Are cyclists that carry guns paranoid and insecure gun fanatics? - Page 5

me on left. Stevebaby got big ones, he save me!

When you have a scary confrontation don't you think afterwards 'what if this or that had happened', and kinda learn from the experience? Having thought about a few 'what-if's' then the reaction may be better should it happen again.

I think many people who carry do so as a result of some unpleasant experience to themselves or someone close to them. What if you are alone, confronted by a menace who gives every indication of doing you real harm...you have two seconds to decide what to do?

Some will have a plan, others will say that this should never happen. Call the first lot paranoid, and the second lot complacent.

Doesn't necessarily have to remain in such a state. You can do your part...if you so choose...if not, so be it...

With the pointed title that you have chosen, this thread was destined to become an argument between those who carry or support the right to carry and those who don't carry or are willingly oppressed by their government who forbids them to carry. As it is with most Americans, all that I expect from my government is to preserve my freedoms, including the freedom to protect myself if I so choose. And now stevebaby or someone else who doesn't share this veiwpoint is going to make some snide remark about choosing to commit murder or trying to compare crime rates between free countries and oppressive ones. The subject matter is extremely controversial and most who take part are extremely emotional about it. It seems that no matter which side you come down on, it appears to you that the people on the other side must be bone heads to think the way they do. And about 50% of the people on this thread either cannot or will not discuss it in a civil manner without all of the name calling and character assasination. BTW, this discussion, like the other one, will never change anyone's mind. It is destined become an airing of opinions, and you know opinions are just like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink.

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So, are you saying your opinions stink too??? Just wondering...wouldn't want anyone to think you're a hypocrite...

Yeah, someone out there thinks my opinions stink, stevebaby for one, but probably no worse than any one elses.

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May I clarify a point? - most of the comparisons of crime rates have been between the US and Western countries; do you regard these countries as oppressive?

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A recent situation: I'm riding along and pull up to an intersection where I'm required to yeild. A car stops on the main road, blocking traffic, but allowing me to pull on to the main road and proceed in front of him. I pulled on to the road and the car slowly drove behind while the inhabitants yelled obscenities at me. I pulled to the side of the road to let them by and they stopped and waited for me to continue. Ultimately I was pelted with beer bottles and they drove off. When reporting this to the police, they said that they probably wouldn't be able to do anything about this. The one comment that has stuck in my head from the police is that "Carrying a gun tends to make people very polite." I'm not sure I would do that, but I wouldn't fault someone that did.

Think through your unfortunate encounter just a bit. If you were carrying a gun, exactly when would you have pulled it out? When they first started yelling, or after the beer bottle was thrown? What effect do you think showing the gun would have? What would you do with the gun if they ignored it and another bottle was thrown?

Pointing a weapon at a car full of drunk or drugged-up rednecks in NY may cause them to cower and speed away, but here in the south where guns are common and real men are proud, immediate return fire from the vehicle could be the result. If none of the occupants were armed that day (not likely), the driver could easily drive home and come back with his shotgun to even the score, or just back up and then run you over with his truck. No self-respecting country boy around here is going to allow some elitist city cyclist in lycra to back him down in front of his friends.

Good point. If you encounter a situation on your bike where you pull your gun out you are more than likely going to be forced to use it at some point.

My thoughts exactly. How do you get folks to be "very polite" with your gun short of pulling it out and aiming it at them? One of the first things you're taught regarding handguns and gun safety it that you never point a handgun at someone unless you're prepared to take their life. Are you prepared to take their life over rude language, driving too close, a beer can thrown your way?

Over the years I've had rude and dangerous drivers run me off roads with oversized trailers, brush by so close I was forced off the shoulder, had things thrown out of car windows, been insulted a dozen times but there was never a situation where taking the driver's life was an appropriate response. If you guys are thinking you'll draw your firearm just to scare them a bit then you definitely shouldn't be carrying a weapon. You pull a gun, you'd better be prepared to use it, and if the situation doesn't justify the use of deadly force you're the one who'll do time...

-Dave

From a country that does not allow you to protect yourself and keeps you completely dependent on your government to provide I can understand how Americans carrying guns came strange or crazy. Here is the real deal you can "ban" all firearms, knifes, slingshots, sharp sticks, etc. but there will always be criminals who will rob, mug, and rape. It becomes even easier for a criminal to do do these things if they know that the law abiding citizen (or subject in some countries) can not fight back. Because when you ban weapons it's only the law abiding that respect the ban. For some reason the criminals never listen to the law.
Now as far as the Americans that legally carry a concealed firearm they are NOT "waiting" for an opportunity to "punish" or take out road rage aggression. because if they ever did a CRIMINAL act like this they would then get to visit a prison, be stripped of their gun ownership rights as well as their right to vote. Which by the way is what SHOULD happen for anyone who commits a violent criminal act. An American who lawfully carries a concealed weapon must go though an extensive background check, have NO history of domestic violence and have no DUI's on record. Those law abiding Americans who legally carry are simply refusing to be a victim, and in my state they have the right to protect a 3rd party as well. Fact is the police are not by your side 24/7. The criminals know this and they love it when their victims are unarmed. Here in America we have a RIGHT to own firearms under the constitution, The same document that gives us the freedom to practice ANY religion without persecution. If we take away one right than all of our rights can be stripped away. I for one will not give up any of mine. You can turn on any news channel and hear horrible stories of violent gun crimes. They forgot to tell you about how the guns were obtained ILLEGALLY. Prosecute the criminals and the individuals / loopholes that allow this horrible act to take place to full extent of the law....... not the victims.

By the way I have had my fair share of mean, rude, violent, motorists just like every other cyclist. I have had objects thrown at me, verbally abused, and one instance where a car slowed down right next to me and cuss me out, drive off and come back several times. every time I just let it roll off my back. Would I take another humans life for yelling at me or throwing objects at me..........NO! But if I felt it was down to my life or theirs, well thats an obvious choice. Here in Kansas City about 3 years ago there was a bicycle commuter riding home from his job at a HyVee grocery store, a car with 2 low life people came up behind him and fired numerous shots at him, after missing the moving target they slowed down took better aim and killed this man. BECAUSE THEY WERE BORED. Do you think they would honor a "ban"?
My cousin is a public school teacher and one of her coworkers was ran off the road and assaulted -RIGHT IN FRONT OF BYSTANDERS- by a Hummer driver who did not like bicycles on his road.

Good posts, ride4him.

Well we could have a tangential argument about the ridiculous idea that carrying a gun is a sign of freedom.

Or the equally illogical argument that carrying a gun is a form of protection.

But that would be introducing too much common sense into the debate - wouldn't it?

Well we could have a tangential argument about the ridiculous idea that carrying a gun is a sign of freedom.

The God-given right to protect oneself and carry a firearm is a freedom that is "rediculously" enumerated in the second amendment of the Constitution of The United States of America.

Our founding fathers did not see the argument as "tangential", but rather as a foundation stone of freedom.

Or the equally illogical argument that carrying a gun is a form of protection.

Thanks for typing that moronic tripe. A firearm is a tool of protection just as a helmet or gloves. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But that would be introducing too much common sense into the debate - wouldn't it?

Not an ice cube's chance in hell of that happening with a genius like you polluting the thread. Keep up the good work.