gyming to improve power - Page 3

I sometimes wonder whether it would be possible to develop your potential in both sports on the basis of periodisation cycles. I'm only raising the issue seeing as my own training program has become so weird lately, due to necessity.
Not too long ago I quit serious weight-training to focus on cycling. At the start of my cycling training I was pretty unfit but certainly very strong. However, as I rapidly began to drop muscle by cycling, my aerobic conditioning improved dramatically (while my strength in both squats and upper body diminished). In short, my body adapted to the new load placed upon it.
Unfortunately, having reached a real peak in cycling I find myself injured and may well be out of cycling for the rest of the season till my muscle tear heals. Seems like the only logical thing to do is resume weight-training rather than loaf about the house bewailing my fate.
Here it gets weirder. Having resumed weight training I'm piling weight back on my frame since muscle has memory. I'm hoping that the heavy squats e.t.c. will speed up the healing of the tear around my knee as well. But I wonder what will happen when I resume cycling? Will the progress I made on my bike be recovered just as quickly?
That kind of makes me wonder whether it might be possible for somebody to lift heavy in Winter and ride like lightning in Summer?
If I had a choice I'd still be churning out miles in the Summer but sadly I think it will take quite some time till my leg injury mends and I can still get away with squats (although not leg-curls).

That would be kind of cool, but I don't think it's possible. I don't see how anyone could be both a great cyclist and a great bodybuilder or powerlifter. They just seem at such odds with each other.

I have no doubt that - to an extent - they can compliment each other. However, the goals of being good or excellent at both are at opposite extremes of the scale. The weight and size, especially in the upper body, would definitely be a hinderance in pro cycling. It would just be more weight to carry that wouldn't be a part of the engine, so to speak. Some additional leg size/strength at least could be helpful in powering the cranks.

By the way, I'm sorry to hear about your injury. I hope that the squat routine does more to help than to harm. I usually have to lay off an area completely that has been injured. However, YES you are better off to train with weights than to sit around the house watching TV and eating potato chips! Been there, done that!

During the winter months I usually hit the weights and cut way back on the cycling (last winter I prefered the stair climber to cycling just to break up the monotony). I still wear my HRM and do quick supersets between larger muscle groups. I can get PLENTY of cardio work this way. The only downside is I need much more recovery time when lifting than cycling so I can't put the hours in that I could in the summer when mostly cycling.

Within a couple weeks back on the bike I was able to pick up right where I left off the previous fall. I'm certain that if I were to have done indoor cycling on a trainer I would have done much better. Also, a competitive cyclist doesn't need 19" biceps. I guess I don't either but I like having them. Going to shoot for 20" by next spring after about 6 months of winter lifting. Also plan on hitting the quads and hams hard as I should have plenty of new additional blood vessles in the area to help blood flow. It should be quite fun!

This just isn't true, unless you have a functional disability or are e.g., a frail old lady. the force requirements are low to moderate in endurance cycle racing, such that virtually anyone can meet them.

elite endurance cyclists are, on average, no stronger than untrained, sedentary, healthy, age, gender and mass-matched controls.

the average force requirement of *both* legs over each pedal rev can generally be met by anyone. for e.g., approximately, the force required for the *top 5 riders* in the recent Mont Ventoux mountain TT would have been ~ 250 Newtons (or 25 kg). Pretty much anyone can generate that. Obviously, sustaining that for the hour long period is a totally different matter -- but, that's not a strength issue, but to do with the factors that affect endurance performance, such as VO2max, and LT.

ric

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Ric, do you ever feel like you're going round in circles? (I'm not talking about riding a crit)

would that be like a power crank circle where i pull up on the recovery stroke !!!!!!

ric

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Yep, but it also bears some similarity to the circle described when you circuit train at the local gym.

i'll be going round in circles in a crit tomorrow!

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"By the way, I'm sorry to hear about your injury. I hope that the squat routine does more to help than to harm. I usually have to lay off an area completely that has been injured."

I think there just may be some light at the end of the tunnel but I had been feeling pretty fed-up as a result of the injury. Just before the injury caught me by surprise I had raced up a large hill with another rider and led all the way - which made me feel really good about things. I've had injuries that took 8 months to heal (such as rotator-cuff tears). However, now I suspect I may be over this cycling injury very soon.

Don't know about you but I always find there's a period of injury followed by rest. During the rest and healing period the injured area feels weaker and generally worse. Then you need expert timing to start challenging the area with resistance work. If you're lucky, the area will strengthen and you're back in business. I thought I would be out of action all Summer but now I think it may only take a very short time (possibly days)

I know this may sound odd but I really believe my main problem this Summer has been hayfever. I'm a chronic sufferer and my symptoms go way beyond the norm. I get fever, joint pains, itchy eyes, blocked respiration e.t.c. Then, riding way out amongst trees and shrubs gets you in the thick of your allergy as you breathe lungfulls of pollen. The physical onslaught caused by the allergy makes a sufferer more likely to get injured during Summer.

As for the weights, I'm lucky in a sense. I'm one of those rare individuals that can shed muscle easily. I could get on my bike weighing 200 lbs and be down to 170 lbs within no time at all. I can lose muscle easily but losing fat is far more difficult.

