EPO? Yes of no? - Page 3

What's the difference between taking PEDs, and using some advanced technology that no-one else has access to (like aero-bars when they first came out)?

I can't see one. Both are attempts to give you an unfair advantage over other riders.

What I was getting at on that post was Lance wasn't "cheating" back then (assuming the reports are true). The rules have changed and people are still doping and it is officially cheating.

I'm interested in what people are doing that currently isn't "cheating".


Gene doping....now there is a risk if ever I heard one!! At least with hormones or EPO you can stop taking them!

Cycling is about man and machine (or woman). What can a person get out of themselves on two wheels with a spring of guide lines.
It has been determined from time to time that certain designs can't be used because of the unfair advantage ruling. You should watch the movie "The Flying Scotsman" very funny segments and shows how arrogant the UCI can be when they don't like something/someone.

There are MANY limitations on what design elements you can use on a UCI legal road bike.

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Public knowledge!

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Yep, mom and dad won't care if their son or daughter wants aero bars because their favorite rider is using a certain piece of equipment, but when kids are able to locate a dealer or internet source because news on the street is you have to use PED's they will blindly use PED's without a doctor or knowledge on how to use.

I have to admit that is how I got started way back when. My first injection I had no clue other than put some in a syringe and try not to hit a nerve or artery. My first number of years half of what I used wasn't even real and probably had contaminants. Later we were stupid enough to create certain types of anabolics on the kitchen stove. Some of those guys ended up with abssesses that had to be surgically opened and cleaned. I ended up becoming a dealer so that I could get closer to the source so that everything I used was legit and not fake. It just took me deeper into the badlands.

By the way I post these things if only to do one thing and that is bring clarity that using PED's is not just cheating. There are a lot of risks involved and a lot of personal damage and shame that will go along with it. None of these people that are eventually exposed like Landis, Marion Jones, Conseco and so on are having a feel good moment right now.

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Yes, bike components won't cause your heart rate to drop to zero in your sleep.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Good point Felt. The pros get their drugs through team doctors, or external doping specialists like Fuentes; but to reach that stage, they probably start (when they are not pro that is) by buying drugs in the black market, and administering them themselves, and that has its risks and dangers...

That's not my point.

My point is why is it ok to get an advantage using technology that is not available to everyone, but it is not ok to get an advantage using PEDs?

Both are cheating imo, since it is not solely your body, your training, and your desire that helps you win.

Are there any documented cases of where someone got an unfair advantage using technology? Don't see such a thing happening at least in the current environment.

Low pressure chamber, sleeping capsule. Used by Lance. Artificial way to increase red blood cells.

As far bike equipment, bikes and equipment are examined and deemed ok or not. They are out there for the whole world to see. Using covert methods for physical enhancement is a whole other world.
Equipment technology is constantly evolving. I am not saying there have not been instances of cheating using illegal equipment, but it is difficult and rare that someone gets away with it.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

But these sort of things are known to the riders, and are not some classified secret that gives rise to unfair advantage to some riders...

+1

It would also seem that an equipment or clothing advantage (like the dimpled swimsuit controversy ) may give a slight percentage of advantage, but to be a larger advantage it would more likely be a very radical difference in equipment one would think.


The difference in using PED's is typically a 10% advantage over natural efforts among similar genetic capabilities. Me taking all the PED's that I could and still live will not help me against a pro cyclists because my genetics are not prime for cycling. So to be clear the comparison is among similar genetic capabilities. 10% +/- is a huge advantage and the other huge advantage in human physiology is a faster recovery time. One could have a miserable day one day and drop the whole field the next day if that sounds familiar. Equipment and clothing does not have that capability without it being something really radical and even then I would be skeptical of the discussion.

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I agree with the 10% estimate however the other advantages are getting in form much more quickly, pre -season, and as you stated faster recovery which is a big advantage in a mulit-stage race.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

The DarkLord wants to know where technology gave an unfair advantage.

Didn't Lemond barely eke out a Tour de France win in 1989 when he used aero bars in the time trial, and Fignon didn't have them?

How is this conceptually different from gaining an advantage by using PEDs?

If Fignon didn't use aero bars then it was because he choose not to, not because he didn't have access. Almost all aspects of racing bikes are regulated by UCI, eg. if your wheeltype hasn't been approved by the UCI, then it isn't allowed in UCI regulated races. There are several reasons for this regulation but the primary reason is no one can race with equipment that gives them an unfair advantage.

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Regards