P-38 vs. Stealth/Phantom

Hello, All-- I have a Lightning Stealth (aka, Phantom) that's four years old and worn out. It needs
wheels, brakes, seat webbing, seat stays, some welding work on the frame, and paint, among other
things. For years, I've been considering an upgrade to a P-38, and if ever there was a time to do
it, it's now. Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes? Can anyone give me a comparison?
Here's what I've gathered so far:

(1) The frame and fork of the P-38 are 2.5 pounds lighter than the frame and fork of my Stealth.
Source: Tim at Lightning Cycle Dynamics.

(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs over sends a shock
through the frame and into the rider's bones. Source: Two different persons who test drove the
same P-38.

Can anyone help me with other comparison characteristics? Thanks in advance. --Chris

That's nonsense. I am 75 and loved my P-38. I moved on to a Ti Rush but that was not a reflection on
the P-38 XT, just a personal choice between two very different recumbents. The P-38 is very fast and
an excellent climber and a gave me a very good ride on decent trails and roads. It is NOT an
off-road bike, through. If I got another I'd get a Pantour front hub, just as I did on my Ti Rush.

--
Gator Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Chris Foreman" <Chris@Clemson.Edu> wrote in message
newsan.2003.10.12.19.30.02.18663@Clemson.Edu...
> (2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs over sends a shock
> through the frame and into the rider's bones. Source: Two different persons who test drove the
> same P-38.

> Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes?>>

Well, I test rode a 2000 Stealth and loved it so much I decided to spend the extra $$ for the P-38,
sight unseen.

>(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs
over sends a shock through the frame and into the rider's bones.>>

That was certainly true when the bike was shod with the original narrow Conti tires. I long ago
switched to a Comp Pool on the front, and a Conti Grand Prix 3000 (622-28) on the rear. Shock
through the frame was eliminated, and because of the wider, more stable tires, I actually ride
faster and with more confidence than I did before. If you order a P-38, get the base model. The
"performance wheel" option which includes the narrow fork precludes using a wider front tire. Read
the specs on the website very carefully! Good Luck, and don't pay any attention to the many
Lightning detractors. LOL!

Norm

akensmith@aol.com (Akensmith) wrote in message
news:<20031012181956.12785.00000260@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> > Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes?>>
>
> Well, I test rode a 2000 Stealth and loved it so much I decided to spend the extra $$ for the
> P-38, sight unseen.
>
> >(2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs
> over sends a shock through the frame and into the rider's bones.>>
>

I agree with Norm- I rode thousands of miles on a P-38 and never thought the ride was particularly
rough, but I never used a tire narrower than 28 mm on the rear. It also helps to replace the seat
foam with a Thermarest "Stadium Pad". Cushy!

Jeff

In article <pan.2003.10.12.19.30.02.18663@Clemson.Edu>, Chris@Clemson.Edu says...
> Hello, All-- I have a Lightning Stealth (aka, Phantom) that's four years old and worn out. It
> needs wheels, brakes, seat webbing, seat stays, some welding work on the frame, and paint, among
> other things.

IMO it probably needed new brakes 4 years ago.

> For years, I've been considering an upgrade to a P-38, and if ever there was a time to do it, it's
> now. Does anyone have experience with both of these bikes? Can anyone give me a comparison? Here's
> what I've gathered so far:

I have only test ridden the Stealth/Phantom so, my opinions are limited to P-38s. Although, 'out of
the box', I would not consider a Phantom except as a frame.

> (1) The frame and fork of the P-38 are 2.5 pounds lighter than the frame and fork of my Stealth.
> Source: Tim at Lightning Cycle Dynamics.

I think those 2.5 lbs that are shaved off are in the right places to translate into a faster bike.

> (2) The P-38 is extremely stiff; so much so, in fact, that every twig one runs over sends a shock
> through the frame and into the rider's bones. Source: Two different persons who test drove the
> same P-38.

Not true, In fact, I think just the opposite. While the frame may be stiff in a longitudinal
direction, the 'space-frame' triangulation allows for a lot of later flex. For example, if you grab
the back of the seat and shake the bike, it jiggles like Jell-O. If the angle of attack is good, I
usually hit RR tracks at full speed and hardly notice the bumps. I have ridden my bike on all kinds
of roads for 7-8 hours a day and have done this for 6-7 days in a row. I have not noticed any tiring
of my body due to bike induced shock. Just as I said in my preface, I can't comment authoratively on
the Phantom since I have only done test rides. I would not consider strongly any opinions of people
that have only 'test ride' experience.

And now for some 'warts': Someone mentioned swapping out the wimpy foam seat pad for a Thermarest
sport seat. This is perhaps one of the reasons I can ride 8 hours aday for days on end.

LCD brakes are crap. This is due in part to the mis match of the outmoded brake levers to the
Odyssey 'A' brakes. A P-38 H/B requires a specially bent lever to matck the curve of the H/B. This
is not a bad thing but the brake lever supplied with my P-38 (RitcheyLogic) were never satisfactory.
I have heard that the Tektro are not any better.

A P-38 with a 700c rear wheel gives very little clearance in between the chain stays for brake arms,
fenders or wide tires. The 26"(559) rear wheel has none of these problems.

The Performance option also puts a skinny fork on the front that limits tires choices to one and
only one tire (Conti GP)

Front Suspension is not worth the extra $350. Mine was DOA (not a rare occurance I understand) and
even when I had a functioning one, it did not seem to be that much better. I now have a
Non-Suspension Fork and really can't see any difference in comfort. IMO Suspension forks are
slower. I noticed a great jump in speed when I switched from a 16" sus=fork to a 20" non-sus fork.
(I will grant that some of this improvement may be attributed to the fact that 20" wheels are
faster that 16".

> Can anyone help me with other comparison characteristics? Thanks in advance. --Chris
>

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Cletus Lee wrote:
> ... LCD brakes are crap. This is due in part to the mis match of the outmoded brake levers to the
> Odyssey 'A' brakes. A P-38 H/B requires a specially bent lever to matck the curve of the H/B....

In addition, only some brakes [1] will fit properly on the front due to cable interference with
chain and/or the strut that braces the boom. I am aware of two P-38's where attempting a U-turn to
the right will apply the front brake.

[1] < http://www.lightningbikes.com/buying.htm >

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

In article <3F8B3B29.27B788F0@qconline.com>, tsherman@qconline.com says...
>
> Cletus Lee wrote:
> > ... LCD brakes are crap. This is due in part to the mis match of the outmoded brake levers to
> > the Odyssey 'A' brakes. A P-38 H/B requires a specially bent lever to matck the curve of the
> > H/B....
>
> In addition, only some brakes [1] will fit properly on the front due to cable interference with
> chain and/or the strut that braces the boom. I am aware of two P-38's where attempting a U-turn to
> the right will apply the front brake.
>
> [1] < http://www.lightningbikes.com/buying.htm >

Solved that problem by routing the cable in the style of Bacchetta and
CG.

http://www.clee.org/Cycling/images/V...FrontBrake.jpg

This is a Shimano XTR 2003 brakeset. The levers even have the distinctive LCD bend
http://www.clee.org/Cycling/images/V...trLeverLCD.JPG

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

My thanks to the many who helped me with this, both here in the list and by e-mail. I'm no longer
apprehensive about upgrading to a P-38, but I can't find any compelling reason to upgrade either.
I've decided to hold onto the Stealth for at least another year. --Chris