Do you use a protein supplement (eg protein shake) before and/or after training?

I use a protien supplement after riding. It's called prime rib. *drool* I take it with a carb supplement too, sometimes known as a baked potato.

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Is that anything like the roast lamb Jacques Anquetil used? Lost 4 minutes the following day as I recall.

So the general feeling around here is that a protein muscle growth or recovery supplement is not needed?

I wouldn't say that. Personally, I can never get into the habit of taking supplements. My 12 months supply of daily multi-vitamins is almost 3 years old now. I have a joint supplement for my knees (the real problem turned out to be seat height, not age) and I could never remember to take the damn stuff.

I think it would be helpful though. As for the prime rib, that's no joke. I used to do a 25 mi club ride, and oddly enough, my fastest time for that ride was the day after I had done a century ride, and I'd eaten a HUGE slab of prime rib that evening. Since eating something like that helps my recovery, it's probably logical that a protien supplement would work just as well, since it's probably the protien in the meat that's helping out in the end.

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I disagree one thousand percent! Protein is extremely necessary for recovery. Too many cyclists are so focused on carbs and electrolytes that they forget their muscles take a beating from a heavy demanding ride - especially leg muscles. Bring on the protein!!!

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If you've got the money, I've got the time!

Is it considered doping though in races? Whey protein supplements i mean.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a general feeling. What you will find is a vast gorge separating those who feel protein supplimentation is necessary and those who do not. I've seen several similar discussions and there are usually a few on the non-supplimentation side and at least twice as many on the pro-supplimentation side.

My feelings on the subject are based on the findings of several prominent nutritionists and a few facts about human physiology and digestion. The average diet in developed countries such as the United States already provides protein levels far in excess of what organizations such as the World Health Organization, the Food and Nutrition Board and the National Research Council have published as adequate for 98% of the population. Their figures range from 2½% of total calories to a maximum of 8% which includes a substantial buffer according to those posting the recommendations.

Since most people consume 20-30% of their calories from protein, supplimentation would seem to be a waste. Protein not used the day you ingest it will be stored as fat or excreted in the urine. There are some unsavory side-effects from continuing this process over decades but I'll not go into them here.

I'm sure several posts will follow which are in stark contrast to this.

i think you have misread that as protein
he was talking specificly about taking supplements in addition to your normal diet
unless youre vegetarian you probably get more then enough protein without even making an effort
and for vegetarians can easily do the same with a little extra care

it is very usefull, at least , that's my experience. .I've been using it for two months now, and it's the first time in years that i've managed to gain weight.. A couple of kilo's in fact.. Not only i've gained weight (pretty useless as such) but my power output has increased..And not a little bit.. In any case, more then the gain in weight, otherwise it would of course be useless...I'm rriving with much more power now..

Yes , it´s called meat you dope !

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during intense, endurance exercise, at the most extreme end (i.e., the Tour de France or similar) protein requirements are at the highest of any sport (including e.g., weights). These protein requirements are, at the upper end equal to ~2.0 g of protein per kg body mass, in other words a 70 kg person would require ~ 140 g of protein per day. During hard, regular endurance training of say 3-hrs/day the protein requirements are ~ 1.2 - 1.6 g/kg body mass/day, i.e., ~ 112 g/day. If you compare these two examples with carbohydrate requirements, then during extreme exercise, you'll need 10 - 12 g carb/kg body mass/day (~ 700 - 840 g/day) and 6 - 8 g/kg BM/ day (~ 420 - 560 g/day).

Thus, we can see that protein requirements compared to carbohydrate requirements are very small. The protein requirements can easily be met by a normal mixed diet, including a vegetarian diet. ACSM advice in their review paper on athletic performance and nutrition states that supplemental protein isn't required (if body weight is being maintained or lost gradually), and in their review of supplemental proteins/amino acid supplements there was no benefit to these.

Additionally, much research has looked into the effects of protein/carb and carb and protein supplements for recovery. The majority of the research shows that ingesting ~1.0 to 1.5 g carb post exercise is the most beneficial regime. Additionally, Jentjens et al., 2001, shows that although protein intake with carbs post exercise increased the insulin response no further carbs were taken up when protein was co-ingested with carbs at 1.2 g/kg body mass.

Thus, protein requirements can easily be met by a normal mixed diet, supplemental protein isn't required unless maybe under extreme conditons (e.g., huge weight loss and extreme exercise).

Additionally, most people in western countries far exceed the recommended protein intake even for intense endurance exercise. in other words protein supplements are pretty much money down the toilet.

ric

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I have just started using a recovery protein powder that is taken with milk after a ride

Of course this is your choice and you're welcome to make it as are we all for ourselves. If you take a look at the post just above yours, by ricstern, you may find that the money you're spending on protein powder could be better spent elsewhere. It appears ricstern has a very keen understanding of human protein requirements as well as the requirements of other nutrients and perhaps we owe him a quick word of thanks for providing the information in an easy to understand form. Thanks ricstern.

If you take a look at what all that protein, (the milk plus the powder), will do to the pH level of your blood and the amount of calcium lost in correcting that altered, pH, you might determine that a loss of calcium is going to be a bigger worry than getting enough protein. You can probably save yourself some money, increase your calcium retention and still get all the protein your body needs by foregoing the protein powder and just eating a good, varied diet. But... of course it's your body and your choice.

I used to make protein shakes after a ride, but then I got out of it for some reason. Those shakes were awesome after a ride. bannanas, blueberries, whey protein, and milk. Can't beat it.

Having said this, when I did eat these shakes, it wasn't something that I relied on or consumed in excess so I don't think I would have ever been deficient in calcium...but maybe.