double to triple - Page 2

Hmm.

That is what several people said.
But don't let that allow you to waste this perfectly bad mood you seem to be in.

Somebody needs a hug...

I have to agree with most of the posters. The only time I shift to my granny gear is when I'm making sure it still works. If you want it, fine, but I feel you would be better served by a different freewheel or by improving your physical condition to the point where you don't need the granny gear. If you keep riding you will get there. BTW, did your 95 Grand Prix come with the 105 equipment on it or was that added later?

Hey ej599, in defense of Armenian, there are some decent hills just outside of Boston. Ever hear of Bunker Hill? Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes, etc.

__________________
One life, one chance. Don't waste it!

Hey "BUDDY" re-read my post! I never said he didnt need lower gears or a tripple. I simply stated that I bought a bike, it had a tripple, I used it, and have since learned that MY cycling has improved since I stopped using it. Thats it!

and one other thing BUDDY! if you really want to help... how bout directing your agression elsewhere. This was just a thread where some people were trying to help another person with some gearing suggestions.... You started the riff!!!

Take a deep breath. Someday you'll learn that people have legitimate reasons for low gearing and that's why they ask about how to make the conversion. You might even learn that what YOU need has nothing to do with what HE needs, and certainly has nothing to do with the question he asked.

I GIVE UP!
ej599: Good luck on the conversion, or what ever route you choose!

Camilo: you are an A-Hole! I dont need my post picked appart on the basis of whether I compitantly answered the original posters question. I simply stated an opinion, I let everyone know it was an opinion by finishing with "thats my 2cents" And I posted it because a person I have never met was contimplating a conversion that might be expensive and might take a lot of time, and I thought he should know that it might not be everything he dreamed when it was done, and might not be worth the effort. I was just trying to help out a fellow cycling brother, no other motive. Instead I (and everyone else who opens this post) got a lesson from an A-Hole about how we are supposed to behave on the Cycling forum... Thanks for the lesson, Ill be signing out for good!

I'll reply to my own post so nooone feels left out. First of all let me repeat my self: "if I didn't feel i needed it, I wouldn't have asked." A little ettiquitte is certainly in order. My intentions are to climb every hill in the highest gear possible, gradually increasing gears with time. Any one who disaproves can kiss my ass.
That's not a bad suggestion regarding the rear cassete swap out. I may very well go down that route. the bike came equipped with the 105's biopace chainrings and wienmann rims. I paid under $400 for it in 86'. It was a leftover. Thanks for the advice and an interesting first post. In the future I'll try not to submit such provocative posts or comments. Hey, anyone out there but me a George Bush supporter?

Hey, good luck on your project. For what it's worth, a couple of years ago, I asked my best bike mechanic to help me gear down my old double 7 spd. Bianchi as cheaply as possible (early 90s era - downtube indexed shifters) He put on the smallest chain wheel and largest rear sprocket that the existing derailleurs could handle. I can't tell you the numbers, but could count them if it would help. This was a short cage rear derailler, so there wasn't a whole lot he could do.

It did help a significant amount, but not nearly enough. Compared to my current triple Cannondale R2000, it was a real beast to ride up the steep hills and mountains I have around here. The triple has made my rides 1,000% more enjoyable and quite a bit faster overall. Faster because I do go up hills much easier and even faster spinning lower gears, plus it make a huge difference in the fatigue factor. I'm much fresher at the top and can go faster afterwards, and have more long term energy on the ride. I enjoy it more and ride a lot more because of it. I'm a much stronger rider now in spite of the triple, I guess.

Next bike I might conside a compact double, but would think real hard about it since the triple works so well for me both in terms of function and just smoothness of shifting (Ultegra drive train and derailleurs).

I apologize for my contribution to the snottiness in this thread. Yours was a very reasonable question.

Georges Bushe? Name sounds familiar. Didn't he ride for Rabobank in the '04 Tour de France.

