Front shifting woes...

So I bought a Shimano double D/A crankset for a song last year. I had it put on my 105/Ultegra bike, which was formerly a triple, and it has never shifted well at all. It seems as if the front derailleur never lands in the same place twice. There is lots of chain rub and nonsense, so I have to trim the sucker with almost every shift. It's a serious pain in the butt, and 4 different mechanics have been stumped, except to say that I need a new shifter. I find it strange that this would suddenly be the case at exactly the same time as the new crank is installed.
Do I need a double FD?
The cable is new, and it shifted well before with a triple crank.

Any ideas? Do I need a new shifter?

Who did the work?

Presuming an Octalink crankset, did you replace the 118.5mm BB with a 109.5mm BB?

MOST IMPORTANTLY, do you have the CORRECT chain (width) for the particular front derailleur?

Just substituting an Octalink DA crank for an Octalink 105-or-Ultegra triple won't change the chainring position if you didn't change the BB to one with a shorter spindle.

The shifting WILL BE slightly better (because of chainline to the rear cogs) with a 109.5mm spindle, still good with a 112.5 XTR spindle (double OR triple) and certainly good-enough with a 118.5mm spindle. The 118.5mm spindle should probably only have been used with alloy frames which have 135mm rear spacing ... but, it was a safe spec for a triple.

ALSO. Now a moot point, but for a Shimano TRIPLE, the chain ABSOLUTELY MUST (no matter what you may read elsewhere) match the front derailleur. Similarly, if you use a chain that is too wide (e.g., 8-speed) for the derailleur (e.g., 9-speed), then it will rub AND not index properly.

Definitely, turn the bike upside down to ensure that the cable isn't binding anywhere (e.g., through the BB cable guide) that is obvious with a visual inspection.

Presuming your shifters aren't toast AND the cable isn't binding in an obvious way, then consider changing/ditching the derailleur cable housing ... I used "extra" brake cable housing BECAUSE it's what I had, and the only time I had problems not related to shifting when-under-load (!) was when I mis-matched a 9-speed chain (what I had more of) with an 8-speed 105 front derailleur & 8-speed 105 TRIPLE (yes, rare!) shifter ... At first, I couldn't believe the shifting could go from good to crap when I replaced an 8-speed Shimano chain with a 9-speed chain ... I put the old 8-speed chain back on, and the shifting was once again "good."

When an 8-speed chain is mismatched with a 9-speed front derailleur, there just may not be enough space for smooth shifting through the entire range -- different brand 8-speed chains are wider than others ... same for 9-speed & 10-speed chains.

If you do feel a new shifter is the resolution, then you may as well get a pair of Campagnolo Veloce-or-better shifters (well under $150 on eBay for a set) ... but, you will still want to match the chain to the front derailleur. You should be able to get an ORPHANED Left/(front) Campagnolo shifter for under $50 ... the vintage doesn't matter.

BTW. While some/many feel that a "double" front derailleur is better, I prefer to use/install a "triple" front derailleur when I have the option available to me BECAUSE I have the future option to install a "triple" crankset without needing to change the front derailleur ...

The same is true for the rear derailleur -- when I have the option, I'll buy-and-use a long-cage rear derailleur ... my preferance is an XTR rear derailleur.

Thanks for the legthy reply.

The BB was replaced with a 109.5mm Ultegra unit, and the cable and housing was also replaced as a diagnostic step.
The crankset is a 9 sp, as is the rest of the drivetrain, but I'm not sure about the chain...
I'm certainly amenable to using Campy shifters. Would it be possible to use 10-speed shifters here, with a Shiftmate, or whatever it's called? I found a set of 10sp shifters for pretty cheap...Of course I could just buy a 10 sp cassette.

Those who have spent money for a JTEK Shiftmate say they work well ...

BUT, why spend money if you don't have to?!?

If you use a(ny) 10-speed CAMPAGNOLO shifter + almost any 9-speed SHIMANO rear derailleur + 9-speed SHIMANO-or-equivalent cassette, you simply have to use the hubbub.com alternate rear cable anchoring to achieve 9-speed Shimano-equivalent indexing:




http://www.hubbub.com/articles_ergopower.html

I have used this with Shimano 6500/6503/5500/XTR-950/XT-750 rear derailleurs, so it should work for you/anyone. You probably don't want to use a RAPID RISE rear derailleur with a pair of Campagnolo shifters, but I suppose someone could if that was what was handy.

Of course, you can use your existing Shimano front derailleur with Campagnolo shifters.

It seems too simple. Just turn the fixing plate 90 degrees and reattach as shown? Nothing to buy? This will not require constant trimming?
But hey, this has been a problem for several months, and I need solution.

But the real problem is in the FD. the rear shifts fine...I suspect the left shifter is shot, or gummed up in some way. Everything is clean and lubed, FD pivots included.

My only concern is that I'll implant Campy shifters and then have trouble front AND rear...but at least campy is rebuildable.

I'll get a set of 10sp Veloce shifters and give it a go...

thanks again for all the help!

YES, it's that simple! The Campagnolo 10-speed shifters can be adapted to almost any drivetrain ... and consequently, may be the "perfect" shifters for non-sponsored riders.

Of course, it takes about 15 seconds to acclimate to using them -- the chain's motion mirrors the motion of the lever being pushed ... push the LEFT paddle inward, and the chain moves from left-to-right onto the larger chainring(s) ... push the LEFT thumb lever down, and the chain moves down to the smaller chainring(s) ... push the RIGHT paddle inward, and the chain moves inward onto a larger cog ... push the thumb lever down, and the chain moves down to a smaller cog. How great is that?!?

Additionally, the Campagnolo shifters can downshift onto a larger cog without balking when under load.

AND, the FRONT shifting is (subjectively?) so good (compared with Ultegra 6500 shifters) that I found that I can use my excess stockpile of UN-RAMPED & UN-PINNED 8-speed chainrings. I haven't done an "objective" test where I could theoretically swap various chainrings & time the shifting ... I just know that I haven't had any problems shifting when on the road with ANY type/brand of chainring, yet (I'm generally using Shimano 6503 front derailleurs). I suppose that YOUR results could vary OR I might eventually encounter a "bad" chainring combination.

After you've finished re-wrapping the handlebars & give the Campagnolo shifters a quick road test, you may wonder why you didn't use Campagnolo shifters sooner!

BTW. If you have the option to buy a (new) set of shifters WITH the Campagnolo cables & housing, then do so. The Campagnolo cables & housing are probably the best non-exotics you can buy-and-use.

If you still have the triple FD on there, replace with a double FD, any shimano STI compatible FD.

Thanks, alfeng. New 10sp Veloce shifter are on the way. I'll let you know how it works out!