How good are American Vehicles? - Page 2

Tell me about it, they keep telling me I have to feed these darn kids.....and clothe them.....and supply medical attention, educate, they damn well better be worth it. I could be riding alot more.

Uh-oh, it's worse than I thought. GM's market share was 19.1% as of last month. They are so farked.

The good news is that Hummer may be going away. Hummer sold 76K vehicles in 2006. They have sold 3K so far this year.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Also gone are the Trailblazer, Tahoe, and they are talking other trucks. What will they have left? I don't see too many other GM cars around here.......the Malibu is a good try for GM, but its no Accord. I see a couple of Aveos, a beer can on wheels, most of the Impalas are state vehicles........doesn't look good for GM.

Chrysler going tits up?

This site linked to below claims that Chrysler has unilaterally told its suppliers that it is reducing the price on all purchase orders by 5% and at the same time it has increased its payment period from net 45 to net 60.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/chr...ents/#comments

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

I read an article the showed what Toyota and Honda are paying for floor workers in Southern U.S. compared to G.M. and Ford in the union controlled Northern U.S. Toyota and Honda averaging $45/hour per employee, Ford G.M. $75/hour. These averages include benefits, ect. The difference in cost makes competition impossible.

Many don't realize Most Hondas and Toyotas are built in the USA. The vehicle most American made is the Honda Accord.

But is it only an issue of production costs? I believe (please correct me if I am mistaken) that Japanese brands (Toyota and Honda) command a price premium - you have to pay a lot more to buy one, obviously based on their perceived higher quality.

Do most people feel the same way?

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De Rosa Planet
Campagnolo Per Sempre!
PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

Yes, usually they do cost more compared to similar American models. Not sure how they compare to European models though - I think European cars may be more expensive. But Japanese cars do retain more value when you try to sell it a few years down the line, and so it is ok to pay more for it in the beginning. They are also more reliable IMO.

I find that MSRP usually close in comparable vehicles, however, Japanese brands usually do not offer incentives and rebates that remove thousands from the MSRP. The buyer pays more for the Japanese brand.

Considering the fact that production cost are less and no incentives and rebates, it is easy to see why Toyota is now the biggest seller in the world. They build for less and get more. Even when both American and Japanese model is made in the USA.

True. Having said that, I bought a Toyota on the strength of its reputation for reliability and the smart build of the car. First car I came across with the warranty levels that Toyota offered was... well, a Toyota.

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De Rosa Planet
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PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

If you research, and in my case lucky enough to have friends in the auto industry (engineers, not assembly guys) the cost of materials is higher on Honda and Toyota, resulting in the increased reliablity and, just look at the interiors, you can see the quality difference. The grade of materials is higher on the Japanese makes....made in the USA.

If American car manufacturers are dumb enough to concede to unions a pay wage of effectively $75/hr, and if the unions and workers are so self-important and greedy as to demand that, those companies, those workers, and those unions deserve whatever befalls those manufacturers. When teachers have incomes that define "insultingly low" and unskilled labor, as on an assembly line can make money approaching or even exceeding the pay of a not so few doctors....well, when that happens, there is something very wrong with the country.

I know some of these unskilled, overpaid workers. An old neighbor was a GM employee whose job it was to oil machinery in his factory. If he did everything that was expected and required of him each week, he said he'd do a total of about 8 hours of work a week. At the time, this guy was making an obscene salary.

Overpaying those working is not necessarily the worst of the problems. Consider that some of the auto manufacturers have to put money aside to pay people who were long ago laid off. I can't remember the details of such programs, but NPR did a nice report on them. I kind of think these programs had something to do with "job pools," but I can't recall for sure. At any rate, people in these programs were having to show up at particular places and be there for a certain amount of time. They'd do things like watch TV, walk laps around shopping malls, sleep......Maybe there's someone in the auto industry that can explain this further or better.

I'm not in favor, at all, for regulating pay or legislating pay caps in any way, but it's patently disgusting for unions and workers to claim that such out of proportion pay is necessary, that it's only right that companies pay that. It's clear that union leaders and the workers voting to accept such ridiculous contracts lack any semblance of character or spine.

It's said that as US auto manufacturers go, so goes the US economy. Well, if that holds any truth at all, Americans should thank the auto workers of the Big 3 for the royal butt ******* they're doling out to their neighbors.

Alienator, this is a clear case of substituting short-term benefits for the survival of your industry over the longer term...

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De Rosa Planet
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PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

Damn, for one we agree, but don't forget the disgusting greed of the upper management in the whole scheme of the auto industry, no one, no CEO is worth $30+million dollars a year. If CEO salaries were held to $500,000 or less and line workers made a respectable $30hr, and the extra money was spent on higher quality materials and R&D, there would be no threat from overseas.

There is no threat from overseas. The situation is solely a matter of Can't Do: American workers and manufacturers can't do what it takes to be competitive on the world market. American workers can't be dedicated and invest pride in what they do, unless the company pays or the union wins them a pay rate to buy their pride and dedication. Given that pride and dedication are functions of whether or not there's enough money in the worker's pocket, the workers are whores.

At one time in this country unions were formed to protect the workers for corporate activity and alleged abuses. Now, thanks to government "fixes", the pendulum has swung in the opposite directions, the corporations are now subjects of the union activities and abuses.

I'm so tired of hearing "big oil", "big box mart", "big corporation", ect. ect. ect. get demonized by politicos for fleecing America. You want to know why there is no more manufacturing jobs in the U.S. The tax policies and regulatory policies of the U.S. government have made competition impossible and they have fled to overseas markets.

Foreign car makers are flourishing in the sunbelt of the U.S. because of low taxes and anti-union work environments. BMW, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have very large plants operating in the southern U.S.

The union and tax policies of the northern states, federal union regulations and poor corporate management have created a situation where we have to buy foriegn to get america's best.

And now we have Hope and Change on the way, Great!!