Yeah, good luck on the refit if that's what you want. I have noticed that there is a lot of anti-triple bias on this forum. I personally own a triple, bike was set up that way when I bought it. I don't use it myself but I don't do much climbing. As a matter of fact, in 1st gear my cadence just to keep the bike going fast enough not to fall over exceeds 100RPM.

I really don't have a problem with people giving their opinions on this forum, even if it is contrary to the OP's wishes. I thought this forum was supposed to be about a free exchange of information and opinions. I have learned a lot from these posts and found out that there are at least two polarized positions on equipment and upgrades. If this had been my thread, I would have welcomed any dissenting views. If you already have your mind made up, why bother posting the thread at all unless you feel that you must have someone validate your decision at the exclusion of all other opinions.

I'm going to stay as far away as possible from second question! I like bikes but not politics!

__________________
One life, one chance. Don't waste it!

The bottom line is I need need a lower gearing. This is why I went to the TECHNICAL forum. to basically be told 'no, just peddle harder' is, how can I say this politely... Well i can't. changing the rear cassette , as I said earlier, is the type of alternative suggestion I openly welcome. peddling harder, der duh uhh, why didn't I think of that......george who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdelong Yeah, good luck on the refit if that's what you want. I have noticed that there is a lot of anti-triple bias on this forum. I personally own a triple, bike was set up that way when I bought it. I don't use it myself but I don't do much climbing. As a matter of fact, in 1st gear my cadence just to keep the bike going fast enough not to fall over exceeds 100RPM.

I built all my new bikes with triple chainrings in front. My nephew races at the college level and looks down on them, as do others - but we are in our 40's -- and live in a very hilly area and I weigh 210 lbs. Nice to have when you need it. Many of our roads are combination paved and dirt so going up a really steep dirt road it is nice to have providing you don't go so slow you fall over (we use our cyclocross bikes on the dirt which is so much fun). One bike I put a 14-32 in the back as well as an XTR long cage derailluer. Love it.
One question though -- if anyone can answer, verify or debunk;
I use both 105 and ultegra front derailleurs and STI shifters. What I find strange is that there appears to be 4 (yes 4) indexing positions in the front triple derailleur- one for the little ring , 2 (yes 2) for the middle ring and one for the top ring. At first I thought this was a screwup on my part, thinking I had too much cable slack or didn't lube the cable/housing good enough and that one of the "indexing positions" for the middle ring was really just a stuck cable. I would continue to think that but it happens all all 4 of our bikes. I also tore them all apart, reduced the cable lengths to a minimum, got rid of any snags at the ends, lube them all up, etc...
Sort of a pain to jockey around with this when in the middle ring depending on where you are in the rear cassette (to get rid of noise/rub on the frront derailleur cage when at one end or the other of the rear cassette (all 9 speed) due to chain angle). I haven't talked to my LBS about this (I bought very few of the parts from him and am a little embarrased)...
Anyone else running a triple have this experience, and can either tell me I am nuts and there is a better way to adjust the ring/derailleur system to work bif I am doing something wrong ; or to verify this happens with them and confrim that this is the way it works ? I have been seriously thinking about dumping the triples for doubles and going to all bigger rear cassettes, to ge the lower gears just to get rid of all this fiddling...
Oh yes, I already have inline cable tension adjusters and fiddle with those too to make up for any slop while shifting...
Just found this in another post:
"Some allow you to shift single or up to three gears by pushing the break lever further to the side. On tripples, some allow you to shift to "half" possitions, which allows the full range of rear gears to be used from one chainwheel without rubbing on the front der. guide." --
Is it true ? You can index to "half positions" and this is what is happening ?

George

First, Geoinmillbrook, yes it is true that there are two positions on the Shimano 105 front brifter for the center ring. It just allows you to eliminate the chain rub on the FD cage when you are at either end of the cassette. IMHO this is a nice feature. I don't know if it is duplicated on SRAM or Campy.

