New Road frame,its called NEO Exile!! - Page 2

Well, you're wrong about your "gravity" ideas and what "engineering" says about frame stiffness. Perhaps you should just copy some adspeak from Guru and Wilier to sell your frames, eh?

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Now Now, lets not get a wound up about this. I think its fair to say that you wont be riding one of the frames from NEO by personal choice. We all wish you good luck and hope that all your current riding or designing or what ever it is you do,goes well. We too hope that the NEO Exile goes well as far as research is concerned.

Looking forward to next years Tour de France, watching all those riders go up through the mountains on heavy,flexible bikes.

Thanks for the input Alienator, now let someone else get a word in..............eh?

So you can't answer the questions, directly, right? You cannot actually answer questions with facts, right? Another marketing whiz kid is born, I guess.

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Please set your questions out, in a logical and non agressive manor,back them up with some useful facts,intellectual also,and then we can discuss, no problem in talking like an adult about this, but give me some back round on yourself and back up your ideas.

Remember, life will still go on if the whole world thinks the same as you about the product, but in the mean time, lets discuss ........................

How how much does the light weight of the NEO exile improve climbing? What percentage increase, as a function of slope, power and mass, should a person see with this weight compared to heavier frame? What percentage increase, again as a function of slope, mass, and power, should a person expect in speed?

What has been done to increase lateral stiffness in the bottom bracket? How many watts will this save? What has been done to increase the tortional stiffness of the BB? How many watts will that save? What percentage of a rider's power is wasted in BB flex or torsion? What has been done to increase the torsional stiffness of the head tube? How much will that increase the mechanical efficiency of the bike rider system? Have losses due to hysteresis been addressed only by increasing stiffness, or has the CF matrix been altered so that for a given amount of flex or torsion, energy losses to hysteresis are reduced?

What are the fatigue modes of this new frame? Do the frame and fork have any characteristic harmonics, in the spectrum of riding conditions possible, that would compromise bike stability and/or control?

Can you please detail how compliance in the vertical plane has been addressed? What was done to make the bike flex in that plane more than the few parts of a millimeter that almost every other frame on the market flexes?

When the stiffness was "improved," was vibrational damping also addressed? How so?

How big of an effect does flexure in the vertical plane have compared to other methods of "improving" comfort?

As for facts, why do I need facts to present logical questions? Up until this point, I've been using what are considered to be facts re: the static and dynamic properties of bicycles.

My background? Hmmm. What is yours? I've dabbled a bit in science and engineering, doing design and design analysis of airborne sensor platforms in both dynamic and static cases. I've worked in a lab where we did testing of composite (i.e., carbon fiber) and metal parts used in jet and rocket engines. For the last 4 years I've specialized in high precision metrology, like developing systems to measure to very high resolution (like to a nanometer) and analyzing said measurement data.

Since you're now going to tell me how all of the different design and structural features of this frame make performance gains that are above the noise threshold for measurement, you should fill everyone in on your background.

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LOL! Believe or not, I'm with Alienator on this one - and usually I agree to disagree with his comments.

There's nothing at all special about that frame - and IMO, it's overpriced. 800+ pounds for a generic carbon frame!! I think NOT! I don't know today's exact conversion, but that's over $1600US. PedalForce's top-of-line won't set you that far back...

If you're trying to sell something, come right out with it...

Are we in a court of law here????lol

Ok, college student,lets see:

Light weight wins races with significant climbing because the heavier bike can't make up the gap on descents or on the flats. In your lab, not the real world,weight does not climb better,but in the real world of racing the lab does not mirror real life here. When the rider accelerates up the climb,his heavier counterpart will be left behind.

The bottom bracket area is 4.5/5mm wider than some of its earlier designs to increase lateral stiffness (the % of which cannot be written in print yet as this could be used against if incorrect). This in turn allows a slightly wider down tube so an increase in torsional stiffness.

The head tube has been stiffened by placing the lower headset bearing higher up into the head tube so that forces are now directed more into the down tube. Bike stability and control have improved as result of this also, it worked for Specialized.

Hysteresis and carbon matrix have been addressed,as this was in the original Wilier/GURU, but I hope you will allow me some time to ask the lab experts for the % and figures.

Flexing in the vertical plane ,as all bikes do, was addressed by the carbon mix lay-up as only T800 has been used. The tube shape,being totally round and bag lay-up inside, has left as good a finish in there,creating no area for extra fatigue/flex.