I'll let you know how trying to be decent in two opposing activities works out. I recently started training for cycle oregon (4-500 miles in 7 days), the first real cycling training I've ever done. Within a matter of weeks of starting to do longer rides my strength in some of the basic weight exercises I do (bench, clean, squat, pullups and deadlifts) had plummeted. So had my rowing. So now I'm trying to see if I can improve (or at least maintain) in three areas, rowing, cycling and weight training. Its turning out to be extremely difficult. I think that the long rides eat away at ones muscles and make it real difficult to maintain strength (I heard in longer rides you could get from 5-10% of your calories from protein). We'll see how well I can fight it.

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Good luck!

Is the issue here OVERALL weight training or just leg weight training? If you're weak in your CORE or Upper body, I've heard over and over that it will make you more prone to injury.

As a triathlete, it's crucial for me to be "balanced" all over or else one area will suffer but for the pure cyclists, I can't but help think that a LOW intensity, HIGH REP weight problem would help tone and keep you from LOOSING muscles that you already have. It totally makes sense that you don't want to ADD muscle mass for the sake of it, unless you live in San Francisco and have to hit those hills every day!

just my 2cents, very interested as this entire thread is SO different than what I hear in the Tri circles. They all say weight training MANDATORY, year round. Winter time, build some muscle and expand capacity and Summer time purely to maintain balance and tone. Biking doesn't hit ALL muscles. I would think if you ONLY bike you will get VERY strong in the key "bike" muscles but "not strong" (relative of course) elsewhere. That's a recipe for disaster if you need to function doing anything other than biking isn't it?

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Giant OCR2, TRINewbie, GOAL: 100lbs weight loss 100wks.

i don't know of any evidence or reason to support this. in fact i know more people who get injured through weight training than anything else!

for instance, to support yourself on the bike, the forces are exceedingly low. therefore, very little core strength is required. if you *really* needed to increase your core strength to be able to sit on a bike etc., you're just not going to be worried about bike racing or triathlons.

Quote:

As a triathlete, it's crucial for me to be "balanced" all over or else one area will suffer but for the pure cyclists, I can't but help think that a LOW intensity, HIGH REP weight problem would help tone and keep you from LOOSING muscles that you already have. It totally makes sense that you don't want to ADD muscle mass for the sake of it, unless you live in San Francisco and have to hit those hills every day!

you do not need increased muscle mass to ride up hill. the forces are low to moderate. as previously explained several posts above the force between *both* legs would've been about 250 N (~25 kg) to go top 5 on the Mont Ventoux stage. Most/all/anyone can generate that force.

additionally, people sprint harder than they ride for a sustainable period of time. during sprinting or standing starts the forces are highest still and we can already generate these.

Quote:

just my 2cents, very interested as this entire thread is SO different than what I hear in the Tri circles. They all say weight training MANDATORY, year round. Winter time, build some muscle and expand capacity and Summer time purely to maintain balance and tone. Biking doesn't hit ALL muscles. I would think if you ONLY bike you will get VERY strong in the key "bike" muscles but "not strong" (relative of course) elsewhere. That's a recipe for disaster if you need to function doing anything other than biking isn't it?

there's several of us who post the same information in triforums. biking doesn't increase strength, and nor does triathlon. or any endurance sport -- apart from in certain sub sections of the population (e.g., frail old ladies, people with certain functional disabilities).

ric

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i'll need it. i get motion sickness from the circles

thanks

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I think the reason people get injured with weights is due to various factors. Some peoples' knees simply don't suit squatting but the real damage is caused by bouncing. A guy recently told me he had a bad knee and I happened to spot him squatting later on. Little wonder! He was bouncing at the bottom of the rep when what you should do is keep the head up, lower slowly, pause and drive. Squats are also a natural movement unlike leg extensions so the risk of injury is minimal.
The only other thing I should add has to do with gym ego. The reason we attend a gym is to use weights as a tool for progress but some guys get obsessed by how much they can lift. The major mistake I made over the years was to lift too heavy too often. Same applies to the bike since too much intensity leads to injury (part of my problem at present). These days I think it's important to stagger the intense training against easy sessions.

Yes, I agree with you. I've had the same experiences.
Cycling (and all aerobics) are very anti-muscle. The more aerobics you do, the more muscle you may end up losing. Conversely if you put a lot of muscle on you'll be struggling on the bike for sure. The body is simply smart and knows what it needs to do and how it needs to adapt to meet the demands you place on it.
I think that only certain individuals could do both sports with some degree of success. The only reason I might be able to get away with it is because I can drop muscle so quickly and easily. Logic dictates that if you can maintain a certain percentage of aerobic fitness during weight-work, you can possibly drop weights all together at an appointed time, drop the muscle mass off the upper body and peak on the bike.
For many folks it wouldn't work. Some people hold on to muscle but for me I only have to cycle really hard and I lose up to 20 lbs bodyweight in a short period. My strength drops as well as you found in your own case. However, I can get the strength back very quickly by resting on aerobics and intensifying weight work.
The only reason I'm considering the issue is due to my cycling injury so I figure if I have to take a break from bike training I might as well do something to keep myself motivated till I get over the injury and resume bike activity.
Plus I wondered whether muscle has a kind of stamina memory.