and
> motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed
at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for motorists to slow down and
> some brush cleared for better visibility. The more important issue is the one of raising awareness
> about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a dubious situation.

None of those suggestions gets to the guts of the problem which is a few bikers are violating the
law, instead of better signs and clearing brush I'd think a traffic cop at those intersections
giving out tickets would cure the problem rather quickly

>
>
> "MLB" <mbradbury4@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns93F1CF7033F41mbradbury4comcastnet@206.127.4.25...
> > "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
> >
> > > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved
> > > trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have
> > > very infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any
> > > suggestions?
> > >
> >
> > Obey the traffic laws?

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:04:50 GMT, "Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote:

>The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws. This Town Chairman is
>providing moral justification to the bike-hostile motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of
>us who wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
>Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using public roads. These types
>of news stories are usually encouraged by groups that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for
>motorists. They would like to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
>Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate of doing just that.
>This type of article does little to promote overall safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the
>same roads. What is needed at the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
>motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The more important issue is
>the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they wear funny
>shoes. I'd like to see a healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
>dubious situation.
>

Maybe you can get some meber of your club (preferably retired - time consuming) to sit besides the
ominous crossing and do a real count of the bikers and their behaviour. So you have some numbers
for yourself together with a witness. BEst thing would be to do it for at least a whole week so you
can check for different behavior on weekends etc. My dad-in-law did this and it provided us with a
lot of ammo.

Greetings

I am a staunch advocate of cyclists observing traffic laws and I would suggest trying to present
compelling evidence that would encourage law enforcement to monitor the area that you are referring
to and encourage them to ticket the offending cyclists.

Lewis.

***************************

"Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...
> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved trail
> that reverts to public roads for a short distance. The public roads in question have very
> infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper since 1883"
>
>
>
> Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.
>
>
>
> Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.
>
>
>
> By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff
>
>
>
> Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still fail to heed local stop
> signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling
> across Western Avenue without stopping.
>
>
>
> Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style bikers than defiant
> teenagers.
>
>
>
> Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the ditch to avoid
> careless cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the intersection of Terminal and East
> River roads.
>
>
>
> Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection outlet counting the
> number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping. Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road
> without stopping, or even looking to see if any cars are coming Bartel said.
>
>
>
> "They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys in the spandex pants and
> the funny shoes that want to look like Lance Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large
> the majority of the people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand miles
> they can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north on some endless rail line,
> but they're not."
>
>
>
> The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road from unmarked to 35 mph,
> partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.
>
>
>
> Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the trail, but even the stop
> signs on the roads.
>
>
>
> "There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck isn't going to stop, it
> can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It' s asinine."
>
>
>
> The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.
>
>
>
> Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring he issues standard
> warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port
> Washington, regularly garnering complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other
> rude biker behaviors.
>
>
>
> The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their ride in Mequon,
> McCormick said.
>
>
>
> "We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don 't obey signals and
> so forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing issue for several years with us, so as soon
> as we get the first complaint of the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they
> come up and let them know any complaints will result in citations."
>
>
>
> There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly because the warnings have
> worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed
> by a deputy.
>
>
>
> McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols along Terminal and East
> River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from residents or the county.
>
>
>
> County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints about bicyclists
> neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River roads intersection, but said he has
> observed infractions himself and is aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of
> the trail.
>
>
>
> The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road at that stretch in the
> town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington, and Struck said preliminary indications are
> favorable for the first grant.
>
>
>
> The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail to be taken off-road
> at the midpoint along terminal between East River Road and Highway W. It would continue over I-43
> to where it picks up as an off-road trail now.
>
>
>
> Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail lets out onto Terminal
> Road would remain largely unchanged.
>
>
>
> Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday regarding possible
> enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------

Even handed enforcement of existing law? There are more motorists running stops and creating a
greater hazard than cyclists. Do they complain so of their own failings? I think not.

"Dave Harney" <daveharney@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_Zt7b.3900$8q2.2479@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and pissed). This is all about a nice paved trail
> that reverts to public roads for a short
distance.
> The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going
> to the board meeting - any suggestions?

Is there any way the meeting of the trail and the road could be redesigned so that the trail merged with the road, (like an entrance ramp) rather than coming to a T? Lots of times you have a trail coming up parrallel next to a road and then the trail does a 90 degree turn to T intersect with the road. I suppose that makes sense if half the cyclists are turning one way and half the other at the road, but this sounds like most would continue in one direction on the road to pick up the trail again later. In that case, a merge intersection might be better.

John Riley

We should all be staunch advocates of this. What I've noticed in my job driving my taxicab around
Fort Lauderdale is that the folks in their fancy clothes and on expensive bikes do obey the law,
while those who are pedaling as a result of a DUI, are on the wrong side of the road, or on the
sidewalk, and seem to be staring me down as I approach them, daring me to hit them, and they never
have lights at night.
--

Joel Wilson Fort Lauderdale
=========================================
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subscriber AI4I is always on the trailing edge of technology
=========================================
"Lewis Campbell" <limeylew@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e68f926d.0309100211.6a456d7e@posting.google.com...
> I am a staunch advocate of cyclists observing traffic laws and I would suggest trying to present
> compelling evidence that would encourage law enforcement to monitor the area that you are
> referring to and encourage them to ticket the offending cyclists.
>
> Lewis.
>
> ***************************

Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection with a stopsign for cyclists.
The funny thing was that there is only one or two intersections with stopsign for cyclists in the
whole 1 million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as example.

Here in Massachusetts USA no one seems to stop at stop signs. That bicyclist who is running the stop
sign on the bike is also doing it in a car.

Solution obey the traffic laws period.

"Markku Poysti" <ukram@puosu.dna.fi_nospam> wrote in message news:bjnbsg$v60$1@news1.songnet.fi...
> Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection with a stopsign for
> cyclists. The funny thing was that there is only one or two intersections with stopsign for
> cyclists in the whole 1 million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as example.