Strength and cycling controversy - Page 11

I would like to see how their numbers compare across different efforts, like standing starts vs 200m. I know there is a huge difference between my 5 second power in a 200m sprint compared to a short uphill sprint. I'm talking 400watts difference. Standing starts fall somewhere inbetween the two.

Soooooo, Andy, how should we be testing for 5 second power? It is very important to take data from simular situations for accurate comparison on your chart.

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Uphill power can be influenced by the "dead spots" in your pedaling motion when momentum is not there to help you through them. Practice can help here too.

Different riders will find their maximum power for 5 seconds within different ranges of cadence. Some of this will be based on the riders' coordination and technique within those ranges. With practice you may be able to improve your power within certain ranges of cadence.

I am still unhappy about the Anna Mears thing. Thats no way to make friends! My sprints go from 350-400watts 25-28mph ...3 secs later 1500-1550+-. 10 secs later 975-1100+-. the speed will be 37-40mph @150-155 rpm in a 88"gear , and speed doesnt come till the watts are on thier way out. If I were a freak and could make 2000-2400 watts. I would jump in a huge gear . I dont know what the best can do in the top end, but I have to really focus to get any speed. For me peak speed comes in around 6-7 seconds past peak....I have to learn to hold it for another 5 sec. My question, or point was , are there different power profiles that will yeild a similar time. Bos with a 300+meter sprint or Baley with a 250 Both go 10.1 Honestly I have no clue VMan, I used to make more power on the uphill sprints. I make more from a jump on a flat or even a slight downhill now.

Bill,

If I can tell you any piece of advise that might help you here.

Take a look at 100m running sprinters, and how they relax when they hit top speed. Somewhere around the 40m mark. They then try and hang on to this stride as long as possible.

It's the same for bike riding. In a 200m TT, you try to wind it up to a point that will enable you to accelerate to top speed, yet at the same time conserve some energy. After you sit down you should soon be pedalling at your max. It is here where I try to relax and hold the speed. And then as I begin to enter turn 4 try and accelerate again. But if you are fighting it like a squat and your teeth are all clenched then you are losing speed and power.

Now, I don't no how all this correlates to this thread and power ratios vs cadense vs the square root of your ass. But thats how I do it!!

Bill,

If you really want to improve your 200m TT here is some advise.

Watch the 100m runners. They accelerate to 40m, then they relax and simply try and hold stride for the next 40m before gutting it out to the line.

It's the same for bike racing. You slowly acclerate to about 80%, then jump, and soon after you sit down you should be somewhere around your max cadense. Here you relax and try and hold it smoothly, don't fight the bike. And for me once I see turn 4 I try and accelerate again to the line.

Now, I don't know where all this fits in here. And I'am not sure where power vs cadense vs the square root of your ass makes any difference.

But thats how I do it!!

After about 13 seconds of sprinting your power is still around 70% of peak. And you haven't yet done much training to extend your sprint. Interesting.

Consider the watts it takes to maintain 37 mph. It takes more watts to accelerate up to the 37mph. Now if you can be doing your acceleration within your opponent's draft or with some help from banking...

You will see this clearly when you watch a number of riders doing their 200mTT's. Some jump late and very hard, some just wind up gradually over a much longer distance. Some are slowing more than others as they approach the finish. You will have to experiment to see which approach or profile results in your lowest time. You will also have to use different profiles for different opponents.

I think it's because you're getting away from the raw strength you had from lots of lifting and now you are learning how to coordinate your muscles to perform well at fairly high rpm's.

Ya now I am changing to 170s. Rukfrk#*!!

If I were to take those sprints out another 5 secs or so, (as I would need to for the 200) I would most likely be in the 750-850 range...I hope. I will let you know when MR Lazyman fininshes his work. Just for a comparison. I do some high cadence sets after Starts. The cadence is usually in the 190 range. I try to hold it as long as possable 10-12 secs is all I am good for. Power at the very end is about 650. My guess is that a guy like Bos isnt using a 42x17 and is quite a bit higher than 650 at the end of his 200 tt On the flip side to this debate...My guess is that "most" of those top elites have profiles that are similar, and @ nats. and states , you have a greater cross section of athletes and therefore more differeces in power profiles.If you look at elite track and field, the sprinters look like clones. They all explode and look even. Then you have a guy like Carl Lewis that wasnt the best starter, but looked like he had another gear in the 2nd half. Again in track n field, the 200 has been won by both 100/200 meter runners as well as 200/400 meter guys like Micheal Johnson...he was pretty good. If you could develop a power profile for a top 100 runner and a top 400 runner, the profiles would look different, yet they both might be awsome at the 200 as were Lewis(100/200) and Johnson 200/400. The question is : does the ability to choose a gear negate the differences in pesonal ability and make the power profile of a Bos look the same as an Eadie Ok now you can all set me on fire

But this entire discussion has been about the entire population.

Here's some more data from the real-world: my mom is still alive and kicking at more than 80 y of age, despite being a 2+ pack a day smoker her entire adult life. By your logic, this is evidence that smoking doesn't contribute to premature death, even though it is clear from epidemiological studies that it does.

Basically in whatever manner consistently produces the highest value. That is, like VO2max maximal neuromuscular power is a physiological characteristic, and hence within certain limits is indepedent of the means by which it is determined.

To be more specific: to achieve maximal power requires reaching optimal cadence very quickly, before any significant muscle fatigue can develop - IOW, you need to "get on top of the gear" almost immediately. Provided you can do so (e.g., by performing a standing start in a very low gear, e.g., 39x17, or by coasting downhill to build up significant speed before initiating your sprint in a more normal gear), however, the power you produce will be independent of gear selection, whether you're going uphill or downhill, etc. The only thing that really makes a difference is whether you're seated or standing (see http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/s...ing/index.html, in particular Fig. 2 but also the citation at the end of the article). Since the data in the power profiling table came from standing starts, you therefore might want to also using standing data, although in fact the difference isn't so large as to have a huge impact on your "profile".

At least in this case, yes.

See my reply to velomanct re. measuring/determining maximal neuromuscular power.

Only in your mind. The people who do, or may do the events (should) care most about what they need to do to prepare themselves for their best performance, not the entire population. Individual training for individual needs is best.
In the face of clear evidence that shows your opinion to be contrary to the real world examples I provided this is what you come up with. Figures.

IME, this is not true for everyone. We each have cadence ranges where we can produce our highest peak power and from a standing start there will be too much fatigue before some of us get up to the cadence where we can produce our highest peak power.

Or do a standing start in whatever gear you want...makes sense. Roadies that are just interested in ft,np etc..must be alot easier than Warren and I

140 rpm's in the first few seconds off a standing start...? That might be better, but give it a try and I think you'll see that your technique will influence the outcome.