Fast Group Rides are Lousy Workouts - Page 3

Just for comparison, Christoph Moreau during the 2004 Tour de France Alpe D'Huez uphill TT did 5.62 w/kg for 43 minutes and placed 20th. Armstrong did 6.38 W/kg during that same TT. That was an all out effort (i.e, no riding before or after). That leads to me believe 20 minutes of 5 w/kg should kill cat 2/3/4/5 up a hill, in a RR. I also have info from a certain study (Padilla, Mujika, Orbananos, Angulo; 1999), that a world class professional cyclist had a measured Wmax of 5.7 watts/kg (his was the lowest in the study). I would expect him to be able to hold 5.2 w/kg (90% Wmax, but fudge that in the pack power is lower, so some extra saved up for the hill) for 20 min during a RR.

-Bikeguy

Exactly. Which is why I said I think it would take something approaching 5 w/kg to "dictate the race pace." I don't think you can do that with 4.5 w/kg. Shake things up maybe, but not dictate the pace.

Given that you said the masters group will be tough, I agree. I know that over here the masters are barely slower than the open elite. I mean like maybe 3% slower.

-Bikeguy

Depends on the race, and who decides to race masters (vs. racing p/1/2). In SoCal there are several masters racers who routinely race p/1/2 at the smaller races, but move to the masters fields when the UCI contenental teams show up.

For example, at the upcoming San Dimas Stage Race, I would anticipate an effort of 5.3+ w/kg or thereabouts will be needed to win the 35 and 45+ divisions in the TT (mainly becuase the really fast 'older' guys tend to race masters at NRC races...the TT is a 14-15 minute hillclimb at that wattage).

At smaller races here in SoCal I'd say your estimate of 5.0w/kg is spot on for a 20 minute effort (at the end of a race) for the 35 and 45+ divisions (perhaps slightly lower for 45+).

Scott

I agree. I don't know who came up with that often-cited statistic about losing power with age, but I think they were smoking something. I keep waiting for these guys to slow down. Oh, well, maybe in my 70s.

In the meantime, I need to make these group rides better workouts. Thanks, guys, for the suggestions. I'm going to put them to work beginning this weekend.

Come on my group ride on Tuesday nights in the summer. You will be taking pulls at 500-600watts when it heats up.

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I agree. There are lots of group rides here in my area. On some of them, I can dictate the pace and pop guys off the back pretty regularly. But I dont really enjoy those rides much and I dont get the best workout.

With other groups, it's all I can do to hang on and if a big push comes, I'm the one getting dropped (but not always) I love these rides. And no question as to the quality of the workout!

Sounds like you ought to pick a different ride.

Cheers

He's talking about 2-3 hour rides. If you have a power file where you're taking turns at 500-600 watts for that duration, then please post it in the Power forum under the power files thread so we can all admire your manly-ness.

Believe the notion that everyone in a club group needs to ride together is a prescription for unnecessary problems. In our club, the group often splits up after the first hour or so. Maybe the strongest three or four will go off the front, the rest drop back when they can no longer hang on, or no longer care to. If someone has the ability and desire to go hard or pull the group, certainly some of us "pack fodder" will take advantage.

Maybe we're an odd club, but it seems to all work out. Club riders will have different abilities, and different objectives for their riding. Of course, if you're talking about a race team training ride, that's a different deal.

I have one more. Use the slowest rolling resistance wise tires possible on your bike. This may be 30-50 watts total delta with two wheels if you are using nice tires currently. Not good for the ego when guys are pulling away uphill but hey, you now have an excuse for yourself.