Who has Powercranks - Page 2

markhr · #16 08-16.-2005

http://www.liquidfitness.com/article...ear-later.html

markhr · #17 08-17.-2005

http://www.rightzone.co.uk/logs/PCWeek.html

markhr · #18 08-18.-2005

http://www.insidetri.com/train/coach...es/2893.0.html

markhr · #19 08-25.-2005

another powercranker

wilmar13 · #20 08-25.-2005

I realize you are doing your best to try to keep this thread alive and while I have no doubt there are benefits to using them, I can't help but notice in every review (and paid advertisement like cycling news and Pez "reviews") I have read of them there seems to be a theme, let me just change the component to a ficticious "power seat" which is really just a seatpost you insert in your ass instead of sitting on a conventional seat and lets see if you can guess the pattern:

At first when I installed the new "power seat" I noticed a lot of discomfort in my ass, heck I could barely go 30 minutes before I had to return home. The next day I was more sore than ever, certainly evidence that it is training an area I do not get much use out of. As time went by I became adjusted to the new inserted "power seat" and after a few months I was able to train more than ever before. Now that I am totally used to my "power seat" I have been able to put in mad training time and I have noticed I am much stronger than before the "power seat". Clearly this is an advantage I don't want any of my competitors to have..."

FWIW I think Frank Day shoots himself in the foot with outrageous claims such as "40% increase in peak power" rather than being realistic and saying that you will see small gains in efficiency and increased endurance...which may or may not be worth the cost in terms of $$ and training time you will need to see any improvement depending on how serious you are about the sport... in the pareto of how to spend $700+ for speed gains, power cranks are hardly at the top for most cyclists.

markhr · #21 08-25.-2005

fair enough FWIW here's a summary by someone far more articulate than me

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCaliber

I am a cat 1 who has used power cranks.

I will try to hit the high points, because much has been covered here.

1. Kerry Irons is wrong. Power cranks are not at all similar to Rotor, Bio-Pace, Bobby Julich's chain rings or any such nonsense. Those products work to reduce the dead spot at the top and bottom of the pedaling stroke by accelerating the foot thru those low power positions. Power cranks make you do MORE work, not less, and they are advertised as suck. I don't think even the most ardent Powercrank user would describe them as fun or easy to ride.

2. Powercranks are for training ONLY. You can't race on them because even tempo and LSD rides on them will push you to your limit, racing is out of the question unless you are a sanbagger. In addition they are heavy as hell. You rarely see pros pics from training, that's why you never see the pros riding these.

3. Garzelli's cranks are the old style. These cranks are from a batch that Frank Day sent to the Mapei sports and training institute early in the product's life. Thru mapei is where Bettini, Garzelli, Museeuw, evans, and others were introduced to the product. Day sent them to try out, and Mapei refused to return the sample, and in fact ordered more.

4. They haven't caught on because Frank Day doesn't really sponsor anybody. Their take on sponsorships and prodeals is simular to SRM and Lightweight wheels. They are bloody expensive, and that limits the appeal. Also, the only people who should/will ride them are elite racers... There is no reason to subject yourself to the torture of PowerCranks just to pep up the group ride.

5. THEY DO NOT MEASURE POWER. They are a training device, not a training monitoring device.

6. Getting used to them isn't than bad. Just put your pedals on and go for a ride. It will be a short one, and it takes a while to build up time on them, but it can be done by any non-pansy.

7. Doing one-legged drills on powercranks is redundant. The entire time you are riding powercranks it is as if you are doing on legged drills. If you want to know what they feel with, go for a two hour ride, on the way out, pedal one legged with the other foot clipped out, on the way home, switch legs... That is what 30min on the PCs feels like.

8. The best way to use powercranks is to put them on your bike, break down any other bike you have with normal cranks and do ALL of your winter base training on the PCs... In the spring switch back to regular cranks for shorter high cadence rides, but retain the PCs for long intervals. Slowy wean yourself onto the normal cranks as the race season draws near. You may need to do your long ride of the week on the PCs to keep the movement fresh in your mind.

