Do we hate cars? - Page 3

Gave up smoking in '94, and gave up driving in 97.

In retrospect, there are many similarities between these experiences. When you're doing it, you think you can't live without it - maybe even convince yourself that it enriches your life experience. But when you stop, you realise what you were missing.

Where you from that allows you to stop driving? Here in Fla. is an necessity. Mass transportation is almost non-existent. Even sidewalks are an uncommon treat! Most neighborhoods nowadays do not incorporate sidewalks in many streets. Actually you have to walk on the road!!! In my neigborhood for instance, the main roads only have one sided sidewalks. If you cross the street to go to a store. You'll end up walking on the road or near to it to avoid muddy trails. I used to commute by bike, but then they moved me to where I am 20 miles away by interstate road and bridges that do not allow bicycles. For me to get around safely now, it would take me approx 40 miles of backroads...one way! And still I am taking high risks in some areas.

It gets worse. Think of where they get the electricity to power the hybrid cars. Then think of the energy it takes to make the cars, for the lifespan of each car - totally pathetic. It's an environmental disaster no matter which way you look at it - just marginally less worse than combustion engine vehicles.

The real fundamental flaw with cars is that, environmental issues aside, cars are just not safe at speed. You could be a perfect driver, and then one day whammo, someone front-end's you and kills you both. Train accidents attract a lot of media attention when they happen (which is rarely), but it is cars that really kill, slowly, steadily, and reliably on a daily basis. And don't forget - for every road death, there are hundreds of injuries, and maybe thousands of near misses.

Cars are the ultimate zero-sum game. Great (for you) if you are the only one who has one, but public enemy number one if everyone has one. I really enjoy trying to imagine how a car-free city would work. It's not impossible - think Venice. I would love to speak with someone who works in a hospital emergency ward in Venice. I wonder what they do to pass the time! Imagine comparing it to the emergency ward in a similar sized hospital in any city in the US. I bet you the contrast would be stark.

Interesting you should say that. You know, when you think about it, sidewalks are really only there for the benefit of cars. They want to go fast, and they don't want anyone in their way - if they do, they are fair game. An idea that is beginning to gain currency in many places is that roads should be made WITHOUT sidewalks, and the speed of the MV traffic kept right down. That way drivers have no excuse but to be careful.

If you are afraid of the cars on faster roads (with good reason) I suggest you get a good blackburn mirror that sticks out the side of your handlebars. It tends to keep drivers a little further away. Danlite is great at night too. Another trick that's a bit goofy, but seems to work when traveling along roads with really fast motor traffic, is the flag sticking out of a pannier trick - tilted slightly roadside. Looks a bit goofy, but hey it works.

The point is, it doesn't matter where you live - it's more of a lifestyle choice. But next time I move house, I will never buy anywhere too far out in the 'burbs.

I think you are confused with hybrid technology. Electricity is generated by the gas engine itself. The gas engine charges the battery allowing part of the cruising distance beng powered by the elecrical motor. It appears to be more efficient and less polluting. However , I do agree that if you add maintenance to the cost equation, a hybrid might cost more than to operate a pure gas engine vehicle per mile. Of course the carmakers will try to sell it by its "gas saving" abilities.
I do not think it will take any more energy to produce a hybrid than conventional gas car. It pretty much uses the same manufacturing technology. Batteries are recycleable just the same as your car batteries. This is where technology needs a lot of improvement though and is a significant cost driver for the operator.
If resale value is low (low projected trade in value) then it makes sense to wait and buy it used! (I am) This will lower significantly initial cost thus lowering your total life cycle costs.

Nah....I will not share the road as a pedestrian. I have a 4 yr old and that to me would be too risky. I require a healthy separation between me and my family and 2+ tons of steel. And ,no offense, but whoever told you that the reason they are not building sidewalks because it teaches driver to drive more conservatively, was selling you a bag of bull manure! It is cost driven, the city does not want to pay for it! Besides, who would want to be the first batch guinea pigs to get mauled by cars before car drivers, perhaps, start getting it????!

