IRD 10spd Elite wide range cassette with a compact double crank? - Page 2

Once more, no need for a 'hub bub' or any alternative anchor position if you are using a so called '9s' rear derailleur with a set of shimano 10s shifters.

NOT required.

I have instaqlled everything from a 9s Deore MTB rear derailleur to a Sora 8s rear derailleur onto 105, ultegra and DA 10s STI shifter systems and have anchored the cable where you anchor it with a '10s' rear derailleur. There are some alternative type stuff when mixing shimano and Campagnolo shifters and rear derailleurs but not needed if you are using common money.

FWIW. I hope you/(Peter) didn't think that I was saying you couldn't interchange one Shimano rear derailleur for another -- you know, some say that bumblebees should not be able to fly, etc.

I primarily wanted to observe that you made a harmlessly inaccurate statement ... but, if I had simply refuted your remark & made the statement that the various Shimano rear derailleurs did not "have the same dimension" then some of the anal retentives who populate this Forum (we all know who some of them are) would subsequently have wanted 'facts' ...

However, I am still inclined to believe that with the advent of Shimano's 10-speed rear derailleurs, the various rear derailleurs are no longer as compatible as you suggest despite what you say you have observed BECAUSE I believe I have employed a comparable situation whereby I have simply hooked up a 9-speed ERGO shifter to a 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur (normal anchoring) to be used with a 9-speed Shimano cassette ... it definitely works WELL ENOUGH -- the shifting is smooth & the chain is quiet ...

BUT (and, here's the qualifier), there is what I will refer to as a "phantom" cog which is bypassed in the shifting sequence (the 4th from the largest -- aka, the 6th from the smallest ... a less consequential cog in the sequence than some others to me, but perhaps not to someone else) ... so, only 8 of the cogs are "indexed" in a 9x9 Campagnolo-Shimano mismatch vs. a hubbub'd 10x9 Campagnolo-Shimano mismatch which yields all 9 cogs being engaged during the indexing.

Undoubtedly, the reason the casual 9-speed ERGO + 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur & cassette combination "works" is because the space between the chain's plates is much greater than the width of any cog ... in addition to only using 8 of the 9 cogs, it's probably not ideal because the chain is undoubtely not as centered on the upper pulley wheel after the cog is engaged & the pulley wheel may wear out prematurely (or, not ... since it isn't noisey, who knows?). But, unrealized excessive wear on the upper pulley wheel (if there is any ... ) would be a small price to pay to be able to use Campagnolo rather than Shimano shifters for the type roadways (i.e., mountain) that I ride on.

And so, I suspect that if you/(Peter)/anyone were to scrutinize the mis-matched 9-/10-speed Shimano combos that you describe, you may find that EITHER a cog is bypassed OR the chain may "dwell" on one of the cogs in the shifting sequence, depending on what the mis-match happened to be ... maybe, not.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter all that much because while I know that EITHER a hubbub'd 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur OR a 10-speed Shimano rear derailleur works better with a 10-speed Campagnolo shifter + 9-speed Shimano cassette than the less perfect combination of a 9-speed Campagnolo shifter + 9-speed Shimano derailleur/cassette, they all still result in indexing that certainly works effectively; so, the same should/could be true with Shimano shifters ...

Presuming the same occurs with Shimano-Shimano mismatches, the various Shimano rear derailleurs could indeed be declared to be interchangeable ...

NB. I haven't tried it, but I suspect that if you were to take an 8-speed Campagnolo rear derailleur whose anchor point is more mid-parallelogram than on the 9-/10-/11-speed rear derailleurs, that the same, acceptable compatibility could be achieved despite Campagnolo spec'ing one rear derailleur design for their 8-speed ERGO "stuff" and another for the rest ...

I think an important (?) thing to note is that more components are compatible than manufacturers would like the end user to believe.

FWIW. I think the JTEK SHIFTMATE, as clever as it is, is only for those who don't know about the hubbub anchoring when using a 10-speed ERGO shifter, or who don't want to lose the use of one-cog if they have 9-speed ERGO shifters (either the 1998-99 pointy-hooded type, or the subsequent versions [I don't know if there is any difference in how the two 9-speed versions theoretically index]) ...

AND Campagnolo ERGO work great with Sram for shimano/Sram 10s cog spacing BUT the OP was talking about a MTB RD for 10s STI. And my point(last time) was a 9s shimano MTB RD works great with shimano 10s STI w/o any alternative cable anchoring. I don't prescribe mixed shifters/RD because each maker has lots of choices. No need to mix a set of ERGOs and sully it up with a shimano RD.

Last pointy top was 1998 Athena and below. Record and Chorus were rounded top altho the shift innards were the same thruout the line. Last pointy top rhuout was 1997, first year of 9s.
1999 the innards changed again to incorporate ERGOBrain but the shift disc dimensions stayed the same.

LOL!

But, I've been using Shimano rear derailleurs since the CRANE era ...

And, way-back-when, I found the DA front derailleur (circa 1978, I guess -- the one that was introduced with the rear derailleur that had capped teeth on the upper pulley) shifted better (for me, at least) than the NR front derailleur ...

So, it isn't a travesty in-my-mind to use Shimano derailleurs with Campagnolo components.

Okay, thanks -- I obviously wasn't paying enough attention to what Campy was doing in 1997-99, and I thought that only the Record & Chorus had changed to the rounded top levers in 1998 ...

BTW. The only change I see in the 1998-99 vs. 2000+ is the hole drilled in the handle to accommodate the button ... what am I not seeing/remembering?

BTW. I've got a couple of sets of 9-speed Athena shifters, so THAT is why I presumed the pointy topped shifters persisted in 1999, too.

Center section of the shift disc and thru bolt in front, attach bolt in rear, all changed, 1998 to 1999. This makes 1998 9s only, whereas you can convert 1999 thru 2008(Record/Chorus) from 9 to 10 to 8 to 9 to 10..etc.

Okay ... thanks ... without looking at a couple of shifters from the pre-ErgoBrain & ErgoBrain era, side-by-side, I think I understand ...

Take the back plastic cap off. If the plate you see is smooth, no notches, held there by a button head bolt-1998. If the plate has 2 notches(for the ERGOBrain pins) and held there by a 4mm allen head bolt-1998 and after thru 2006. Thru 2008 for Record and Chorus. No ERGO Brain for 2009 As far as I know, good thing.

Thanks.





What! What's not to like?

1) the cadence wire strapped to the downtube
2) the cadence magnet on the crankarm
3) the cost
4) __(other)__

Well, at least the ErgoBrain retains its data when the battery is removed/dead ...

Have the newer FlightDeck heads (which are also made by Cateye) finally added that capability?