9. The biggest powercrank benefit is that it forces you to eliminate the backpressure of your left leg on the cranks as the right leg pushes down and vice versa. You would be amazed how much down stroke force is wasted simply lifting the 'off' leg back to top dead center. Even people who think they have great pedal strokes, ride rollers, ride fixie, etc, can benifit form this. Over rthe course of a race, probably 20% of your downward pedal force is simply overcoming the backforce of lifting the 'resting' leg to the top of the pedal stroke. As you become tired, you pedal stroke deteriorates, and you rase the back leg with less and less snap. By strengthening your hip flexors with the powercranks, it takes much longer for the 'rising' leg to tire and begin taking free rides on the crank ferris wheel, allowing you to pedal harder for longer.

I started riding powercranks in the winter after my 1st season as a cat 1. That year I had been pretty good, with many top 10's, but no wins... The year after a winter of PCs, I won 8 races, got 6 2nd places and 20 3rd-5th place finishes. The results speak for themselves, they work.
The next winter I didn't ride the powercranks at all and used normal bike-result- this season I am back to mostly top 10 finishes and only 1 win so far this year.

I will be back on the powercranks for sure this winter. There is simply no better tool to build muscular endurance than powercranks.
peace.

wilmar13 · #22 08-25.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by markhr

fair enough FWIW here's a summary by someone far more articulate than me

Well the problem is that everyone uses #9 to justify them, but unfortunantly the laws of physics makes this a net sum zero gain. it doesn't matter whether you use the down stroke of your left leg to lift your right leg, or use muscles from your right leg to do the deed, your body expends the same energy... however unlike most critics of the PCs I do believe you will see an endurance benefit. I know that when I am sapped I can climb a little bit better when concentrating on pulling up, but this only occurs if my legs are what is holding me back not my oxygen delivery system. Again this is where Frank Day screws up with the critics in that he trys to say that we are "wasting energy" with regular cranks and a square pedal technique, fact is the energy required is exaclty the same... but if only he would change his sales pitch to one of better and more flexible utilization of the leg muscles I don't think there would be a bunch of very knowledgeable physiologists telling him he is full of ****. I do believe they will help you, but in terms of actual increase in ability vs. focused training without them, I think a set of aero wheels is a much better investment for the ametuer racer.

alienator · #23 08-25.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by markhr

uh yeah - I seem to have attracted the usual crowd of "I've never used them therefore they must be sh*t" trolls. Again.

Actually try them. For at least 6 months. Exclusively. Measure your changes(heart rate, speed, power, VO2). Then pass judgement.

Well, I don't think Wilmar's a troll.....but even if he were, what and who did you think you'd attract with your Powercrank SPAM? I mean, the way you're pushing these things on multiple boards qualifies for SPAM in about every way.

markhr · #24 08-25.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienator

Well, I don't think Wilmar's a troll.....but even if he were, what and who did you think you'd attract with your Powercrank SPAM? I mean, the way you're pushing these things on multiple boards qualifies for SPAM in about every way.

Here's my reason for plugging a product that I use to the cycling world in general. Powercranks work, instantly, and they do exatly what they say they'll do. Amongst other benefits instant circular pedalling, more power, more muscles used, less pressure on the knees.

I don't work for powercranks, I don't work for a company that sells powercranks and I don't even work for a bike shop anymore. The only reason I'm plugging powercranks is so that trolls might actually beg or borrow some Powercranks and try them. Trolls may feel that it's all very well sitting in front of their PCs and attempting to spread their prejudices but until they actually try they're hardly in a position to pass judgement.

Anyway, I was hoping that other powercrank users would add to this thread with pictures, tales of pain and success and encouragement for new users. I can only hope some more will.

Personally, I think Powercranks are great and this is because I actually use them.