Second, ej599, I have reviewed the posts on this thread, and with the exception of Armenian's first post, most everyone else was telling you of their experiences with the triple. The fact is most people who have it do not use the granny gear. If you want a granny gear, then by all means go ahead and get the parts for it and install it. Like I said, this forum is all about a free flow of ideas, information, and opinions and you're going to get all three if you post a thread. Some folks have told you why they would'nt do it, some have told you how you could do it differently, and some have supported your original idea. Not one of them was telling you "NO, YOU CANNOT HAVE A TRIPLE". Now the pissing contest that erupted between Camilo and quinn8it is because quinn8it took Camilo's post a little too personally. There are a lot of good natured barbs thrown back and forth between frequent posters on this forum but most don't take them personally. I hope that quinn8it doesn't leave this forum as he had said he was. He does know what he is talking about most of the time and is a good source of information.

Actually peddling harder is an option for a lot of people. I thought that since you had been out of cycling for awhile, as you first post indicated, that maybe it was just a matter of conditioning. Usually peddling harder is the best way to gain or restore the conditioning. Apparently your conditioning is at its peak so a triple must be the only way to go. Good luck and enjoy it!

__________________
One life, one chance. Don't waste it!

If I ride to and from my house, the last mile home is very steep (albeit short) hills on gravel roads. The triple makes it ridable on my road bike. Because of the road surface, it is very difficult to stand and crank a double drive train. The triple has made it ridable sitting and therefore, feasible for me to begin rides in my own driveway rather than loading up the bike and riding to pavement. I also often use the small ring on paved hills of 8% or steeper. But I'm 53 and not an animal.

These are called "trim" positions and are present on all Shimano triple brifters that I'm familiar with, except my daughter's Sora.

They are indeed to "trim" the front derailleur while on the middle and smallest rings depending on the position of the rear derailleur. That way those rings can utilize more of the rear cassette without rubbing.

In the days of old friction shifters, each position was infinititely trimable and that's the way you shifted: forcefully bump the chain to the new position and then trim it to suit. Trim again if needed if the chain rubs when the chain moves up and down the sprokets of the rear.

The trim can actually be used for both the middle and the small ring:

Starting on the large chain (call it position 1):

First click (position 2) moves to the middle ring.

Second click (position 3) - the chain stays on the middle ring but trims it a shade inward to eliminate rub if the chain is on the inner few rear sprockets. This helps the middle ring expand it's range.

Third click (position 4) moves to the small ring.

Going back up, starting on small ring (position 4):

First click (position 3) the chain stays on the small ring but trims it a shade outward to eliminate rub if the chain is on the middle to outer few rear sprockets. This helps the small ring expand it's range.

Second click (position 2) shifts to middle ring.

If you want to actually shift to the middle ring from position 4, you have to make a significant, two click shift. If you've already trimmed (position 3), it is a much smaller, single click shift.

When in position 2, on the middle ring, you could then trim back to position 3 if needed.

From position 2 (middle ring), next click puts you on the large ring.

This was always second nature to me because I spent many years on friction shifters and trimming was just part of the deal.

one must lift five before he can lift ten. peace be with you.

but hey to change the tone my son and i bought some strange ole tandem tonite at a tag sale tonite. got matching spring cushioned seats and apes. its got double top tubes front and rear. I think it's a huffy. $25 but everythings there. a little surface rust. loose spokes and covered with cheap paint. ugly but preserved. its research time

Sorry quinn8it but you're making a lot more of this than needed. You invited sarcasm when asking for a lesson in forum posting and got pretty much what you deserved - although it was clearly tongue in cheek from Camilo.

What the others have said is right - just because some people don't use a triple doesn't mean everyone shouldn't. I read somewhere there's even tour riders who use triples on the alps. As I'm (rapidly) approaching 50 I'd get a triple in a flash if it was economical. I doubt I'd use it much, but it would be comforting to know it's there when needed. There's a couple of hills near me which are just killers and I'd much rather granny up a hill than walk.

Anyway - my 2c

//k