- where does the gas come from? Unless I am mistaken extracting gas is often done in high coal burning facilities.
- Batteries are recycleable, tyres are recycleable, and so is the metal frame of the car, but think of the energy that goes into that process also, let alone the energy to make the thing in the first place.
- "more efficient" and "less polluting" are relative descriptions.
- this whole discussion ignores the fact that cars promote urban sprawl, which results in massive energy consumption compared to the higher density cities that are possible (and infinitely more enjoyable) without cars and the roadspace they need.

Hybrids are a complete bum steer feel good grope for survival by the car manufacturers. They are going to have to come up with something better than that to avoid going under.

Don't know where you live, but there are plenty of roads like this where I live. I also have young children, and we don't have much problem. Maybe it will take a while for drivers to learn that they don't own the road, but here they are generally very patient, and always quite slow.

Separation is more of a mirage than real safety. A few months ago I saw a dump truck cut across the footpath and take out a tree that must have been over a foot thick.

On your previous post. (we are having a time delayed posting), OH! I thought you were comparing conventional gas car vs. hybrids. We it is true that no cars would be enviromentally better, but realistically it would be an economic nightmare. Alternatives are better than the usual ...and far more doable.

You are lucky that you can do that in your area. Don't know where it is...but if you can walk to anywhere and or ride safely that sounds nice.Florida,on the other hand, its sprawled.. that is reality. I live in Jacksonville considered one of the biggest cities not by population but by area covered. Only an efficient mass transportation would help. I hear you that developers should (and they are in some parts) develop more concentrated urban areas where commute is reduced, but this will affect a few only. I still prefer the option of walking on a walkway as far away fm car as possible, specialy on main thoroughfares. Can I still get killed by a car run amock? You bet, but at least I can reduce the chance of getting hit by somebody that oversteer/understeered just enough or miscalculated distance just enough. (My bet is that it happens more than cars running amock). Ever had a close call with a car side view mirror while riding??? I have, not fun.

I was down there for a conference about a year ago. My hotel was only about a mile from the conference site (right at the waterfront), and I had to take a cab every day because you can't get across the river on foot. Eight dollars each way for a distance I could have walked in 15 minutes.

Ryan,

Some links to sites you'll find interesting:

http://www.carfree.com/
http://www.worldcarfree.net/conference/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carfree_cities/
http://www.priorities.org/carfree.htm

Regards,

Steve

__________________
www.wheelism.co.uk - Keeping it wheel, every single day.

"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, January 18, 1896, Scientific American Magazine

I love cars, and I love driving. I drive a 2002 Firehawk (limited edition Firebird). I have found that when I'm in a bad mood, nothing cheers me up quicker than a generous application of throttle, or an on ramp free from traffic. Speed and G-forces just have a strange effect on me. I could never live in a city where it would be impractical to own a car. To me, a car = freedom (to go where I want, when I want).

That said, I hate most drivers. I think the two most annoying things that I hate are:
1) Almost all driver believe that ALL rules of the road apply to everybody else BUT them. People always turn right on a red in front of me when they can see that I've gotten the green to go through the interesection. They obviously have no clue how quickly I can do that.

and

2) They have that alpha personality behind the wheel. They must drive 2 meters off your rear bumper. I've been rear-ended once. I'd rather not have that happen again. They have to get ahead of you, no matter how fast they plan to go after that. If they want to pass me and are truly going faster than I, I have no problem with that. If they pass me and then go slower than I was going, that just pisses me off. Of course, the other side of that is that if they are going slowly and I pass them, suddenly, they are riding right on my bumper.

Luckily, I haven't had any bad bike+car experiences yet.

Yet.

You said it fella.

p.s. is that you P38lightning? Put me out of your misery!

__________________
www.wheelism.co.uk - Keeping it wheel, every single day.

"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, January 18, 1896, Scientific American Magazine

Nope. I'm Yippee38. Always have been, always will be.

So you are. Sorry for the confusion.

__________________
www.wheelism.co.uk - Keeping it wheel, every single day.

"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, January 18, 1896, Scientific American Magazine