Thanks for listening.

alienator · #25 08-25.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by markhr

Here's my reason for plugging a product that I use to the cycling world in general. Powercranks work, instantly, and they do exatly what they say they'll do. Amongst other benefits instant circular pedalling, more power, more muscles used, less pressure on the knees.

Wow! Instant! Geez, just when pretty much every physiologist and doctor believed that muscle training was not an instant process, you come along with the God's Honest Truth. Wow. Thanks. Instant.

Did y'all hear that? It's INSTANT! INSTANT!

I think the phrase we're looking for is "snake oil saleman."

wilmar13 · #26 08-26.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by markhr

Trolls may feel that it's all very well sitting in front of their PCs and attempting to spread their prejudices but until they actually try they're hardly in a position to pass judgement.

You are free to consider the physical laws that govern our universe my prejudice if you wish. If someone were to give me a pair I would use them without hesitation, fact is I researched them long and hard, read many threads where Frank Day, Andy Coggen, J Brandt and several others way more knowledgeable than myself debated this into the ground and the conclusion I came to is that you may become a more efficient pedaler after a year or more of use. But to give up $700+ and a significant adjustment period to gain an unproven (but I do believe it) small gain in efficiency did not make sense to me (for me). For an amateur racer like myself I will see much bigger gains from highly focused training and a proper diet...which coincidentally seems to be undertaken by many of the powercrank users simultaneously with powercranks. Nothing like dropping significant coin down on something to help you get faster to make you focus on, well, getting faster. I got faster after I got a PT power meter, does that mean the PT hub allowed me to get faster, or was it the training that did it? Well in this case it seems obvious to the most casual of observers that the hub did nothing it was the additional focus and feedback I got with it... Problem is without a good study you can't seperate this out from a user review with powercranks where n=1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markhr

Anyway, I was hoping that other powercrank users would add to this thread with pictures, tales of pain and success and encouragement for new users. I can only hope some more will.

Hope in one hand and sh!t in the other... see which one fills up first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markhr

Personally, I think Powercranks are great and this is because I actually use them.

While this gives me the same warm and fuzzy feeling I get when reading someone's "and then I began training harder than ever and this is my best season yet... thanks powercranks!" story, I can't understand why no one can perform a simple study to prove or at least validate some of the claims made by the inventor and users???

Just to be clear I think powercranks are a very good invention and are probably a good training tool. You can bet I would use them if they weren't so expensive (a power meter is a better training tool for the same money). The problem is that there is nothing but user testimonials to substantiate the claims, and I can't help but get turned off when those user claims contain false premises, the most common is #9 of the quote you used.

markhr · #27 08-26.-2005

alienator -

rotfl

Wilmar - beg or borrow - Powercranks may still do the money back policy for unhappy customers - you could try

that.

wilmar13 · #28 08-26.-2005

umm yeah are those nike running shoes and toe clips team issue.

alienator · #29 08-26.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmar13

You are free to consider the physical laws that govern our universe my prejudice if you wish. If someone were to give me a pair I would use them without hesitation, fact is ....what Wilmar13 said.....I can't understand why no one can perform a simple study to prove or at least validate some of the claims made by the inventor and users???

What shills don't understand is the concept of proof or the idea behind an independent study. Shills believe the proof is in the testimonial, which clearly is not true. Manufacturer beliefs are not proof, and neither are white papers. So far, as you say, there is no proof, no matter how much the concept seems to make sense. Also, without study, improvement is not quantified or qualified, and other factors that impact a "testers" observations can't be isolated or mitigated.

The state of science education in this country is piss poor. I weep for the future of our children. Maybe there's something in Intelligent Design that proves the PowerCrank concept? Hmm......

markhr · #30 08-26.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienator

...with your Powercrank SPAM?...

Alienator - you are a very funny man but I must admit that you do have a point here. So I think I'll call it quits at >4500 views.

Now, if 1% of the people who viewed try...

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