Vibrational damping was addressed, as with any bike, the stiffer the rear triangle,the less loss of power(this is a fact), but this ovbiously creates a harsher ride. Lets take this to its two limits, too much flex, or too stiff.........our version can only be described as `what we feel is correct`. The riders will tell us if we have done a good job here or not.

My background is in F1, we currently design/make/test/evaluate all our own items,along with our number crunchers like yourself, and either bin it or win with it.

I hope Ive been of some use here (Im sorry the % and figures are not free flowing......yet). In the wider view of things, our immediate concern is to have some of these out on the road,for proper use and abuse. You can do all the work in the lab, but even one of our main rivals in F1 will tell you.......the proof is on the stopwatch when testing begins. This is no different.

I hope to have some figures soon to satisfy you, in the mean time, do you have any bike riding experience? Our lab guys are excellent at the design and explaining why we need these new bits..................but put them in the car to evaluate them and its not good. I hope to fing out where you have used you extensive knowledge in the cycling world.

What a tool you are. I guess you assumed all my work was done in a lab, eh? Well, so much for your intuition. I guess we'll deduct points for you jumping to wrong conclusions. Apparently you aren't involved in the technical end of F1.....but you shouldn't be ashamed that you just sweep up the shop when everyone's gone.

Your explanation of the impact of mass on a bike is hysterical. See, you answered just like someone who's got no real world experience. See, in the real world, very small changes often don't make any measureable difference as said changes can be lost in the noise. Among those changes would be changes in bike weight. If we take your perspective, then your frame certainly isn't worth the money as lighter frames can be had that will, apparently climb like mountain goats because they're "lighter"......or so you allege. A Pedal Force frame is cheaper and a solid performer.

Stiffer than a Le Roi? Since when is the Le Roi the benchmark for stiffness? You couldn't even address specific stiffness questions. You've a lot of excuses though. It's likely the company either didn't forward the results of tests to the marketing dept or didn't feel the need to test their mass produced generic frame.

Your college student quip really rocked! Man, you got it going on! Of course, with the intuition and intellect you've shown so far, it's no surprise that you hold dear some very myopic stereotypes. But if you wanna play the "college student" card, did you happen to notice who's running that whole Phoenix Mars Lander mission, right now, that's on the surface of Mars? Yeah, it's some undergrads, some graduate students, some professors....Sure, a mission to Mars isn't anywhere near as complex and difficult as F1 racing, but I guess for punters it's not so bad. I imagine, by the same neanderthal throwback-like assumptions you make about other topics, you must assume that being involved with F1 is the pinnacle of human accomplishment. Uh-huh.

Really, though. I'm totally impressed. I'm so impressed that I can't wait for you to ask me out on a date. Really.

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Sounds like someone watched The Matrix one too many times. When do the Morpheus and Zion models come out? Can I get one with green decals?

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Guy, its a new bike frame, it didnt claim to re-invent the whole bike world.........F1 is fairly high up on the technical list, ovbiously going to Mars is higher on the list...............but fella...........what are you on about...........its a bike frame............for cycling..........it wont be and we never said it would be competing at Tour de France.............oh my god.............

Thanks for your views Tony, as Ive always said, this is for research and as of yet, the product is not for sale.
Finally some constructive comments, the price is one side of things that can be looked at. Pedalforce certainly do have very competitive prices, but the frame comes as a frameset, ie with frame/fork/seatpost/headset/clamp etc..........I maybe wrong,please tell me if I am, I think Pedalforce prices on their website are for frame alone.

This frame isnt intended to insult, its good to know what you guys think and expect.
Thanks

Constructive comments please,

George...izzat you?

Will this be offered in a Roi model with high quality Zefiro carbon fiber parts?

Im not quite sure what your asking here? The frame will come as a frameset, ie frame/fork/seatpost/headset/clamp. We currently build Wilier Le Roi with 3T or FSA carbon parts along with SRAM groupsets. The NEO can be offered with either 3T/FSA.
http://s367.photobucket.com/albums/o...AMbuild004.jpg

No thanks. I don't worship your god, you know, the one that copies other people's work, relies on Spam to do his job. Maybe you should direct everyone to Guru or Wilier to have their questions answered.

__________________
Sex is horrid
Pain is Fun
I cut my fingers off
One by one