Heart Rate @ Lactate Threshold - Page 6

Agreed Frenchy.

I was stating that for serious riders working with a power meter, in most situations, HR data, although being interesting (I am a data freak), is kind of useless.

But your precision is important, because not everyone own a power meter. And not everyone is used to calibrate and analyse their training and racing based on power data.

You mean before my new PM arrives in the mail?

Seriously, that's a bit of a loaded question since you probably know that I use Coggan's schema which is referenced to 40k TT HR, rather than HR @ LT. Based on that, knowing my HR @ LT wouldn't be that useful *to me.* Now, if your device could tell me what my maximal 1hr HR would be, then I would continue merrily along following my training plan with my HRM and the HR guidelines from Coggan's schema.

For a person who isn't set on a particular schema, but buys an HRM and gets baffled by all of the "thresholds" that are thrown around in books, online articles, and training guides (such as aerobic threshold, lactate threshold, anaerobic threshold, etc.) like I did when I bought my HRM, your device would probably be very useful in helping them determine their quality training zone. For example, HR @ LT +/- 5% might be a good Tempo zone for a beginner, and 10% above that might be a good 2x20 zone. Shoot me with it once in January and again each June so I can readjust my zones, observe my body's adaptations, and tweak my training plan from year to year based on results.

Agree. Being somewhat less freakish, I don't wear my HR strap anymore at all.

A simple method of getting a good estimate:

First you should have some idea of the expected value, a range at least.
Choose a relatively flat course, without strong winds.
After a short warmup, push your HR to the expected range, keep high cadence as you do, and start measuring HR.
And now for the test itself: You should be able to feel your muscles and avoid pain completely, while keeping HR as high as possible within the expected range.
Once you start feeling pain, which should happen no earlier than about 40 minutes later, read your average HR over that period.
Mine was 166 which is 90% HR. Later that week I went to the lab and they measured a little bit higher but probably missed the exact spot (I doubt if my LT is higher than 90%HR).

Now here is how I did it in practice:
Set an appointment with your dentist, who is 40 miles away (fixing the broken tooth from your last fall of course).
Leave work too late to meet schedule...
and still be there on time while getting your LT on the way

__________________
Kan Ya Ma Kan...

I looove your method. Nice comment.

This is what I call, good pacing advice.
Cheers

I don't have strong opinion on LT anymore. This stuff is really complicated. I gather as much data as I can, read on it as much as I can, but the more I do, the less I have strong opinions about it.

Again, I don't claim to be an expert, but here's a capsule of my views on LT. First, I think measuring blood lactate as a function of power has been a boon to understanding the physiological response to exercise intensity. Blood lactate is a good proxy for a lot of systems and is easily and cheaply measured. It has led directly to the development of NP and that is huge. NP in turn begat IF and TSS and who knows what to follow. Until we have better (and affordable) measurement technologies for, say, acidosis, it's great. And the transition point in the blood lactate/power curve is an interesting phenomenon and as a cyclist I clearly want to raise that point. But, as a guide to training, it is largely worthless. It's too far out on the power/duration curve (~3hrs). More useful for training and measuring purposes is power at the 30-60 min durations. I don't need to know what my LT is to raise it. I simply have to follow a training regimen that raises my sustainable power. Same thing for mitochondrial density. Just because I can't measure it doesn't mean I can't increase it. So, apart from being appreciative of the advancements in knowledge that have resulted from the ability to measure blood lactate, when I ask myself if it matters whether I know my own lactate transition point (LT), my answer is no. My power/duration curve is sufficient and it would add nothing that would cause me to change how I train or race. Ergo, useless information. Even if I didn't have a PM, I would still use my 1hr max effort HR or RPE (versus a 3hr max effort).

Oh, you are talking about this LT (~3hrs).

I am less interested in splitting the whole lactate threshold continuum anymore.

I see LT as being a wide zone, starting with your definition of LT, up to MLSS, or OBLA or whatever poeple might call it.

IOW, I guess I agree with you in that it has become meaningless for me too. I prefer to focus on how to improve Z3 to 5 (mainly), knowing that this, in turn, will have a beneficial impact on the whole LT continuum.

Technically, LT is not a duration, but rather a point on the blood lactate/exercise intensity curve at which point blood lactate begins to increase at an exponential rate. But, practically speaking, it corresponds with a point on the duration curve and not a very interesting point for me (because it's too far out on the curve). If there were wide differences between individual athletes in the shape of the curve, I would be interested in determining my own personal blood lactate/intensity curve. But, I accept Andy's assertion (based on research data) that this doesn't vary much from individual to individual.

I understand very well, and agree with your definition.

But again, the differences in LT definitions, from one school of thoughts to an other, with the training recipes that come with those heterogeneous definitions, added to the fact that we now better understand the role of lactate in regard to fatigue... all that is very complexe.

IOW, if someone tells me that he has a good workout for LT improvement, by stimulating it with 2X15min at 100% power for those duration, I don't mind. I just translate the term LT, for lets say, MLSS workout. And I know that this workout is actually improving that wide LT continuum anyway.

Just had a nice conversation with my former boss, not long ago. A man of great value, a doctor in something. We were discussing about marathon swimming. He was saying that the ideal training regiment, should not include too much "threshold" sets, as this energy file gets depleted only 45 to 60 min duration. I didn't mind, I just translated again.

I see nothing wrong, in being wrong with those terms.

And training-wise, I don't see that much benefit in understanding 100% every aspect of that domain. I really prefer to focus on the training zones, rather than the lactate threshold continuum per se.

I agree totally. What really matters on a day-to-day basis is at what power do I ride my intervals and how do I measure my progress. Regardless of the definition of LT (and I don't mean to suggest that the scientists are in vast disagreement), it doesn't affect either of those two goals. I'd rather dive deeply into stuff that nobody has invented yet -- even Andy. And, that's a big pond.